Life-Span of a CGC Archival Case

[NewWorldOrder]

Thanks for the info everyone, this topic is helping me out alot!!

 

What do you guys mean by warp and how would some of the books staples tear in the case?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Thanks for the info everyone, this topic is helping me out alot!!

 

What do you guys mean by warp and how would some of the books staples tear in the case?

 

Slab is impacted....and the cover stays in place while the rest of the book shifts. This could potentially lead to staple tears.

[NewWorldOrder]

Thanks for the info everyone, this topic is helping me out alot!!

 

What do you guys mean by warp and how would some of the books staples tear in the case?

 

Slab is impacted....and the cover stays in place while the rest of the book shifts. This could potentially lead to staple tears.

 

what do u mean by impacted?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Thanks for the info everyone, this topic is helping me out alot!!

 

What do you guys mean by warp and how would some of the books staples tear in the case?

 

Slab is impacted....and the cover stays in place while the rest of the book shifts. This could potentially lead to staple tears.

 

what do u mean by impacted?

 

Postal carrier kicks your package down the hallway.....for example.

[NewWorldOrder]

Thanks for the info everyone, this topic is helping me out alot!!

 

What do you guys mean by warp and how would some of the books staples tear in the case?

 

Slab is impacted....and the cover stays in place while the rest of the book shifts. This could potentially lead to staple tears.

 

what do u mean by impacted?

 

Postal carrier kicks your package down the hallway.....for example.

 

Oh kind of like your boy Ace Ventura when he the UPS GUY in the begining of Ace Ventura Pet Detective, !!!

 

One last thing, what would make the comic cover stay in one place or planted firmly to the case and the rest of the comic book's pages move aorund?

[buttock]

RE: the inner well.

 

To be brief - none of the commercially available plastics you can buy to store comics are "archival" as defined by the Library of Congress; including the CGC inner well.

 

To be long-winded - Mylar (or Melinex) is what the LOC recommends, with the exception that it have no additives. You can buy Mylar, but according to this test: http://www.eclipsepaper.com/report.htm - whatever it was they tested had additives (UV inhibitors, although I suspect it probably has some plasticizers as well to facilitate sealing). I haven't talked to Bill Cole or E. Gerber Co. about this, so it's speculation plus the aforementioned results. The LOC has a very strict requirement on its archival material, namely that it have no additives. Therefore, whatever you can buy (because it has additives) doesn't meet LOC requirements for "archival".

 

CGC uses Barex - which is supposedly inert (i.e. it doesn't decay or give off oils/gases). However, it's not known to me what additives are in their Barex.

 

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book. How effective is the micro-chamber paper at absorbing gases when used in a CGC slab? Was that initially tested, or was it tested in an experimental environment with controlled and/or biased conditions?

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

RE: the inner well.

 

To be brief - none of the commercially available plastics you can buy to store comics are "archival" as defined by the Library of Congress; including the CGC inner well.

 

To be long-winded - Mylar (or Melinex) is what the LOC recommends, with the exception that it have no additives. You can buy Mylar, but according to this test: http://www.eclipsepaper.com/report.htm - whatever it was they tested had additives (UV inhibitors, although I suspect it probably has some plasticizers as well to facilitate sealing). I haven't talked to Bill Cole or E. Gerber Co. about this, so it's speculation plus the aforementioned results. The LOC has a very strict requirement on its archival material, namely that it have no additives. Therefore, whatever you can buy (because it has additives) doesn't meet LOC requirements for "archival".

 

CGC uses Barex - which is supposedly inert (i.e. it doesn't decay or give off oils/gases). However, it's not known to me what additives are in their Barex.

 

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book. How effective is the micro-chamber paper at absorbing gases when used in a CGC slab? Was that initially tested, or was it tested in an experimental environment with controlled and/or biased conditions?

 

 

For my "raw" comic I only use E.Gerber's Mylites2, and the Full-Back Boards.

 

To me I think if you replace those every 7-10 years, then your raw comics will be fresh and acid-free for atleast my lifetime.

 

I agree with you that it is very unkown how safe CGC cases, inner sleeve, and microchamper will be in the years to come without getting it reholder with new everything.

 

I am not to concerned about the actual case, its more of the inner-sleeve.

 

 

 

 

[awe4one]

Was anyone using microchamber paper for their comics before CGC? I'd be curious to know what the longest someone has used a sheet and it's affect, if any, on the inside comic pages it was touching...

 

Jim

[sterlingcomics]

To me I think if you replace those every 7-10 years, then your raw comics will be fresh and acid-free for atleast my lifetime.

 

These archival products don't make your comics fresher, they just help maintain them for handling purposes and reducing envrionmental factors that may potentially increase aging.

 

So, replacing mylars and full backs isn't really required.

 

This was one of FFB's (formerly known as footballfantasybono) great discussion points. If you find one of those threads you will be very enlightened.

[sterlingcomics]

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book.

 

Yep...I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[CAMERANIAC]

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book.

 

Yep...I guess we'll have to wait and see.

[sterlingcomics]

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book.

 

Yep...I guess we'll have to wait and see.

I believe in one of the FFB threads we concluded that environmental factors are still the biggest variables here, not the book inside the CGC case. I could be speaking out of my hindquarters, though.

[awe4one]

I've bought comics where the bags and boards were significantly aged and yellowed but the comics inside were newsstand fresh. I think the general belief that poly/pro bags and boards damage comics may be true to an extent but is extremely overhyped. Storage conditions are by far more of a factor...

 

Hell, I have many comics bought off the newsstand 20+ years ago that are still in the same bags and boards...and they still look like I bought them yesterday...

