IMPORTANT POST TO CGC WAS NOT ANSWERED BY THEM

[ablue]

A few days ago I posted to the "ASK CGC FORUM" an important question that I felt needed to be answered. This was my post. "I have a question regarding your grading standards. Why is it that many books that came back as a purple restored label and then re-submitted can often be re graded as an unrestored copy? Also why is it that many books graded as an 9.0 get re-submitted come back higher or even a lower grade even if the books submitted were in there original condition? I feel that if we are paying this company to grade our books and you are proffessional graders you should be consistant in your grading since you are dealing with peoples investments. Why should the customers be worried if your graders have an off day or wonder WHO will be there that week in order to pull a better grade than the last grader the following week?? This should not be relavent as proffesionals you should be very consistant. One other question. When concluding for example a grade of restored cleaned and pressed are you 100% sure this book is restored? as it is almost impossible to be sure even Susan Cicconi states it is not possible to prove for sure if a book has had it's cover cleaned. If you are not 100% positive and don't have the positive proof then you should not make a guess as to its apparent grade. Only when positive proof is available should you then make that decision. I posted this and was never returned a comment so I thought I would let you all see what I asked

[snizzenfixit]

I think I can get a pretty good idea why it wasn't answered in the "ask CGC" forum. The wording is a bit inflammatory. If you poke a bear with a stick, he isn't likely to want to play.

 

Phil

 

[Darthdiesel]

Let me try to answer it in as inflammatory a manner:

 

IMPORTANT POST TO CGC WAS NOT ANSWERED BY THEM

Important to who? You? Definitely not to CGC...or me

 

A few days ago I posted to the "ASK CGC FORUM" an important question that I felt needed to be answered.

Well hold the phone! Let me drop everything I'm doing now to get this answered.

 

This was my post. "I have a question regarding your grading standards. Why is it that many books that came back as a purple restored label and then re-submitted can often be re graded as an unrestored copy?

Is this true? Have you experienced this first hand or are you like a lemming and following all the anti CGC propaganda that CI and others spout about inconsistent CGC grading? Please post a before and after hi res scan of said book in purple and then blue label??? Proof is in the pudding

 

Also why is it that many books graded as an 9.0 get re-submitted come back higher or even a lower grade even if the books submitted were in there original condition?

Lower: Maybe it was damaged by the person (who couldn't live with CGCs grading of what he thought was 2 grades higher, wanting a better grade so he can sell his damaged piece of junk for more - pretty shady character IMO) in breaking it out of the sealed holder improperly.Or damaged in resending to CGC??? Please consider that as a factor.

 

Higher: Maybe because this time around one of the 3 final graders changed their vote by 0.2 thus swaying the average and final grade?

 

I feel that if we are paying this company to grade our books and you are proffessional graders you should be consistant in your grading since you are dealing with peoples investments.

This is an investment? It can be, but primarily it is a grading service and if the book comes back to you in holder with a graded label then I believe CGC has done their job. You may have overpaid for it at a "con" (notice the irony in that abbreviation) from some charismatic dealer that can sell modern CGC 9.4 Daredevils at $100 a pop...and you fell for it. Don't take it out(transference?) on CGC?

 

Why should the customers be worried if your graders have an off day or wonder WHO will be there that week in order to pull a better grade than the last grader the following week?? This should not be relavent as proffesionals you should be very consistant.

You are very disrespectful here IMO. I don't know about any other submitters, but this line of thinking doesn't even cross my mind when submitting my higrades for slabbing? It is just evidence that you've read too many of the anti CGC posters words here and actually believes it. I don't check to see if Steve Borock and Scott Talmadge are on vacation before I submit my prescreens and standard submissions. I wait for Paul Litch to be there for my underground Cherry books but that's because it's his only chance to look at a naked girl and I'm doing him a favor

 

 

As for the restoration part of the question/clean and pressing, I'm sure they made that call. You can live with it by keeping the book/investment and passing it on as restored, or break it out and keep it in your collection.

 

Do you honestly think they would answer a borderline attack on the way they conduct business and say "Ablue, you are sooooo right! Sorry for doing a bad job since 2000...we will shut down now because we are such amateurs here!"

 

DUH DUH and triple DUH!

 

[cd4ever]

And they didn't answer that???

Shocking!! And you asked it in such a friendly, non-confrontational manner!

 

I don't know enough about restoration to speak to that part of it but as far as grading the same book differently....CGC states on their labels that they do not guarantee the grades they give and that grading is subjective. To expect the company to give the exact same grade to the exact same book everytime they see it is ridiculous. I couldn't do it, you couldn't do it and neither can the employees at CGC. I would certainly hope for consistency and I would like for them to come as close as possible as much as possible. But comic grading is not a science, it's an opinion based on some pre-defined criteria. The varying nature and degrees of such things as creases, spine stress, wear, page color, eye-appeal, etc make absolutes impossible.

