Do You Feel The Church Books Being Stored in Stacks

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

[Tarzan_Geek]

As I've muddled through this thread... and I have TRIED to look at it with a clear mind, something kept nagging at me...it seemed SO familiar...

 

and then I figured it out...

 

Have all of you read this book? If not, you might want to take a look...

 

[nearmint]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

 

How is that relevant? If I were anti-pressing, I would be asking the question at every transaction, regardless of the dealer's reputation in regards to pressing.

[Scheradon]

Why does this thread make think of this commercial?

Because you like to make bad analogies?

Two reasons: 1) Not matter how it's packaged, it's still the same old same old. 2) It's all about being able to have your own choice or opinion.

 

Sure. You have a choice to join or not. It's not complicated. And as a member, you have the chance to voice your opinion any time.

 

The "same old same old" sounds like "staying on message" to me.

 

And speaking of choice, don't you believe in the buyers right to choose whether he wants to lay down bucks for a pressed book or not? That's what this is all about. If you really believe in freedom of choice, then you should have no problem with the Network of Disclosure.

 

I don't have a problem with disclosure. I have a problem with pressing = restoration.

 

Do you also have a problem with 2+2=4? Since they are very similar principles I could understand why.

Bill, if you want to call me or my opinions stupid or say they count for nothing, then at least have the balls to say it outright. What are you going to do with the people who are already members of NOD who believe that pressing isn't restoration? List them in the Gallery Of Disclosure? No wonder your organization has no "traction."

 

Doc, and I call you Doc since I don't know your name, you are right, there are those in NOD who haven't said definitively whether they think pressing is resto.

 

Plain and simple, I disagree profoundly with that ascertion and find it disingenuous at best, stupid at worst.

 

Your opinion, like anyone else's counts for plenty. I just happen to believe to the core of my being that you are either:

 

1. Misinformed

2. Ambiguous

3. Stubborn

 

Or possibly antagonistic for the sake of antagonism? Or think it is "cool" to be with the others who fit any of the above five possibilities.

 

How's that for cahones?

Mr. Ponseti,

 

I find it short sighted at best and insulting at worst that just because I find pressing not to be restoration that I must be either:

 

1. Misinformed

2. Ambiguous

3. Stubborn

4. Antagonistic for the sake of antagonism

5. In it for the "coolness" factor

 

I can assure you that neither of those choices are the case. How about because I don't believe pressing is restoration? However, if I were you, I would poll each of the NOD members and find out who believes that pressing is not restoration, inform them that they are one of the five choices listed above and then collect another $50 from them while slapping them on the back.

 

Come to think of it, from my experience, I could list those same five choices for reasons why people would want to join NOD in the first place.

 

Mr. Watson, you are correct of course, that it is your belief. What I indicated was that I believe the process that led to your belief must have been flawed.

 

I liken it to you and Richard pointing at a rose and calling it a sunflower. Because you "believe" it to be a sunflower does not make it so.

 

I defy anyone, in fact I challenge everyone, to produce one single shred of tangible evidence that introducing heat, moisture, and pressure with a mechanical device to return (restore) a comic book to a previous state, prior to damage occurring, is not a restorative process.

 

I don't think opinions matter in something that is factual. And the paragraph just above this one states FACTS.

 

Now if we all say it shouldn't be noted on a slab, or that it doesn't deserve a purple label, or that it is too tough to detect every time, then great I can understand and perhaps even support those OPINIONS about this form of restoration.

 

 

(thumbs u

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

 

How is that relevant? If I were anti-pressing, I would be asking the question at every transaction, regardless of the dealer's reputation in regards to pressing.

 

I refuse to accept that responsibility. It's up to the seller to disclose any/all alterations done to a book....upfront. This "ASK & I'LL TELL" policy is complete BS. If a seller won't tell me a book was pressed upfront...I really have no reason to believe they'll tell me the truth if I ask.

[nearmint]

Also, in reference to the 2+2 analogy. We can hate the fact that it is true. We would love to add $2 to our $2 and end up with $5 or more. But sadly, we can't. We just can't. So, let's accept the facts and move on. Pretty please?

 

Move on to what? What is the value of accepting your truth if the vast majority of even those who agree with you don't act on that belief?

