Do You Feel The Church Books Being Stored in Stacks

[nearmint]

I still don't understand why undisclosed alterations are the one caveate where some think it's ok to decide for others.

 

Couldn't we say the same thing about you? From where I sit, the hobby has already decided how to handle pressing, and the anti-pressers are a minority that wants to change it.

 

That's a blatant distortion of the facts. That's why I can never take your arguments seriously.

 

Please define "the hobby".

 

 

I already did.

[Red Hook]

But for some reason the people who prefer the results of undisclosed alterations have decided that everyone should fall in line with their preference. Why is that? I can't think of any other area of comic collecting where respect for other's right to choose evaporates so quickly.

 

 

Because on some level, they're threatened by this opposing minority view which, if it was such a minority, would be most practically handled by ignoring it. No one is trying to force anyone to do anything. Another blatant distortion.

 

It's an opposing view.

 

Every time these guys come up with these silly responses, it really hurts their own case. So I love the chance to post with them every time. The arrogance comes through loud and clear.

 

The presumption, that there is some "hobby" out there that's taking care of everyone is baloney. He's talking about CGC (who really doesn't need supporters like these), a handful of dealers and a handful of high end collectors who are scared to death their holdings may eventually be devalued in some way.

 

It's about knowing what's going on, and giving the average collector a choice. Deal with it, guys.

For some reason, I can just picture you in your studio, standing on a dais and rehearsing this speech in front of all your stuffed animals.

 

Is that your idea of a debate point? You've proven my point for me. Thanks.

[Red Hook]

I still don't understand why undisclosed alterations are the one caveate where some think it's ok to decide for others.

 

Couldn't we say the same thing about you? From where I sit, the hobby has already decided how to handle pressing, and the anti-pressers are a minority that wants to change it.

 

That's a blatant distortion of the facts. That's why I can never take your arguments seriously.

 

Please define "the hobby".

 

 

I already did.

 

Where? Again, this is why I can't take your posts seriously. Now comes the evasive phase. Just tell me who you mean by "the hobby". That doesn't seem too difficult.

[nearmint]

Sheesh, Brad. It's just a few posts ago. I define the hobby in this context as those who collect platinum/gold/silver/bronze age, or those books most likely to fall into the possibly pressed category.

[Red Hook]

Sheesh, Brad. It's just a few posts ago. I define the hobby in this context as those who collect platinum/gold/silver/bronze age, or those books most likely to fall into the possibly pressed category.

 

Okay, and how have those people (most of whom still do not have a clear picture of what is going on) decided anything? Where is the mainstream article in the collecting press that covered the issues? Where is the high profile seller who will append the information to his auctions that some of his books have been pressed?

 

Amazing how you've digested the facts and come up with your final solution.

 

"The hobby has decided!"

 

The hobby, for the most part, doesn't have a clue. And in every poll on these boards, among folks that have more of a clue....there is a clear majority who want it disclosed and a nice big fact chunk of collectors who have real concerns about it being a form of restoration. You're just choosing to ignore the facts and attempting to sweep the whole thing under the carpet.

 

That's not going to happen.

[Red Hook]

are "pressed" in the way we use the term "pressing" in the various "pressing threads"?

 

imho, partially. I do not think flaws were necesserally pressed out, but the way they were stacked certainly is not far removed from the flat pressing, and lended itself to making the books nice and fresh..similar to what a light pressing might do.

 

Many view the storage methods of the Church books too similar to flat pressing and that is why pressing does not bother them. The results are obviously different, as is the intent behind pressing intentionally. Which lies at the heart of many peoples dislike of pressing. But either process is not altogether that unsimilar, just the results.

 

Ze-

 

Quick question Ze. How many raw Church books have you held in your hands and closely examined?

[DrWatson]

But for some reason the people who prefer the results of undisclosed alterations have decided that everyone should fall in line with their preference. Why is that? I can't think of any other area of comic collecting where respect for other's right to choose evaporates so quickly.

 

 

Because on some level, they're threatened by this opposing minority view which, if it was such a minority, would be most practically handled by ignoring it. No one is trying to force anyone to do anything. Another blatant distortion.

 

It's an opposing view.

