Undisclosed Restoration from Dealer (Metro)

[Sardo Numspar]

First, I apologize if this is not the appropriate place for this topic. If there is a better location please let me know.

 

I recently purchased a Marvel Mystery GA book from Metropolis. It was listed as unrestored, and I received confirmation from them that it was unrestored when I asked them to double check for me before the purchase.

 

I received the book and sent it to CGC. The grade came back spot on what Metropolis stated. However, it came back restored (slight ameteur - very small amount of glue on spine of cover). I contacted Metropolis to try and resolve the issue. They are willing to take back the book and give me a full refund. However, they will not reimburse me for CGC costs or shipping costs.

 

Any thoughts on this issue would be greatly appreciated. Am I expecting too much for Metro to reimburse CGC costs after they twice represented to me the book was not restored?

 

Thanks.

[NewWorldOrder]

Metro or any dealer has no reponsibilty to refund you for the CGC costs.

 

Same logic as if you bought something from me on eBay and you returned it me. I would refund you the comic price but def not the S/H.

 

 

 

 

[PokerKid]

Metro or any dealer has no reponsibilty to refund you for the CGC costs.

 

Same logic as if you bought something from me on eBay and you returned it me. I would refund you the comic price but def not the S/H.

 

 

 

 

I feel they are absolutely responsible for the costs related to the book. Metropolis not only misrepresented the book - I assumen unintentionally - but caused the buyer to expend additional funds. Now Metropolis will get back a better book than it sold (it has been slabbed, so future buyers won't have to factor in that cost) and the buyer who did nothing wrong is left with no book and less money than he started with through no fault of his own.

 

If I purchased a Detective #225 from you and you sent me #226. I would would expect you to give me my money back, including all shipping costs. Same thing goes here. Metropolis did not sell him what was promised and they should incur the additional costs. What the buyer did is reasonable and is not taking advantage fo the dealer in any way. If Metropolis does not make good on the additional costs, why would they ever bother to disclose restoration? If the buyer doesn't discover it, Metropolis stands to make two or three times as much money per book. If it is discovered, they simply return the money and make the buyer pay all additional costs. Seems like a way to rip people off.

 

I am surprised at Metropolis for handling it this way. The only fair way is to accept the book back and pay for any reasonable costs incurred by the buyer.

[NewWorldOrder]

Metro or any dealer has no reponsibilty to refund you for the CGC costs.

 

Same logic as if you bought something from me on eBay and you returned it me. I would refund you the comic price but def not the S/H.

 

 

 

 

I feel they are absolutely responsible for the costs related to the book. Metropolis not only misrepresented the book - I assumen unintentionally - but caused the buyer to expend additional funds. Now Metropolis will get back a better book than it sold (it has been slabbed, so future buyers won't have to factor in that cost) and the buyer who did nothing wrong is left with no book and less money than he started with through no fault of his own.

 

If I purchased a Detective #225 from you and you sent me #226. I would would expect you to give me my money back, including all shipping costs. Same thing goes here. Metropolis did not sell him what was promised and they should incur the additional costs. What the buyer did is reasonable and is not taking advantage fo the dealer in any way. If Metropolis does not make good on the additional costs, why would they ever bother to disclose restoration? If the buyer doesn't discover it, Metropolis stands to make two or three times as much money per book. If it is discovered, they simply return the money and make the buyer pay all additional costs. Seems like a way to rip people off.

 

I am surprised at Metropolis for handling it this way. The only fair way is to accept the book back and pay for any reasonable costs incurred by the buyer.

 

 

On the shipping costs I am sorry but you are 100% wrong, if you return a product to a store, do you ask for the gas moeny it took you to get the product back to them? Or how about if you return something via in the mail, most business's give you a 30-day money back return policy MINUS return S/H.

 

Metro and CGC are obviously 2 different companies. Metro did the right thing by taking the book back, but why should they incurr any expense as to CGC grading fees? One has nothing to do witht he other. Metro never said they would pay for CGC grading fees did they? NO, they said they will return the book if it found restored.

 

So if I buy a book from you and 5 years later I submitted it to CGC and its found restored should I contact you and ask for my money back as well as the CGC grading fees?

[PokerKid]

1. On the shipping costs when the company screws up, I do expect it. Amazon does it automatically, including when items are damaged in shipping (Something I would not expect a seller to do). If the error is on my end, I expect to pay the costs.

 

2. He didn't get the comic and change his mind. He was defrauded. He was sold an unrestored book but sent a restored one.

