Why Moderns Suck...

[Fan4Fan]

[

Man have they got you trained. It's not a new kind of storytelling. It's telling a complete 128 page story and releasing it over four months. If the money shots don't happen until Part 4 then too bad. What works in a GN doesn't necessarily in serial form. That's the point here and FF #554 is a great example but sadly not the only one...

 

Jim

Money shot......

 

[Rodey]

I think part of the problem with modern comics is writing stories for the main, big sellers: Spiderman, FF, X-men. These characters are so grounded in history and stories that it makes it difficult for writers to tackle. But some writers, like Brubaker, have proven that fresh, new ideas are out there.

 

Where I see great modern storytelling are in the lesser known titles or indie titles: Fear Agent, Walking Dead, Immortal Iron Fist, and Y: The Last Man to name a few.

 

Sos I understand how people who've followed a title for years and years and dropped the title, have a hard time getting back into the story. I still struggle with Brubaker's Uncanny X-men. But if you don't like the title, don't read it anymore. There are tons of other titles out there to choose from.

 

Maybe I'm generalizing.

[Chi Bamm]

The FF wasn't good and was all filler. Sadly, that's becoming the norm with Part 1s when dealing with Moderns.

 

Picked up a Walking Dead copy a couple months ago. Didn't know what the hell was going on. I'm sure it's great for the regular reader...but for a new one, it's indecipherable...

 

I didn't want to get involved but it seems to me that these two statements you make are contradictory. In my view, the first issue of Millar's FF was a good jumping on point as it "filled" me in and the rest of the arc wouldn't be "indecipherable" to me. Eventhough I've read little to no FF, I feel confidently I can know "what the hell is going on".

 

But let me get this clear, you don't want a filler issue to get you comfortable but you do want to be able to pick up any issue at any time and know what is going on.

 

Well, I got two things to say. Good luck with that, and who ya crappin?

[awe4one]

I think part of the problem with modern comics is writing stories for the main, big sellers: Spiderman, FF, X-men. These characters are so grounded in history and stories that it makes it difficult for writers to tackle. But some writers, like Brubaker, have proven that fresh, new ideas are out there.

 

Where I see great modern storytelling are in the lesser known titles or indie titles: Fear Agent, Walking Dead, Immortal Iron Fist, and Y: The Last Man to name a few.

 

Sos I understand how people who've followed a title for years and years and dropped the title, have a hard time getting back into the story. I still struggle with Brubaker's Uncanny X-men. But if you don't like the title, don't read it anymore. There are tons of other titles out there to choose from.

 

Maybe I'm generalizing.

 

I think we're talking about two different things here but I suspect the point you're making is correct. You're talking continuity and older readers having more trouble jumping on board. I don't see continuity being as difficult a deterent for readers as long as the basic outline has been followed. Throw in something that radically changes that history and older readers will have a more difficult time (i.e. Bucky's return).

 

As far as being unable to write a decent story because of continuity, I have a saying...anyone can write a mediocre or semi-decent story, great writers can take what happened before and craft new stories while still respecting the history. Recent SH storylines tend to suggest the great writers are few and far between...

 

I also suspect writers save their best stuff for their indy projects where they can own and option their ideas to other media. Use those ideas while writing for the Big Two publishers and you're screwed. That's why some of the best writing today is done independently. Can't say I blame them. The only problem with this is new readers will be drawn to the established characters first. If you don't grab them there, they never migrate to the Indy titles.

 

Jim

[awe4one]

[but let me get this clear, you don't want a filler issue to get you comfortable but you do want to be able to pick up any issue at any time and know what is going on.

 

No...I want an issue that entertains me for my $3 and a jumping on point that makes me want to buy the next issue. #554 didn't do either...

 

The Walking Dead example is even when you have some semblance of knowing whats going on...you just can't jump on-board at anytime.

 

Apples and oranges anyway since no one hyped any issue of Walking Dead other than the beginning as a great jumping on point. But the creators really aren't helping themselves by not providing some type of background should someone impulse buy an issue...

 

Jim

[seank]

Regarding FF lately, I'm dropping it from my saver. It's underwhelmed me for months, including the new Millar stuff which underwhelms me even more.

 

I'm also dropping Ultimate FF which has lost quality and momentum.

 

That said, there are some great moderns out there. Add me to the Walking Dead list but if anyone reading is thinking of checking it out, start with TPB #1 and work your way up.

 

Daredevil and Iron Fist are both great.

 

If you want to avoid men in tights, check out The Goon for some surrealistic zombie low life mayhem. Any book where a psychic seal gets punched out deserves to be read.