 

 

[october]

As I've muddled through this thread... and I have TRIED to look at it with a clear mind, something kept nagging at me...it seemed SO familiar...

 

and then I figured it out...

 

Have all of you read this book? If not, you might want to take a look...

 

[MrBedrock]

Come to think of it, from my experience, I could list those same five choices for reasons why people would want to join NOD in the first place.

Ouch!

[selegue]

As I've muddled through this thread... and I have TRIED to look at it with a clear mind, something kept nagging at me...it seemed SO familiar...

 

and then I figured it out...

 

Have all of you read this book? If not, you might want to take a look...

 

I guarantee that book is WWAAYYY too short to bear more than a passing resemblance to this endless pillow fight.

 

Jack

[nearmint]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

 

How is that relevant? If I were anti-pressing, I would be asking the question at every transaction, regardless of the dealer's reputation in regards to pressing.

 

I refuse to accept that responsibility. It's up to the seller to disclose any/all alterations done to a book....upfront. This "ASK & I'LL TELL" policy is complete BS. If a seller won't tell me a book was pressed upfront...I really have no reason to believe they'll tell me the truth if I ask.

 

Then how do you buy any books?

 

The success of any consumer moment is completely dependent on the active participation of the consumers themselves. The idea that every dealer that presses should disclose upfront is noble, but unrealistic. If collectors want a change, they have to make it happen, not simply wait for dealers to have a moral awakening.

[esquirecomics]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

That is a very myoptic view Jeff.

 

I would care to wager that a majority of transactions at shows (or especially in stores and most certainly mail order) with dealers do not even involve the question "is this raw book restored?" Does that mean that it simply doesn't matter?

[MrBedrock]

Mr. Watson, you are correct of course, that it is your belief. What I indicated was that I believe the process that led to your belief must have been flawed.

 

I liken it to you and Richard pointing at a rose and calling it a sunflower. Because you "believe" it to be a sunflower does not make it so.

 

I defy anyone, in fact I challenge everyone, to produce one single shred of tangible evidence that introducing heat, moisture, and pressure with a mechanical device to return (restore) a comic book to a previous state, prior to damage occurring, is not a restorative process.

 

I don't think opinions matter in something that is factual. And the paragraph just above this one states FACTS.

 

Now if we all say it shouldn't be noted on a slab, or that it doesn't deserve a purple label, or that it is too tough to detect every time, then great I can understand and perhaps even support those OPINIONS about this form of restoration.

 

Bill, I admire your fortitude in standing behind your beliefs.

I am also quite impressed at how hard you are bludgeoning everyone with them.

[GACollectibles]

 

I guarantee that book is WWAAYYY too short to bear more than a passing resemblance to this endless pillow fight.

 

Jack

 

Is it a sleepover and we are wearing naughty nighties at this pillowfight?

[esquirecomics]

Mr. Watson, you are correct of course, that it is your belief. What I indicated was that I believe the process that led to your belief must have been flawed.

 

I liken it to you and Richard pointing at a rose and calling it a sunflower. Because you "believe" it to be a sunflower does not make it so.

 

I defy anyone, in fact I challenge everyone, to produce one single shred of tangible evidence that introducing heat, moisture, and pressure with a mechanical device to return (restore) a comic book to a previous state, prior to damage occurring, is not a restorative process.

 

I don't think opinions matter in something that is factual. And the paragraph just above this one states FACTS.

 

Now if we all say it shouldn't be noted on a slab, or that it doesn't deserve a purple label, or that it is too tough to detect every time, then great I can understand and perhaps even support those OPINIONS about this form of restoration.

 

Bill, I admire your fortitude in standing behind your beliefs.

I am also quite impressed at how hard you are bludgeoning everyone with them.

 

Well he is right.

[october]

 

I guarantee that book is WWAAYYY too short to bear more than a passing resemblance to this endless pillow fight.

 

Jack

 

Is it a sleepover and we are wearing naughty nighties at this pillowfight?

 

Go pound sand, geek.

[Transplant]

I have respect for Bill, mainly because he is a fellow Mississippi boy. That doesn't stop me from shuddering at the way that he assumes pressing = restoration is fact. We had this debate about definitions in the last thread. That thread spawned this subtle attempt poking NOD members with a stick. Ad infinitum.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

 

How is that relevant? If I were anti-pressing, I would be asking the question at every transaction, regardless of the dealer's reputation in regards to pressing.

