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Collecting Undergrounds: Starting out

Started by Fandango,

64 posts in this topic

Fandango

Fandango

Posted
Posted

Underground comics (or comix as they are termed within the UG collecting community) don’t get a great deal of coverage here on the boards and I suspect that those who may have considered snapping a few of these counterculture books are put off by the comparative lack of available information for the genre when compared to more mainstream comic collecting channels. As a consequence, I thought I’d start a thread sharing what little I’ve managed to glean in the 2 years I’ve actively been collecting these books, inviting others to participate in the hope of generating a little interest\disclosure in this history rich, oft neglected area of hobby.

 

For those of you who are interested in learning a little more about the origins of the underground comix movement, lambiek.net offers a terrific (illustrated) synopsis here:

 

http://lambiek.net/comics/underground.htm

 

My interest in undergrounds was peaked quite by chance after coming back into the hobby after an extended absence of 15 years or so; shortly after joining the boards I busied myself researching a list of must own, influential books and stumbled across the name Robert Crumb. Like many, I’d seen and enjoyed Terry Zwigoff’s documentary on Crumb and found myself wanting to own a few of his books (quickly placing Zap #0 firmly at the top of my wants list):

 

 

To shorthand the many lessons I leaned as a UG collecting newbie, and as those who have any degree of familiarity with UG’s will testify, there are a number of invaluable collecting resources without which it’s very difficult to purchase comix with any degree of confidence:

 

The Official Underground and Newave Comix Price Guide by Jay Kennedy

 

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Published in the summer of 1982, Kennedy is quite simply the Bible of underground comix. Detailed information about the various printings; short essays by Jay Lynch, Denis Kitchen, S. Clay Wilson and others make Kennedy a massively useful resource if one treats it as a reference book and not a price guide.

 

One can still pick up copies of Kennedy in both hard and softcover format from Amazon and Ebay; I’ve seen them go for anything between $10 and $100, but if you find yourself a tight copy for around $50 you’ll be doing well.

 

Fogel's Underground Comix Price Guide

 

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Published by Hippy Comix Inc in 2006, Fogel's Underground Comix Price Guide is the first new Underground and Adult comix price guide since Kennedy. Though nothing like as comprehensively detailed as Kennedy, Fogel’s guide provides an interesting (if not wholey accurate) look at prices from over 1800 titles and 5000 individual issues between 1962-2006. Not a huge fan of the guide, but it remains a pretty useful supplement to Kennedy for sure.

 

Copies of Fogels guide are pretty easy to get hold of and retail for around $20. Fogels Guide can also be downloaded in PDF format from Heritage Auction Gallery’s here:

 

http://comics.ha.com/sales/underground.php

 

A Visual Guide To UNDERGROUND COMIX Reprints (Classic 'head' Comix of the 60's & 70's) Compiled by Zonker Harris

 

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http://www.ugcomix.info/hub.html

 

UG.comix is a wonderful website largely dedicated to providing a resource for collectors of Underground Comix of the 60's & 70's. The website features a really good ‘Visual Guide To UNDERGROUND COMIX Reprints’; perhaps the most useful feature of the site and is something I refer to time and again when attempting to identify print runs.

 

The above referenced resources are an interesting and invaluable aid to any prospective buyer of UG’s and offer a real insight into the depth and diversity of the genre,

 

It’s my hope this thread will be used to share information, answer questions and help garner an interest in a genre I’m fast developing a passion for,

 

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aardvark88

aardvark88

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I like Sir Real's (Zonker Harris?) YouTube underground features. He even focussed a show on Canadian artist Rand Holmes. (worship)

 

I find the obscure tabloids are best to collect. Bode's EVO (East Village Other), R Holmes in Vancouver Georgia Straight, R Crumb in everything including L.A. Free Press with Freak Bros and Fat Freddy's Cat. :devil:

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Fandango

Fandango

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Sir Real is a real character and a regular contributor over at CPG. Love the tabloids too though I suspect we are in the minority (many collectors I know refuse to dabble because they are so difficult to store). Yep, Freak Bros is a winner and is perhaps the title I'd recommend to people thinking of adding some comix to their collection.