[bronzilla]

For me its simple Like So many others we got tired of all the hype and wildly_fanciful_statement of the Big -2 With crossover and heroes dying breifly then brought back Heroes jumping from one bed into another heroes doing things completly out of character.

For a guy who has read comics longer than some have been alive on these Boards Seeing Heroes act this way is like dishonoring the pure memorys of our youth.

I recognize comics need to change with the times, But i think Quesada at Marvel has gone way overboard. And As I have stated many times on the Boards, When they Killed Captain America and Tony Stark Was revealed to be a facsist in The Civil War Idiocy, I gave up on Most Moderns.

I love independant publishers Image And Dark Horse and a couple others. Put me in the I love the Walking Dead camp as well!

[Paladin]

On the critiquing-side of the new FF; I did find the switch to Hitch a little off. Not that I don't like it. It just seemed like such a jarring switch from Pelletier---who I thought did a great job with his issues.

 

To make a comparison; It was like it was two movies with the same characters but shot with different filters, and the new filter is taking some getting used to.

 

I also agree on getting the Walking Dead trades. That's how I started. Trades 1 and 2 and then singles to the present. Good stuff! (thumbs u

[Norrin_Radd]

Why is it that the most highly-touted non-superhero comic titles are ultra-violent?

 

Preacher. 100 Bullets. Even Y the Last Man. And I'm assuming Walking Dead.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jayman]

Was Bone ultra violent?

[OldGuy]

Why is it that the most highly-touted non-superhero comic titles are ultra-violent?

 

Preacher. 100 Bullets. Even Y the Last Man. And I'm assuming Walking Dead.

 

Because most people that read comics are in their 30's or 40's?

[Kevin Boyd]

Mark Millar has always written books that way... each issue is a drawn out chapter in his latest story, and I know that you KNOW that, so this is just another in a long string of threads where you can jump on the soapbox about how you don't like the current Marvel "method" epitomized by every one of their writers like Bendis/Millar/Ellis/Rucka/Brubaker/Fraction/insert name here.

 

Complaining about the way Mark Millar writes comics and the way Marvel makes comics at this point is like complaining about the way Steven Spielberg/David Fincher/Kevin Smith/insert name here directs movies. I'm surprised you even bothered with FF554.

 

Mark Millar writes books. That Marvel decides to publish the chapters in periodical format is irrelevant. He breaks his chapters at 22 pages. He doesn't care if nothing happens in that chapter other than some moments of characterization and one or two shock moments.

 

Sure I miss old school Marvel, but that type of comics production died about 10 years ago when the market crashed and Joe Quesada was given an editing job. They've turned a dying niche market into a marginally successful book trade.

 

Personally, I wait for the hardcover and read the story in one sitting.

[awe4one]

Mark Millar has always written books that way... each issue is a drawn out chapter in his latest story, and I know that you KNOW that, so this is just another in a long string of threads where you can jump on the soapbox about how you don't like the current Marvel "method" epitomized by every one of their writers like Bendis/Millar/Ellis/Rucka/Brubaker/Fraction/insert name here.

 

Actually, I didn't KNOW that. If I did I wouldn't have bothered. I've read Ultimate FF, including the first issue, and was entertained. I thought I would be here but all I got was a worthless filler issue where nothing happened...

 

Complaining about the way Mark Millar writes comics and the way Marvel makes comics at this point is like complaining about the way Steven Spielberg/David Fincher/Kevin Smith/insert name here directs movies. I'm surprised you even bothered with FF554.

 

Actually I like movies from the these guys...but comics aren't movies, they are monthly periodicals. With movies I get a complete story in one sitting. I expect some sort of entertainment each issue even though the story may go multiple issues. It's not that hard to understand...

 

Mark Millar writes books. That Marvel decides to publish the chapters in periodical format is irrelevant. He breaks his chapters at 22 pages. He doesn't care if nothing happens in that chapter other than some moments of characterization and one or two shock moments.

 

He may not care but I sure as hell do. I just paid $3 for a nothing story. If you want to defend that type publishing then more power to you and you're more of a sucker than I gave you credit for...

 

Sure I miss old school Marvel, but that type of comics production died about 10 years ago when the market crashed and Joe Quesada was given an editing job. They've turned a dying niche market into a marginally successful book trade.

 

Then release it as a trade and dispense with trying to fleece the monthly readers. Using the excuse of "new style storytelling" is nothing but spin to get their money both ways.

 

Personally, I wait for the hardcover and read the story in one sitting.

 

Did you even read #554?

