CGC's Golden Age grading. An outrage?

[rob_allan]

Well, I'm going to ask an honest question here based upon a couple of the posts I've seen (most notably JiveTurkeyMoFo's):

 

Is it generally accepted that the old label books are graded "tighter" than the new label books? How many of us feel that way?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

I think there has been that perception...but, I have bought a few old label's, cracked them to read, then resubmitted, and none have come back higher, a couple the same, and a couple .5 lower (maybe due to my handling?)...

so, again, this just further obfuscates the issue (for you, crowzilla!)

gator

 

obfuscates

[action1kid]

The golden age curve is a rumor. I have never heard anyone substantiate it!

Certainly not CGC...With that said I feel you have the right to express any comic related opinion you wish on these boards.I dont agree with you on the Goldenage curve but you have a right to express your thought here.

[Hepcat]

Comicdonna:

 

Why don't you go to the other COUNTLESS boards instead of THESE boards?

 

Actually, I think I'll stay. I'll count annoying you as a side benefit.

 

Sal:

 

hepcat is a shill for whom, i wonder?

 

any guesses? the only newbies who come spouting off like this are shills who can't let go of their agendas. most real newbs don't know enough about CGC to have a full-blown opinion like this.

 

I'm only a relative newbie to posting on this board. I've been collecting comics, cards, model kits, bottles and other junk since 1979. I'm also an experienced poster on discussion boards.

 

Shilling isn't my style. I'm actually much better at offending others - in this case the CGC fan club, upon which I seem to have inadvertently stumbled.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jeffro.]

Paratrooper:

 

Do you or do you not agree with loosening grading standards for Golden Age comics? Either deal with the topic or post elsewhere.

 

To my knowledge, CGC doesn't publish their grading criteria. If that's true then how can you say there is a widely rumored GA grading bump?

 

It may or may not exist, but none of us know for sure.

 

[The Black Hand ®]

The golden age curve is a rumor. I have never heard anyone substantiate it!

Certainly not CGC...With that said I feel you have the right to express any comic related opinion you wish on these boards.I dont agree with you on the Goldenage curve but you have a right to express your thought here.

 

I'm glad someone said this. (thumbs u

I , myself, do believe there is a GA curve, but it's pretty much academic at this point. It would be way to difficult to try and adjust something like that. It makes absolutely no difference to me that a GA vg/fine is comparable to a modern age g/vg. I only collect GA and I try to pay as little as possible. It's all factored in and has been around since the early days of the hobby. It's not a cgc conspiracy. Having said that, I think freedom of expression must be stubbornly protected on these boards... fiercly guarded, so that the problems in the hobby that do need to be solved, are always open to debate.

[drbanner]

Indeed, this topic has been discussed at length on these boards, as in this thread.

 

Here's my

 

I believe the apparent differences in grading standards has more to do with the physical construction of the book than the age of the book.

 

For example, on an otherwise NM book, what do you think the grade falls to with a 1/4" corner crease for an early GA (big!) book, a SA book, a Modern, and what about a Treasury? Is the affect on the grade related to the absolute magnitude of the crease, or the relative magnitude? I think it's the relative magnitude.

 

In addition to size differences, there are also differences in the quality of the paper and ink layers, the printing/production method (squarebounds, page count, # of staples), how the materials degrade, and numerous other factors which make the set of defects (and their affect on grade) for each genre/age unique.

 

Some argue that grading standards should not change based on age, but the reality is that the set of defects which must be considered when assigning a grade is different from book to book (mostly due to the age, but not by definition), so by necessity, the grading criteria is different.

[Crowzilla]

so, again, this just further obfuscates the issue (for you, crowzilla!)

gator

 

Aww, you do like me -

[whomerjay]

The golden age curve is a rumor. I have never heard anyone substantiate it!

Certainly not CGC...With that said I feel you have the right to express any comic related opinion you wish on these boards.I dont agree with you on the Goldenage curve but you have a right to express your thought here.

