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The Official The Walking Dead Discussion Thread
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Started by MutantKeys,

40,456 posts in this topic

ExcludedTim

ExcludedTim

Posted
Posted
GO AWAY!! :frustrated:

Maybe I'm supposed to feel sorry for intruding in your comfy privileged white male bubble.

 

I'm black.

 

It's incredibly insulting that that comment even came out of her mouth. But you shouldn't expect much different from someone who was stuck on a tangent about the ethics of Rape and it's use in comics.

 

Because of that comment alone I added her to the fine company of users on my ignore list.

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James J

James J

Posted
Posted (edited)
Anyone know what the 98 splash went for?

Thanks

Huh? 98? (shrug)

 

Issue 98 splash with the zombies on comic connect auction. It ended and you have to sign on to find out......boy sometime I'm so lazy knowing I have you guys here...(and girls)

 

Edit : do to poor spelling. Now grammar I'll keep as is.

Edited by James J
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Mark 1

Mark 1

Posted
Posted
meh Robert Kirkman is practicing his freedom of speach. Perhaps you should research the http://cbldf.org/ . They defend these types of work!

That's an insanely dumb response.

 

It is disappointing to see such blowback at Katchoo's argument about lazy writing. I found the rape plot to be a common male written interpretation of a woman's worst horror in a post-apocalyptic scenario. It attempted to make the Governor a typically "evil" character, but actually took away from his craziness evident in keeping alive a zombie pet daughter and floating heads in tanks.

YES, a hundred times yes! That's one more thing I hate about it. I made the point before - it's always used to show just how "evil" a guy is. It's so far from what rape actually is. It perpetuates the myth that rape is only committed by evil monsters lurking in dark places.

 

This is exactly why M.Millar got flack. He explained that he used rape in the story to show how bad the guy was. :facepalm:

 

However, the argument can be made that a rape scenario in a book like TWD is not only expected, but would probably be common in that kind of society.

 

Think of our current society, as we stand. Every day you hear horror stories of utterly disgusting things that human beings do to one another; things so vile and disturbing that they can turn your stomach. Now imagine society in a post-apocalyptic world like that of TWD. Wouldn’t the expectation be that these “evil” things would continue to occur and to some extent with more frequency and depravation? The human mind being regressed to a primitive, animalistic, survival of the fittest state would probably lead to this, no? Or do we think that in post-apocalyptic world we would be more understanding and loving to our fellow man as we try to survive and rebuild?

 

My point is that I don’t see a plot like rape in TWD as being lazy writing or just shock inducing.

You don't need to tell me how common rape and other awful things are. I don't think that holds any weight for the argument you're putting forward though. In fact, I think it weakens it in this particular case.

 

"A plot like rape" in any story, not just TWD isn't inherently lazy writing and isn't always used for shock. I've already said that. In this case, the rape-revenge issue was most definitely shock for shock's sake. I honestly don't know how you can argue otherwise. I mean, that was Ennis level torture porn. Reading the story, it felt like the only purpose of the rape was to have that torture scene afterwards. That really *spooned* me off. It's so unbelievably lazy and completely disrespectful. It's a dude writing about a woman getting raped and then having revenge torture. That's introducing rape into a story for the shock factor and for "entertainment".

 

And I honestly don't buy the argument of a story like this being "expected" to have rape or that it somehow needs rape to remain realistic (it's about zombies ffs). I'll back up my opinion of that by pointing out there are plenty of similar stories, either end-of-world scenarios or zombie stories that don't have rape and cope just fine without having rape. I mean, if you saw a zombie movie where people were acting like animals and there wasn't a rape scene would you think afterwards "yeah, that was really cool, but the lack of a rape scene really spoiled it for me"? Is this what you're saying? Cos it sounds ridiculous to me. Also, the tv show doesn't have the rape or the torture scene.

 

Do I feel like Kirkman has had some weak points in his story thus far? Sure, but in my opinion it’s not this particular topic nor do i feel like his writing is plagued with sexism. A lot of the female characters in TWD are strong in their own right. I love Andrea and think she’s kick- and I’m sure a lot of people feel the same about Michonne.

I've never said Kirkman's writing is plagued with sexism. I even pointed out myself that I was glad Michonne at least had a personality (if I'm remembering correctly) before the rape and it certainly wasn't the definition of her character or the only reason for her being in the comic in the first place. So please don't use strawman arguments. :foryou:

 

This +1 EXACTLY!!!!

lol

 

You are entitled to your opinion about rape being present in TWD. Yes, it has happened a couple of times. And, to some women comic fans, I can see how this can offend you.

 

But, look at it from a perspective that this WILL happen if society is broken and no laws or people to enforce them are around. If men like Negan or the Governor were in charge...you'd be wrong thinking this wouldn't happen.

 

It's an unfortunate fact but back in ancient times rape was extremely prevalent. Read about it. Doesn't make it right and I can see how a woman could be sickened by it.

 

Kirkman is only exposing realities that would happen in a post apocalyptic world. Mad men running around with no police or legal system? If I were a woman, I'd be very scared in that world.

 

With that said, we get you don't like it. :)

 

 

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Katchoo

Katchoo

Posted
Posted
I'm black.

...And?

 

It's incredibly insulting that that comment even came out of her mouth. But you shouldn't expect much different from someone who was stuck on a tangent about the ethics of Rape and it's use in comics.