 

Every time these guys come up with these silly responses, it really hurts their own case. So I love the chance to post with them every time. The arrogance comes through loud and clear.

 

The presumption, that there is some "hobby" out there that's taking care of everyone is baloney. He's talking about CGC (who really doesn't need supporters like these), a handful of dealers and a handful of high end collectors who are scared to death their holdings may eventually be devalued in some way.

 

It's about knowing what's going on, and giving the average collector a choice. Deal with it, guys.

For some reason, I can just picture you in your studio, standing on a dais and rehearsing this speech in front of all your stuffed animals.

 

Is that your idea of a debate point? You've proven my point for me. Thanks.

This moved past a debate a long time ago. It has become nothing more than a giant he said she said with the two sides, if you will, doing nothing more than drifting further and further apart and losing sight of the real reason that we are all involved in this hobby to begin with.

[nearmint]

Sheesh, Brad. It's just a few posts ago. I define the hobby in this context as those who collect platinum/gold/silver/bronze age, or those books most likely to fall into the possibly pressed category.

 

Okay, and how have those people (most of whom still do not have a clear picture of what is going on) decided anything? Where is the mainstream article in the collecting press that covered the issues? Where is the high profile seller who will append the information to his auctions that some of his books have been pressed?

 

Amazing how you've digested the facts and come up with your final solution.

 

"The hobby has decided!"

 

The hobby, for the most part, doesn't have a clue. And in every poll on these boards, among folks that have more of a clue....there is a clear majority who want it disclosed and a nice big fact chunk of collectors who have real concerns about it being a form of restoration. You're just choosing to ignore the facts and attempting to sweep the whole thing under the carpet.

 

That's not going to happen.

 

As I said in another thread, the argument that the hobby doesn't have a clue has outlived its validity. We have NOD now, there have been SCOOP! articles about the definition of resto that were chock-full of into about pressing, this year's Overstreet had several mentions of pressing in market reports, and if you Google "comic book restoration", the first site that comes up is Matt Nelson's, and the first service listed on his homepage is pressing. Not to mention all the info on the boards.

 

And if you really believe the word hasn't got out, why isn't NOD doing a better job of making that happen? Why isn't it setting up at shows? Why isn't it at least handing out flyers at shows? Who's wearing the "ask the question" T-shirts?

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

[Red Hook]

But for some reason the people who prefer the results of undisclosed alterations have decided that everyone should fall in line with their preference. Why is that? I can't think of any other area of comic collecting where respect for other's right to choose evaporates so quickly.

 

 

Because on some level, they're threatened by this opposing minority view which, if it was such a minority, would be most practically handled by ignoring it. No one is trying to force anyone to do anything. Another blatant distortion.

 

It's an opposing view.

 

Every time these guys come up with these silly responses, it really hurts their own case. So I love the chance to post with them every time. The arrogance comes through loud and clear.

 

The presumption, that there is some "hobby" out there that's taking care of everyone is baloney. He's talking about CGC (who really doesn't need supporters like these), a handful of dealers and a handful of high end collectors who are scared to death their holdings may eventually be devalued in some way.

 

It's about knowing what's going on, and giving the average collector a choice. Deal with it, guys.

For some reason, I can just picture you in your studio, standing on a dais and rehearsing this speech in front of all your stuffed animals.

 

Is that your idea of a debate point? You've proven my point for me. Thanks.

This moved past a debate a long time ago. It has become nothing more than a giant he said she said with the two sides, if you will, doing nothing more than drifting further and further apart and losing sight of the real reason that we are all involved in this hobby to begin with.

 

That's a nice thought. But whenever someone whips out the "real reason that we are all involved in this hobby to begin with" line....then I know the person spouting has a field a vision on this thing about has wide as a gnat's left testicle. Dude, it's a nostolgic trip down memory lane for some, for some a form of OCD, and for many it's a business and a cash cow. And a zillion other things. It's not one thing to everyone.

 

When the nostogists run up against the opportunists, guess who loses, every time. When the average collector runs up againt the honed business operator you can forget about sitting out on the stoop and "talkin' comics".

 

There isn't a person on these boards who has a fonder association with comics than I do. I started collecting in the sixties, and part of my life's work has been heavily influence by the art that I came in contact with. Why do you think I feel as strongly as I do? What horrifies me most are the manipulative operations of those that see these books as another way to artificially pad their pockets.