 

I'm glad someone said this. (thumbs u

I , myself, do believe there is a GA curve, but it's pretty much academic at this point. It would be way to difficult to try and adjust something like that. It makes absolutely no difference to me that a GA vg/fine is comparable to a modern age g/vg. I only collect GA and I try to pay as little as possible. It's all factored in and has been around since the early days of the hobby. It's not a cgc conspiracy. Having said that, I think freedom of expression must be stubbornly protected on these boards... fiercly guarded, so that the problems in the hobby that do need to be solved, are always open to debate.

 

It's undeniable that there is an age-factor curve, as well as pedigree curves in CGC's grading. I believe statements by CGC folks on these boards confirm this. It's incredibly obvious when stacking books up from different eras side by side. Ask anyone who submits lots of books ranging from GA to MA and they have already internalized the difference in criteria for the different ages. For example, a small CB crease on a modern typically sends the book to 9.2 or less, yet it remains a 9.4 on SA, and if the only flaw on a GA could be 9.6 or above. I've seen plenty of GA with some fairly significant creases, particurlay in the ULH or LLH corners, get 8.0-9.2, whereas such a flaw in a SA would never get above 6.0.

 

I for one think grading criteria should apply consistently through the ages, as I am quite comfortable with a 6.0 book being ultra-high grade in GA, or a 4.5 being a great grade for a certain title/issue. No need to introduce curves or wild card variables into the grading and have us guess why an obviously flawed book gets a high grade. It's not about conspiracies, it's simply about CGC making the grading more complicated than it should be.

 

20 years ago we all read the OS guide and understood the logic of the statement so clearly made in the grading section: "age is not a factor in the grading." (sic)

 

And yes, Sal is right, the original poster is a shill just trying to stir some spoon up.

[Hepcat]

What is this? Do you fellows even know the neaning of the word "shill"?

 

Try this one:

 

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.'Shill' can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

 

So whose products/services could I possibly be promoting? All I've done is question CBG's more liberal grading of older comics. Have you all been drinking with Sal in his mother's basement or what?

 

 

[Paratrooper]

What is this? Do you fellows even know the neaning of the word "shill"?

 

Try this one:

 

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.

 

So whose products/services could I possibly be promoting? All I've done is question CBG's more liberal grading of older comics. Have you all been drinking with Sal in his mother's basement or what?

 

 

You're a tool. Add that to the list of things I've called you in in this thread.

[Dick Pontoon]

Am I in the Gold forum or General?

[rob_allan]

Am I in the Gold forum or General?

 

This is the watercooler fool.

[Ivanko]

What is this? Do you fellows even know the neaning of the word "shill"?

 

Try this one:

 

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.'Shill' can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

 

So whose products/services could I possibly be promoting? All I've done is question CBG's more liberal grading of older comics. Have you all been drinking with Sal in his mother's basement or what?

 

 

1. Shill or troll, you pick.

 

2. Why question something that you care nothing about? You don't like slabbed books which is why you crack them out of the slabs (which, by the way, you're not the first and not the last).

 

3. What's so wrong with drinking? That's the third negative statement you've made regarding alcohol; it IS possible to drink without being an alcoholic.

[Comicdey]

Comicdonna:

 

Why don't you go to the other COUNTLESS boards instead of THESE boards?

 

Actually, I think I'll stay. I'll count annoying you as a side benefit.

 

Sal:

 

hepcat is a shill for whom, i wonder?

 

any guesses? the only newbies who come spouting off like this are shills who can't let go of their agendas. most real newbs don't know enough about CGC to have a full-blown opinion like this.

 

I'm only a relative newbie to posting on this board. I've been collecting comics, cards, model kits, bottles and other junk since 1979. I'm also an experienced poster on discussion boards.

 

Shilling isn't my style. I'm actually much better at offending others - in this case the CGC fan club, upon which I seem to have inadvertently stumbled.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just what we need..someone else that likes to offend others.