 

Jim

[seank]

Why is it that the most highly-touted non-superhero comic titles are ultra-violent?

 

Preacher. 100 Bullets. Even Y the Last Man. And I'm assuming Walking Dead.

 

 

 

Try the new Spirit series. Only somewhat violent.

 

I've been reading DC's new Minx line. Some pretty good stuff there if you want to read comics aimed at a different audience. Mostly non-violent so far.

[Kevin Boyd]

Once again... you've completely missed the point if you think I'm defending this method of storytelling.

 

You can't have been living under a rock for the last 7 years to have missed the changes in modern comics storytelling epitomized by the work of Mr. Millar, Brian Michael Bendis and others. You've been present on these chatboards criticising modern comics enough to indicate that you aren't that ignorant of the modern comic market and the decompressed approach modern writers are taking to the material they write.

 

And the movie reference must have completely gone over your head. The directors named have their own styles of movie-making and storytelling. Most viewers have some inkling of what they are getting when they see, for example, the Spielberg name on a movie. Ditto for Mark Millar. He's done enough high profile work to give a potential buyer some idea of what they are going to get when they see his name attached to a project as writer.

 

While I plan to read the FF story in one sitting when it is collected, I did actually read FF 554 on the way back from LA last Monday and it's exactly what I expected it to be, a set up for the next five issues where nothing actually happens. It's pretty much standard Mark Millar with some nice artwork by Bryan Hitch.

 

 

 

 

 

[seank]

 

While I plan to read the FF story in one sitting when it is collected, I did actually read FF 554 on the way back from LA last Monday and it's exactly what I expected it to be, a set up for the next five issues where nothing actually happens. It's pretty much standard Mark Millar with some nice artwork by Bryan Hitch.

 

 

Why should I buy six issues where nothing actually happens? That was ok for Seinfeld, but I don't think it's ok for Fantastic Four.

 

And, just to some more, I find Bryan Hitch's artwork completely unsuited to the FF. They don't look right to me.

[followtheleader]

 

While I plan to read the FF story in one sitting when it is collected, I did actually read FF 554 on the way back from LA last Monday and it's exactly what I expected it to be, a set up for the next five issues where nothing actually happens. It's pretty much standard Mark Millar with some nice artwork by Bryan Hitch.

 

 

Why should I buy six issues where nothing actually happens? That was ok for Seinfeld, but I don't think it's ok for Fantastic Four.

 

And, just to some more, I find Bryan Hitch's artwork completely unsuited to the FF. They don't look right to me.

 

Uhm, nothing happening has been FF's M.O. for years and years.

 

Just a joke, kind of.

 

Pat

[johnenock]

If you want to read a book where something happens try Remender's The End League. Just finished issue 1 and it was great. A short synopsis with spoilers maybe:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Astonishman(Superman) sets off an apocolypse, which kills billions and leaves 1 in 1000 survivors with super powers. Of course, human nature proves too much and most of these powered folk use their power for themselves(in other words they are villains). THis leaves only a handful of heroes who, like everyone else, need to fight for food just for survival. First issue deals with a food raid and their search for the hammer of Thor. I'll just say at the end of the book they find the hammer and it is not a good thing.

 

 

Anyway, excellent MODERN story telling. Hey, Jim, I am not big into Marvel but their M.O. has been the same for years...nothing ever happens(at least nothing permanent). I have only read one issue of the End League but it starts out with a story to tell and tells it perfectly. Remender will break into my top 5 writers if the rest of this series is as good as the first.

[OldGuy]

He may not care but I sure as hell do. I just paid $3 for a nothing story. If you want to defend that type publishing then more power to you and you're more of a sucker than I gave you credit for...

 

He wasn't defending it, he was stating a fact and didn't say one way or the other if he was for or against it. For one reason or the other it seems that you're the one playing defense here.

[Kevin Boyd]

 

While I plan to read the FF story in one sitting when it is collected, I did actually read FF 554 on the way back from LA last Monday and it's exactly what I expected it to be, a set up for the next five issues where nothing actually happens. It's pretty much standard Mark Millar with some nice artwork by Bryan Hitch.

 

 

Why should I buy six issues where nothing actually happens? That was ok for Seinfeld, but I don't think it's ok for Fantastic Four.

 

And, just to some more, I find Bryan Hitch's artwork completely unsuited to the FF. They don't look right to me.

 

Do or don't buy it, that's entirely up to you. As with most Millar books I'm sure it will read well enough when it's finished and in a single volume, but yes, as with any episode of Star Trek, by the time this is over the characters will be right back to where we found them for the next creative team.