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50 Cent #II (1st)

50 Cent #II (1st)

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I like Sir Real's (Zonker Harris?) YouTube underground features. He even focussed a show on Canadian artist Rand Holmes. (worship)

 

I find the obscure tabloids are best to collect. Bode's EVO (East Village Other), R Holmes in Vancouver Georgia Straight, R Crumb in everything including L.A. Free Press with Freak Bros and Fat Freddy's Cat. :devil:

 

Sir Real isn't Zonker...

 

Great sites for UnderGround references:

UGComix.info

HeadComix.info (Wiki)

 

UG forums:

CPG

HeadComix.info (Forums)

 

Top book on this subject.

 

Rebel Visions by Patrick Rosenkranz

Comix by Dez Skinn

History of Underground Comics by Estren

 

 

 

 

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That Ron Dude

That Ron Dude

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I find it surprising that there is so little collecting interest in undergrounds. One of the local stores, the Beguiling, has several up on their wall at not unreasonable prices that have been sitting there for years.

 

There were influencial and some were of very high quality but not too many people seem to want them. Maybe it is because so many of them are reprinted and rereprinted. Perhaps collectors feel that they will always be able to get the key ones off the rack.

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Fandango

Fandango

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UG's are never likely to be as conventionally popular as more mainstream books (they are by definition counterculture) but interest in comix does seems to be picking up (previously undervalued books like Funny Aminals, Tuff S*it and The Peoples Comics can no longer be picked up for a song). Barriers to entry? I'm sure many potential collectors are turned off by having to identify print runs, though this is one of the more appealing aspects of the genre for me, and perhaps the adult themes explored by many titles has resulted in them dropping off many peoples radars?

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oldmilwaukee6er

oldmilwaukee6er

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Fandango... I have been working through something similar, sort of a RE-CUT of my attempt on CPG some years ago. Hope you don't mind if I add it to your effort. Cheers, Om

 

Ready to collect underground comix? RE-CUT

 

As the underground comix (UGs; u-comix) digital community grows and expands, e.g. the Head Comix wiki & forum (but see also Poopsheet's History of Mini Comix or Sir Real's UG Comix Video Show) I was reminded of the utility of a thread such as this to those heads who may be coming back to UGs in the digital age... or those too young to recall the original movement, but attracted to the counter cultural art... or those comics collectors that might like to explore the underground... those of you ready to collect u-comix. So this thread is for all you lurkers who are coming back and have yet to post.

 

Similar to Fandango, I have attempted to highlight a few tiers-based on pricing, importance, etc.- of KEY UGs for any collecting budget. These posts largely represent my opinions, research, & experiences in actively collecting UG comix for the past 4+ years—a small amount of time to be sure.

 

So why collect UGs?

 

They’re dangerous.

 

Anti-censorship reaction to the Comics Code Authority proved a big influence to UG pioneers. As youngsters, future UG artists were deeply affected, with some watching their parents tear up their comics collections (see back cover to Zap Comix #1). U-comix are their payback.

 

They’re forbidden.

 

They are counterculture-inspired stories dealing with social issues like sex, drugs, rock music and anti-war protest. For this reason, these new comics became known as "comix" to set them apart from mainstream comics and to emphasize the "x" for x-rated. An estimated 10,000 copies of Tortoise & Hare (Air Pirates Funnies #3) were confiscated by during Walt Disney's litigation. Zap Comix #4 (1st/2nd) was prosecuted in New York and an estimated 20,000 copies were confiscated and destroyed.

They’re important…

 

Comix dealt with burgeoning social issues such as racism, sexism, & anti-war protest. The UG movement contained most of the earliest feminist work in comics.

 

…and they’re gaining credibility.