 

My position is simple. Leave the books alone, unless they are truly in need of conservation. And if you must press the books to squeeze out a few more dollars (in some cases a LOT of dollars) than respect your customers enough to let them know what you did, and at least have the cahones to stand behind your work and your actions.

 

 

[Red Hook]

[

 

As I said in another thread, the argument that the hobby doesn't have a clue has outlived its validity. We have NOD now, there have been SCOOP! articles about the definition of resto that were chock-full of into about pressing, this year's Overstreet had several mentions of pressing in market reports, and if you Google "comic book restoration", the first site that comes up is Matt Nelson's, and the first service listed on his homepage is pressing. Not to mention all the info on the boards.

 

And if you really believe the word hasn't got out, why isn't NOD doing a better job of making that happen? Why isn't it setting up at shows? Why isn't it at least handing out flyers at shows? Who's wearing the "ask the question" T-shirts?

 

 

The hobby as a whole doesn't have a clue. It will eventually. I'm not a spokesman for NOD. As I assume you are not a spokesman for CGC and the big dealers, right?

 

As for Matt Nelson, the first time I see him listing which books he's selling have been pressed, then you'll be able to make a real point. Until then, you're just spouting reactionarism. You have a personal thing with several NOD members. Take it up with them.

 

Finally, I'd like to suggest a T-shirt design for you:

 

"Go back to Sleep"

[DrWatson]

Remember your blood pressure Brad.

[The Black Hand ®]

Mine's 118 over 78, but I excercise and eat right and maintain an ideal weight. Of course I've never measured my BP while in on one of these pressing discussions...so who knows.Let's all measure our bp before and after a pressing thread and see what happens.

[nearmint]

[

 

As I said in another thread, the argument that the hobby doesn't have a clue has outlived its validity. We have NOD now, there have been SCOOP! articles about the definition of resto that were chock-full of into about pressing, this year's Overstreet had several mentions of pressing in market reports, and if you Google "comic book restoration", the first site that comes up is Matt Nelson's, and the first service listed on his homepage is pressing. Not to mention all the info on the boards.

 

And if you really believe the word hasn't got out, why isn't NOD doing a better job of making that happen? Why isn't it setting up at shows? Why isn't it at least handing out flyers at shows? Who's wearing the "ask the question" T-shirts?

 

 

The hobby as a whole doesn't have a clue. It will eventually. I'm not a spokesman for NOD. As I assume you are not a spokesman for CGC and the big dealers, right?

 

As for Matt Nelson, the first time I see him listing which books he's selling have been pressed, then you'll be able to make a real point. Until then, you're just spouting reactionarism. You have a personal thing with several NOD members. Take it up with them.

 

Finally, I'd like to suggest a T-shirt design for you:

 

"Go back to Sleep"

 

Do you have any valid points to make about my post?

 

Brad, you should have been at the NOD panel in San Diego in '06. 70,000 people received convention programs with this panel listed. The panel was held on Saturday, the busiest day of the convention, with 25,000+ people on that day alone. How many showed up for the NOD panel? 30...maybe 35? And the worst part, I didn't see a single face that I didn't recognize. Not one. It was all the usual suspects, the CGC guys, the Heritage guys, Matt Nelson, Bedrock and a few other dealers, and board members. That was it. Where were these masses ignorant of undisclosed pressing?

 

They either don't exist, or they don't give a damn. They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

[DrWatson]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

[Paratrooper]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

 

LIAR! That's not what you PM'd me last week.

[DrWatson]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

 

LIAR! That's not what you PM'd me last week.

You're special, Vaughn.

[The Black Hand ®]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

 

I admire her transition from adult films to mainstream, even if all she plays are pouty, tough women.

[DrWatson]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

 

I admire her transition from adult films to mainstream, even if all she plays are pouty, tough women.

She can sing too.

[Paratrooper]

They'd rather be at the Traci Lords signing on the convention floor.

Who wouldn't. Personally, I find Traci Lords more attractive than any of you guys.

 

LIAR! That's not what you PM'd me last week.

You're special, Vaughn.

 

I now me spesial