 

Because of that comment alone I added her to the fine company of users on my ignore list.

Kevin-Butler-Mind-Blown.gif

 

You are entitled to your opinion about rape being present in TWD. Yes, it has happened a couple of times. And, to some women comic fans, I can see how this can offend you.

 

But, look at it from a perspective that this WILL happen if society is broken and no laws or people to enforce them are around. If men like Negan or the Governor were in charge...you'd be wrong thinking this wouldn't happen.

 

It's an unfortunate fact but back in ancient times rape was extremely prevalent. Read about it. Doesn't make it right and I can see how a woman could be sickened by it.

 

Kirkman is only exposing realities that would happen in a post apocalyptic world. Mad men running around with no police or legal system? If I were a woman, I'd be very scared in that world.

 

With that said, we get you don't like it. :)

 

I'm honestly not arguing that it's unrealistic for that to happen in an apocalyptic world. Of course rape would happen. It happens NOW and it's prevalent. Current statistics on rape and rape convictions is grim reading.

 

My problem is with the way it is portrayed and how it's just thrown in as a plot device without any other considerations. I've tried to explain that (numerous times now) but my point keeps getting missed.

 

Why do you think the guys at AMC chose to omit Michonne's rape and subsequent revenge torture? (Serious question, not rhetorical) I've asked before and got no answer - is the show any less realistic?

 

When you have 1 in 4 women facing sexual assault then maybe every 4th women in fiction needs to be assaulted in order to keep it realistic. Obviously that's a daft idea so the argument that it should be featured the way it was in TWD for realism's sake is also daft. The sad fact is, when it comes to the reality of rape, there aren't many who *truly* want realism because that story would be too difficult and too grim for most people to ever want to read or watch. Though maybe if the reality of it was shown up close then guys might think twice before throwing it in their story without a second thought.

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Jking3437

Jking3437

Posted
Posted (edited)

The walking dead is a comic book , if you don't like it go read my little pony, of something that's rated G. You should have known what kind of "horrors " one could expect with a " MATURE RATING"

Edited by Jking3437
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Mark 1

Mark 1

Posted
Posted

Quick response to this..

 

Yes it is used in the comic and not the tv show. Not because of the impact of rape but because a mature comic has much more leeway than a tv show.

 

As for it being thrown in as a plot device, I don't know if that's right or not. I know it hasn't happened a lot in over 115 issues of the comic. I'm not Kirkman and don't know his motivations.

 

I think it's an adult comic and your shock or disappointment is completely fine. Just don't expect us to agree in the walking dead fan thread. :)

 

Lastly, the comic is not causing men to consider rape or to make it any less heinous. Those old enough to read it (and kids should not be buying or reading it) should know better it's fiction and not be influenced or desensitized to the atrocities of rape.

 

Now bring on the walking dead happy discussions!

 

Anyone see my WD sale? :fear:

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rjrjr

rjrjr

Posted
Posted (edited)
Quick response to this..

 

Yes it is used in the comic and not the tv show. Not because of the impact of rape but because a mature comic has much more leeway than a tv show.

 

As for it being thrown in as a plot device, I don't know if that's right or not. I know it hasn't happened a lot in over 115 issues of the comic. I'm not Kirkman and don't know his motivations.

 

I think it's an adult comic and your shock or disappointment is completely fine. Just don't expect us to agree in the walking dead fan thread. :)

 

Lastly, the comic is not causing men to consider rape or to make it any less heinous. Those old enough to read it (and kids should not be buying or reading it) should know better it's fiction and not be influenced or desensitized to the atrocities of rape.

 

Now bring on the walking dead happy discussions!

 

Anyone see my WD sale? :fear:

 

FX use to have a show on TV called Nip/Tuck where one of the main characters raped a blow up doll. It was a very disturbing episode. Most of the episodes were disturbing. I'll never forget the episode with Brooke Shields. :cry: I suspect AMC would have no problem with a rape scene and subsequent revenge scene, but I also suspect that wouldn't endear the Michonne character to the audience. AMC is balancing the horror of the stories with a sprinkle of likeable characters and so far I think they've done a good job with the balance.

 

I also think it is harder to portray horror in a comic book, so I would expect the comic to have more hardcore imagery and events than the TV show. To me rape and murder are both heinous acts, so I don't understand why one is okay to have and not the other. As long as they are both presented as horror and treated in a mature manner, I'm okay with it.

Edited by rjrjr
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awakeintheashes

awakeintheashes

Posted
Posted (edited)

To get to the point that Katchoo is making, yes, it may have been a lazy plot device to show us how evil the Governor is. With that said, Kirkman, like most of us, has matured and so has his writing/storytelling. This is evident in his recent portrayal of the latest antagonist, Negan.

 

I understand that her point is less about the actual rape and more about how it was used to move the story/"Gov. is evil" forward. I do think Kirkman has evolved as a writer, so if you ever decide to finish the series, Katchoo, keep that in mind.

Edited by awakeintheashes
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artistlost

artistlost

Posted
Posted
Picked this up last night. Figured it was a bargain considering it's a decent zombie page, has Rick, Michonne and Carl, and is 100% Charlie.

 

RAD0CF0620131011_172716.jpg

 

Nice page! I was tempted to bid but just didn't have the funds for it. I think you got it for a great price...

 

mathew

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