 

Jerry Weist, in his book titled The 100 Greatest Comic Books, rated Zap Comix #1 (1st) higher than many ‘straight’ powerhouses such as Detective Comics #27, Showcase #4, X-Men #1, Fantastic Four #1, and ASM #1. Since their Beat-inspired first pressing (Zap Comix #1 (1st) was hand-cranked by Charles Plymell), UGs gave birth to an important avant garde art movement. The u-comix phenomenon also inspired mini-comix (Kennedy's newave) and alternative comics as literature. Art Spiegelman won a Special Pulitzer Prize in Letters in 1991 for his work on MAUS, which was first developed by the artist in Funny Aminals[sic] & Short Order #1, UGs published some 19 years prior. Harvey Award winner Harvey Pekar's first comic work was published in Robert Crumb's People's Comics (1972), which precedes his work on American Splendor by almost 4 yrs.

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oldmilwaukee6er

oldmilwaukee6er

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Getting started...

“I want to add some underground comix (UGs; u-comix) to my collection, but don’t know enough about them to buy confidently.”

 

For UG comix collectors, this sentiment is often heard and easily understood. I started this thread in an attempt to quicken the learning curve for those of you who might like to add a few key titles to your collection.

 

When I first began discovering u-comix in the digital age (c. 2002), I was amazed at the paucity of publicly-held knowledge on UGs. After being gifted a few UG reprints, I watched eBay auctions on Zap Comix & Freak Brothers for the better part of two (2) years and learned one thing… there are so many different printings of these books! Did you know that as of 1982, Zap Comix #1 had gone through an estimated 17 printings, totaling around 300,000 comics? The real printing sequences may never fully be understood by modern day collectors (e.g. Zap Comix #1 3rd or Bogeyman #3), as we are now almost 40 years removed from the sources. Determining first (or early) printings from later ones remains important to value-minded collectors.[/size=1]

 

So, I embarked on the old cliché… Educate oneself.

The Official Underground & Newave Comix Price Guide (Kennedy 1982)

Eventually, I gained knowledge of this source. Kennedy’s guide is the master-source that has anchored u-comix collecting for almost 25 years and it is widely held as the seminal source on UGs. Not long ago, Kennedy (1982) commanded a hefty premium ($147.35 - $251.99), but prices have recently come down to a more reasonable levels.

 

Bottomline:

Perhaps no other reference can approach the level of detail contained in Kennedy (1982). It is an invaluable source for determining printings (still), artists contributing to a particular book, or for the historical values. At $40 a copy this book will save you that and more over your first year of accumulation. Over time the price of this book fluctuates, and copies are available and affordable, but it may take some time, research skills, and luck (e.g. check your local library).

 

Additional sources...

Supplement to the Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike? (coming 2008)

5,000 mini comix listings; updated pricing for KEY titles; checklist of British UGs

 

Fogel's Underground Comix Price Guide (Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?; 2006)

Published in Feb. 2006, Fogel's Underground Comix Price Guide (termed the Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?) is the FIRST comprehensive reference guide on UGs in over 24 years. It offers simplified printing "tells," updated pricing for over 3,000 UGs, with pricing data derived from years of data from leading sources (eBay, GPAnalysis, Heritage) and senior advisors closely tied with UGs. It also includes updated printing information for most UGs published after 1982 (post-Kennedy) and updated adult comix listings. Weaknesses: Depth of Kennedy 1982's information on artistic contribution and distinguishing printings simply not possible today (the notion that we are ~40yrs removed), some typos, inclusion of modern adult or `porn' comix (some would say).

 

The Comic Art Price Guide (Weist 2000)

Nestled within this guide on comic art is a small section on Underground comix (<1/6th of the book, really), which was probably intended be a market check and supplement to Kennedy (1982). Neither as extensive nor as informative as “The Guide” (not intended to be), Weist (2000) still represents the minimum one should arm themselves with when hunting for UGs. As it brings UG values out of the Bronze-age, this Guide will also give you a better sense for UG values than Kennedy.

 

UG Comix Info http://www.ugcomix.info/hub.html

However you hunt, DO supplement your searches with the information contained in “A Visual Guide to Underground Comix Reprints” located at the web address above. This site is very useful, both an excellent supplement to Kennedy (1982) and a great tool for bidding on Ebay. For newbies such as myself, this website has been indispensible. HOWEVER, the website will no longer be updated in lieu of the new Head Comix Wiki, but it is archived on CD that can be purchased for $20.