 

Jim

[sterlingcomics]

I agree. :thumbsup:

 

As a general rule, if the materials you are using to protect your collectibles are no longer effective, it's generally a bad thing, but not a showstopper. The environmental factor is primary and those conditions help determine to a greater extent what your books end up as.

 

An extreme example is: I have my comic in an old bag and board, and after a week my comic was curled up and the cover was faded. Did the bag and board do it? No, but keeping it out in the sun of the back car seat window during the hottest days of summer did.

 

And let's not forget all of the pedigreed Edgar Church books that all have white pages to this day for a book published in 1941. He didn't even have these materials available. The books were truly "raw".

[NewWorldOrder]

Good Info!!!

[The Troll King]

Why am I reminded of Dana Carvey doing his old man routine, "Buy me this useless piece of plastic, or I'm gonna cry!"

[Leescomics]

Over the years I have found a few high-grade, white paper collections of Golden Age Comics, Pulps, and Big Little books. I am always quite curious about the storage conditions.

 

I invariably found that these collections were sealed away from oxygen, usually in a closed, locked or sealed container with limited air flow. They were also stored in an environment that didn't get too hot or cold. The high-grade, white paper collections that I found had spent their lives sealed up in chests, trunks, and footlockers.

 

It is my belief that a regular five-cent comic book bag will protect a comic book very nicely almost indefinitely. What ages or hurts a comic book is heat, oxygen, moisture, light, movement, bugs and vermin. If you want to be extra careful, you can change the bags every few years, but the benefit of that is marginal. I have bought plenty of comics collections that were sealed in saran wrap that was yellowed and stuck together with age. Ripping the wrap often revealed very nice books. I am sure that without this Saran wrap, the books would not have been as nice. I have yet to see a bag damage a comic book. Tape, on the other hand can be quite dangerous to covers, if snagged.

 

It's ironic that expensive Mylar bags are not sealed at the top, and can let air right in, which quickly degrades a comic. They are not good for long-term storage, unless you seal up the books in a box.

 

The CGC holder would seem to be a safe way to store your comic, as long as it's stored in a good environment as outlined above. I think you are paying mainly for the grading service when you buy CGC. I don't think it’s a cost effective means of preservation when a comic book bag or Mylite is available at a tiny fraction of the price of CGC encapsulation.

 

As was said in earlier posts, it's not good to roughly handle comic books, or leave them in the sun, even if they are in a CGC holder. Careful handling is a must no matter what you put your comics in.

 

- Lee

[NewWorldOrder]

Good stuff

[selegue]

RE: the inner well.

 

To be brief - none of the commercially available plastics you can buy to store comics are "archival" as defined by the Library of Congress; including the CGC inner well.

 

To be long-winded - Mylar (or Melinex) is what the LOC recommends, with the exception that it have no additives. You can buy Mylar, but according to this test: http://www.eclipsepaper.com/report.htm - whatever it was they tested had additives (UV inhibitors, although I suspect it probably has some plasticizers as well to facilitate sealing). I haven't talked to Bill Cole or E. Gerber Co. about this, so it's speculation plus the aforementioned results. The LOC has a very strict requirement on its archival material, namely that it have no additives. Therefore, whatever you can buy (because it has additives) doesn't meet LOC requirements for "archival".

 

 

I hope everyone follows that link to the best report available (except for the apostrophes in plurals and 'its' ) about the commonly used storage materials, including those used by CGC. It's too bad that they didn't also test the materials used by PGX, but were they around in 2001?

 

 

CGC uses Barex - which is supposedly inert (i.e. it doesn't decay or give off oils/gases). However, it's not known to me what additives are in their Barex.

 

 

Or which Barex they use -- I've never figured it out. Do you know?

 

What also isn't known (to me at least) is what the long term effects are of encapsulating a comic book. How effective is the micro-chamber paper at absorbing gases when used in a CGC slab? Was that initially tested, or was it tested in an experimental environment with controlled and/or biased conditions?

 

 

The buffer capacity of the microchamber paper wouldn't be hard to measure, but I bet the technical specs are available from the company that manufactures it. Does anyone know which company that is?

 

Thanks,

 

Jack

[selegue]

.... I have bought plenty of comics collections that were sealed in saran wrap that was yellowed and stuck together with age. Ripping the wrap often revealed very nice books. I am sure that without this Saran wrap, the books would not have been as nice. I have yet to see a bag damage a comic book. Tape, on the other hand can be quite dangerous to covers, if snagged.

 

...

 

I agree with everything you wrote with the exception of Saran Wrap. If it was old Saran Wrap, I'm very surprised by your comment. Old Saran Wrap was polyvinyl chloride (PVC) loaded with plasticizers (including phthalates, probably dibutyl or dioctyl but I'm not positive which). PVC breaks down on heating to give acids including HCl, which catalyzes pulp breakdown. The plasticizers were slowly released even at room temperature to give a sticky mess that dissolves cover inks. I've bought some books with that problem. Some US plastic wraps (e.g., Reynold's) are still PVC, but if they're intended for use with food, they don't contain phthalates. Some do contain the approved plasticizer DEHA (di(2-ethylhexyl)adipate), which can also leach out on long-term storage.

 

Maybe the books you found were in new Saran or Glad Wrap, which fortunately are polyethylene (identical to inexpensive comic-book bags) with no plasticizers. One to avoid is Saran Original Premium Wrap, which is poly(vinylidene chloride) -- similar to PVC -- containing plasticizers.

 

Tape -- yeesh. If I were putting my books in bins for ham-fisted collectors to paw through, I'd tape them, but generally I pull off and throw away the tape as soon as I receive a bagged comic book. I have gotten a few bargains on otherwise primo books with tape pulls over the years.

 

Jack