 

Wow, that may be my longest post ever. I better shut up now.

 

[ablue]

Darth you have no class whatsoever! you thrive on CGC to overprice your books so YOU can CON others!!!

[ablue]

I did not state that I felt they were defrauding anyone! I only asked a question and I personally have that right if it was viewed as an attact well that was not ment to be as one. I was only asking them a question. And DARTH You realy need to speak with a little more respect to others and not censor or curse them for asking a question!

[ArAich]

you thrive on CGC to overprice your books so YOU can CON others

 

Since when did CGC ever Price a book...

[Guest]

why is everything bold?!?!?

[ablue]

What I ment was because of the fad generated by slabbing a book and the value rising upwards to 30x guide on moderns of course Darth will support that cause and anyone who questions it is deemed a (BLEEP) as Darth would call me. Look I just posted what I asked. That's It! I don't plan to be on this soap opera and defend myself.

[ArAich]

Look I just posted what I asked. That's It! I don't plan to be on this soap opera and defend myself.

 

If you post it you should defend it, otherwise why do so. While I do agree that Darth was out of line to use deleted expletives when addressing you he has submitted a valid arguement in response to your scathing accusations at CGCs bussiness practices.

Maybe you should answer his post in a line by line format as he did so that you can validate your point of view.

[Darthdiesel]

Darth you have no class whatsoever! you thrive on CGC to overprice your books so YOU can CON others!!!

 

You've got me summed up in a nutshell...your post was so full of innuendo that no business would feel right in answering you.

 

 

[Darthdiesel]

ablue - I apologize for the BLEEPs and expletives. Araich is right that it is unprofessional. You have every right to question, but your style just brought up such bile in me as it showed that you were just following along in the anti CGC hype. I will go back and fix the bleeps and insufficiently_thoughtful_person references but you should really realize that your post in its scathing fashion would most likely not be answered. Posting here because it wasn't answered inthe correct Ask CGC forum shows that you have something to prove, as wrong as it is.

 

Araich...thanks for pointing out my immaturity. Monkey see, monkey do...

[Darthdiesel]

Ablue and Araich - I rewrote it so as to tone down my reply. If it is still out of line and "wrong" araich, I trust your call there. I still disagree with ablue on this one, and I left the sarcasm in for emphasis.

 

I need to work on expressing my opinion without expletives, but most posters here, including myself have received such reprimands to our posts, but can deal with it. I admit I'm wrong in my choice of words to express my opinion but ablue, your intentions here are obviously not as honorable as you think and youseem to come across pointing the finger at CGC.

 

Reread and lmk what you think...

[ArAich]

 

Looks squeaky clean....

[murph0]

So why are you bringing it up at all then if you don't want anyone to talk about it at all? And what evidence do you have of books with restored labels being resubmitted for unrestored ones? Never heard that one before..couldn't have been an overexageration now could it..anyways, what does it matter to you? You don't care about restored versus unrestored or are "cleaned comics no longer the way to go"?

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

Well, I am still waiting for replies to two quesitons for some time. The second question is completely uninflammatory and very simple. "How do you define a File Copy". That was it. I cannot believe that this info is considered priveleged or even would subject CGC to some form of unwanted obligation.

[murph0]

I asked them about 50 questions, the lightest of which being if you can send in 2 seperate shipments to constitute the 100 books needed for pre-screening. They seem to avoid any issues, and only post soft ball questions or questions that can easily be answered privately or by looking at info on their website.

 

Brian

[comicinvestor-migration]

Before Darth and his Band of Slabbies get too riled up, here's what I had to say previously about CGC restored books coming back unrestored"

 

These are FALSE-POSITIVES for MINOR COLOR TOUCH only.

 

Get it? An original one-owner collection is sent to CGC, and 3 out of the 100 come back restored (Slight A - Speck of Color Touch). The owner knows they're not restored, so re-subs and they come back clean.

 

I was never talking about restored comics coming back unrestored, but mistakes made the other way being corrected.

[ablue]

restored comics that have slight restoration such as a clean or minor color touch have come back unrestored when re submitted.

My question is if there is not enough proof to justify a grade such a cleaned cover

which there never is 100% of the time a grade just cant be guessed because someone feels it has the work done unless there is absolute proof of that work there.

Just like when you have a replacement of a missing piece or color touch that is evident.

But something so minor is almost impossible to tell so how can you give an apparent grade if there is not 100% proof of that work being done?

Also what is it with this restoration removal business?? if a book is restored it is restored.... removing restoration and then having the book re submitted as an unrestored is wrong this is just as bad as not disclosing a restored book to a customer as work was originally done to it and that will never change. MURPH0 I can always count on your posting your 2cents worth!! CLEANED IS THE WAY TO GO!!!

[murph0]

Ah so once again you have managed to create another post to tie in with your passion for restored cleaned comics. Good luck on that campaign buddy, they are restored and will continue to receive such grades.

 

Brian