 

Head Comix Wiki/Forums http://headcomix.info/

Brand new, this is an open-source gathering space for old-school UG collectors & researchers who are currently building an open-source Visual Guide to UG Comix 2.0 (no price guide info). Zonker, Sir Real, & local CGC poster IITravel serve as moderators, among others.

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oldmilwaukee6er

oldmilwaukee6er

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Tier One KEYS: The GA of UG Comix.

  • Generally pre-1969
  • Generally >$1000/book
  • The pioneers of the UG movement

Zap Comix #1 (1st) Plymell

Snatch Comics #1 (1st)

Zap Comix #0 (1st)

Feds N Heads (1st) yellow road

Lenny of Laredo (1st)

God Nose (1st)

Adventures of Jesus (1st or 2nd)

Das Kampf (1st)

 

Bottomline: These are important books and rarities that were often distributed only to friends. As most were hand-assembled and stapled, folded into jeans pockets, etc., high grade copies are sought after and very expensive. It is downright amazing issues remain in this condition. Perhaps, like me, you’re saddened to learn that you are already priced out of many of THE most influential and seminal comix. But fear not, I believe there are other key books in the UG fold that would compliment any collection.

 

 

Tier Two KEYS: Other VERY noteworthy books, from the UG’s Silver Age.

  • Generally 1967-1972
  • Generally >$100 - 750/book
  • Generally a core group of UG Artists (e.g. Crumb, Shelton, Kitchen, S. Clay Wilson, etc.)

American Splendor #1

Bijou Funnies #1 (1st) Overlapping cover w/ white pgs

Freak Brothers #1 (1st; w/ orange block fetches 1.5x guide)

Freak Brothers #2 (1st; rainbow IFC; Big #1 ad)

Mom’s Homemade Comics #1 (1st; 49c)

Mr. Natural #1 (1st)

Douglas Comics #nn

Zap Comix #1 (2nd) Donahue

Zap Comix #2 (1st w/ Heads First miscut)

Zap Comix #3 (1st; w/ hvy cvr stock)

Zap Comix #4 (1st; w/ hvy cvr & staple align.)

Gothic Blimp Works #1-8

Yarrowstalks #3 Weist (2000) states “Note: multiple copies became available in the 1970’s for Nos. 1 and 2, however the No. 3 copy (especially flat- unfolded) is extremely rare.”

Jiz Comics

Head Comix

C*nt Comics

Fritz the Cat

Snatch #2 (1st)

Snatch #3 (1st)

Bogeyman #1 35c cover

Doomsday #nn (50c)

 

Bottomline: Every collector of UGs should hold one or two books from this list. Overtime, one might be able to find these beauties for approximately ½ Weist (2000), which if comix are still a developing market after almost 25 yrs without a guide, that should prove a sound investment. Note that with this list, outright “rarity” plays less of a role- rather, this list represents core UG titles and talent.

 

Zonker’s List of comix that say what printing they are

http://www.ugcomix.info/guide/parts/easyinfo.TXT

 

Zonker’s List of comix that are misleading (RE printings)

http://www.ugcomix.info/guide/parts/mislead.TXT

 

Zonker’s List of comix w/ indistinguishable printings

http://www.ugcomix.info/guide/parts/same.txt

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Fandango

Fandango

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my uncle gave me a bunch of Zap and fabulous Freak Brothers but i sold them about 5 years ago. i'm thinking of picking a few up.

 

Last Gasp have a website from which you can purchase Freak Brothers reprints:

 

http://www.lastgasp.com/

 

Failing that, Don Donahue (founder and printer of the second edition copies of Zap Comix #1) sells under the name apexnovelties on the bay and often has 1st print Freak Brothers & Zap comix up for auction:

 

http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQfgtpZ1QQfrppZ25QQsassZapexnovelties

 

Happy hunting.

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Fandango

Fandango

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anyone have any good websites that sell underground comix?

 

Denis Kitchen Publishing have a website from which uncirculated high grade UG's can be purchased:

 

http://deniskitchen.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=UG

 

Pick yourself up a copy of Fever Dreams by Richard Corben (thumbs u

 

FEVERDREAMS.jpg

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