 

I refuse to accept that responsibility. It's up to the seller to disclose any/all alterations done to a book....upfront. This "ASK & I'LL TELL" policy is complete BS. If a seller won't tell me a book was pressed upfront...I really have no reason to believe they'll tell me the truth if I ask.

 

Then how do you buy any books?

 

The success of any consumer moment is completely dependent on the active participation of the consumers themselves. The idea that every dealer that presses should disclose upfront is noble, but unrealistic. If collectors want a change, they have to make it happen, not simply wait for dealers to have a moral awakening.

 

I buy books from those I trust with upfront disclosure. If I buy a book from someone & later find out that they knew the book was pressed when they sold it to me....the "you didn't ask" defense isn't going to cut it.

[MrBedrock]

Mr. Watson, you are correct of course, that it is your belief. What I indicated was that I believe the process that led to your belief must have been flawed.

 

I liken it to you and Richard pointing at a rose and calling it a sunflower. Because you "believe" it to be a sunflower does not make it so.

 

I defy anyone, in fact I challenge everyone, to produce one single shred of tangible evidence that introducing heat, moisture, and pressure with a mechanical device to return (restore) a comic book to a previous state, prior to damage occurring, is not a restorative process.

 

I don't think opinions matter in something that is factual. And the paragraph just above this one states FACTS.

 

Now if we all say it shouldn't be noted on a slab, or that it doesn't deserve a purple label, or that it is too tough to detect every time, then great I can understand and perhaps even support those OPINIONS about this form of restoration.

 

Bill, I admire your fortitude in standing behind your beliefs.

I am also quite impressed at how hard you are bludgeoning everyone with them.

 

Well he is right.

Or not.

[FlyingDonut]

I think how many people think pressing = resto is irrelevant. All that is relevant is how many will align their buying habits with that belief. It's easy to vote on a forum poll on the subject, but how many of those that answered yes, or who proclaim in threads that pressing is resto(and further state that a person would have to be an insufficiently_thoughtful_person to think otherwise) are actually asking every dealer about every book that he/she is interested in?

 

As I've said in previous threads, I've talked to many dealers on this subject, and the uniform answer is that a miniscule number of their transactions include the question "has this book been pressed?" Until that changes dramatically, it simply doesn't matter who thinks pressing is resto and who doesn't.

 

 

 

 

How many of their transactions involve the sale of pressed books without upfront disclosure?

 

How is that relevant? If I were anti-pressing, I would be asking the question at every transaction, regardless of the dealer's reputation in regards to pressing.

 

I refuse to accept that responsibility. It's up to the seller to disclose any/all alterations done to a book....upfront. This "ASK & I'LL TELL" policy is complete BS. If a seller won't tell me a book was pressed upfront...I really have no reason to believe they'll tell me the truth if I ask.

 

Then how do you buy any books?

 

The success of any consumer moment is completely dependent on the active participation of the consumers themselves. The idea that every dealer that presses should disclose upfront is noble, but unrealistic. If collectors want a change, they have to make it happen, not simply wait for dealers to have a moral awakening.

 

I buy books from those I trust with upfront disclosure. If I buy a book from someone & later find out that they knew the book was pressed when they sold it to me....the "you didn't ask" defense isn't going to cut it.

 

Ah, but what if you find out the book is pressed and the dealer didn't know it was pressed? Which happens all the time, I believe. That's why YOU have to ask, because then you can make an informed choice. I you care about pressing, ask the simple question "was this book pressed."

 

The only answers are:

 

1) Yes, it was pressed.

2) No, it wasn't pressed.

3) I honestly don't know.

4) Go fist yourself, NOD weasel.

 

You as the buyer are then informed and can make an effective buying decision - and you as the buyer are in control of the buying decision, not the dealer.

[GACollectibles]

 

I guarantee that book is WWAAYYY too short to bear more than a passing resemblance to this endless pillow fight.

 

Jack

 

Is it a sleepover and we are wearing naughty nighties at this pillowfight?

 

Go pound sand, geek.

 

Right, there isn't a nightie out there that would make you sexy.