 

You're part of the CGC fan club whether you know it or not by being here.....welcome to the boards.

 

I agree all books should be graded equally. There is the bias towards the GA only in that there is more of them to grade, pages, size, etc. Not sure if you're right in the conspiracy part.....but hey, consistency is what we're looking for....grading is an art.......and with your board postings, I'd say you are a bit artsy yourself.

 

Grade on

 

[Hepcat]

Ivanko:

 

1. Shill or troll, you pick.

 

I'll pick troll - and join the brotherhood that's accused me of being a shill for something or other.

 

2. Why question something that you care nothing about? You don't like slabbed books which is why you crack them out of the slabs (which, by the way, you're not the first and not the last).

 

Actually I do care. I don't think grading standards should be loosened for older books. It's a slippery slope.

 

3. What's so wrong with drinking? That's the third negative statement you've made regarding alcohol; it IS possible to drink without being an alcoholic.

 

Only twice in this thread but if you check carefully you'll find that I wasn't the one to breach the subject of drinking. I picked up on the theme to retaliate against the harassment of a fellow "troll", if I may borrow your nomenclature.

 

I didn't of course come here to discuss drinking, just comics, but somehow I got sidetracked. But then again we both know full well to expect that kind of thing on the boards.

 

Comicdey:

 

Just what we need..someone else that likes to offend others.

 

Well if it's going to happen anyway, I might as well embrace that part of myself. They tell me it's healthy.

 

You're part of the CGC fan club whether you know it or not by being here.....welcome to the boards.

 

Thank you. I'll have to reread the thread. You might be the first poster to welcome me instead of calling me names. A refreshing change.

 

....and with your board postings, I'd say you are a bit artsy yourself.

 

Artsy?! Well I did write a couple of sonnets three or so years ago just because I was tired of reading the drivel that was being posted as poetry on another board - but I really am more of a numbers type of guy. Of course, other people just say I'm a curmudgeon and leave it at that.

 

 

Cool! I finally found the smilies on this board. Now where are the nudie pics?

[Comicdey]

babe test thread

[Ivanko]

Ivanko:

 

2. Why question something that you care nothing about? You don't like slabbed books which is why you crack them out of the slabs (which, by the way, you're not the first and not the last).

 

Actually I do care. I don't think grading standards should be loosened for older books. It's a slippery slope.

 

Is there evidence that standards have been loosened (I don't mean testimonials)?

 

Besides, all CGC is is an opinion. If the only opinion you trust is your own, what does it matter when you look at an 8.5 slabbed book and in the Hepcat grading system gives it a 9.0? Seriously, what is this apocolyptic slippery slope if you don't agree with their grading (which is everyones right)?

 

[Sal]

What is this? Do you fellows even know the neaning of the word "shill"?

 

Try this one:

 

A shill is an associate of a person selling goods or services or a political group, who pretends no association to the seller/group and assumes the air of an enthusiastic customer.'Shill' can also be used pejoratively to describe a critic who appears either all-too-eager to heap glowing praise upon mediocre offerings, or who acts as an apologist for glaring flaws.

 

So whose products/services could I possibly be promoting? All I've done is question CBG's more liberal grading of older comics. Have you all been drinking with Sal in his mother's basement or what?

 

 

Boy, I wish I seen this earlier. The word "shill," as it pertains to this board, is defined as "a multiple account created by a member." This board has its fair share of people who seem to need to make "shill accounts" time and time again.

 

Typically, said accounts are created for the purpose of being a tool, while maintaining the freedom to post with a separate account. "Being a tool" can often be described as "making baseless and inflammatory accusations out of the blue with no evidence, and then when being called on it, come up with some pathetically lame crack about moms and/or basements." Might sound familiar.

[Hepcat]

Sal:

 

Might sound familiar.

 

Sorry. I don't have time to check your posts right now.

 

 

[agro23]

You're still here?