 

3. How long until a guy who defrauds you should be able to get away clean? Five years might be a bit long simply because it is possible someone else could cause damage or make the restoration. However, Metropolis doesn't seem to be making any kind of claim here. They are simply claiming they should not be responsible for selling a restored comic as being unrestored. Metropolis is a major dealer and has professionals who should be good at spotting restorations. A collector needs to rely on an outside source. If I agree to sell something and I don't deliver what I promise, I should be responsible for making you whole again - meaning not out any money.

 

 

 

[NewWorldOrder]

but that has nothing to do with CGC costs!

 

Its the buyer's choice to send the book to CGC, not Metro's.

 

I do understand what you are saying, but if I buy an book from Metro for 5K, and and I send it to CGC and it comes back restored, which cost 50.00, and I come back to Metro for a refund and they give me 5K back well they HAVE made me whole again from their business transaction.

 

The buyer by going to an outside consultant (CGC) bares all the costs.

 

or

 

the Buyer could have noticed the resto themselves for free and got their money back as well.

 

Metro again states they will return any found resto on any book they sell, but it never says they will pay for the means of finding out the restro by an outside company that charges a fee.

 

make sense?

[G.A.tor]

from metro's website:

UNRESTORED GUARANTEE: Metropolis guarantees that only books described as restored are restored. Before buying please read the comments field for the comic(s) you are interested in. In the rare case you discover a book Metropolis sold you as unrestored is restored Metropolis will give you a 100% refund within the first 30 days. After 30 days Metropolis offers a store credit redeemable toward any comic book purchase. This policy does not extend to any books that contain comments indicating any type or form of restoration. We consider books graded by CGC and placed into a blue, Universal holder to be unrestored. Customers are responsible for any expenses incurred in the discovery of restoration or shipping costs.

 

so, if metro did not already have this policy in place, then as a consumer, I would expect them to reimburse...but, because they do have the policy in place prepurchase, they should not reimburse...

 

don't get me wrong, it stinks that they missed the resto, and it stinks SN that you are left holding the "fee" bag, but at least you know, and you can base future purchases with that knowledge in hand (thumbs u

[PokerKid]

from metro's website:

UNRESTORED GUARANTEE: Metropolis guarantees that only books described as restored are restored. Before buying please read the comments field for the comic(s) you are interested in. In the rare case you discover a book Metropolis sold you as unrestored is restored Metropolis will give you a 100% refund within the first 30 days. After 30 days Metropolis offers a store credit redeemable toward any comic book purchase. This policy does not extend to any books that contain comments indicating any type or form of restoration. We consider books graded by CGC and placed into a blue, Universal holder to be unrestored. Customers are responsible for any expenses incurred in the discovery of restoration or shipping costs.

 

so, if metro did not already have this policy in place, then as a consumer, I would expect them to reimburse...but, because they do have the policy in place prepurchase, they should not reimburse...

 

don't get me wrong, it stinks that they missed the resto, and it stinks SN that you are left holding the "fee" bag, but at least you know, and you can base future purchases with that knowledge in hand (thumbs u

 

Thank Det. That does make a difference to me. I think it is a poor business practice but now also know to take that into consideration - and keep my fingers crossed on the GA books I just purcased from them last week.

[NewWorldOrder]

I guess I just dont understand why I would feel I am untitled to compensation from Metro for CGC grading and costs.

 

If metro gives me my money back from what I bought from them, then I have to eat the costs of CGC which sucks, but that's life.

 

I woulf rather loose 45.00 than the cost of the book itself.

[comicdonna]

Gees. I'm sorry to hear about the outcome of the book Sardo. According to Metro's policy that Rick dug up, they are not going to cover your grading fees. Buying raw GA books is tough.

 

Mike

[comicdonna]

I would rather loose 45.00 than the cost of the book itself.

This is a good point John!

[NewWorldOrder]

Hey Mike!

[TFL-migration]

It wasn't Metros decision to have the book sent to CGC for grading. It was the seller's. Metro missed the Restoration. I can't believe it was done on purpose. If you feel slighted with book. Take it out of the slab. Take pics of course. In the slab, being taken out of the slab, once again "raw'. Take the refund and move forward. Of course it is the buyers right to not deal with them ever again. As a good faith gesture. I would think Metro could of said sorry and said we will pay for half the CGC cost's. A nice gesture would go a long way in there customer return business.. But it is NOT something they have to do. Rather something to show a customer there ability to help there customers out in this rare incident. Metro now knows the book is indeed restored. So there actually ahead in this transaction. Even though the book may now be worth less than it was before.

[NewWorldOrder]

It wasn't Metros decision to have the book sent to CGC for grading. It was the seller's. Metro missed the Restoration. I can't believe it was done on purpose. If you feel slighted with book. Take it out of the slab. Take pics of course. In the slab, being taken out of the slab, once again "raw'. Take the refund and move forward. Of course it is the buyers right to not deal with them ever again. As a good faith gesture. I would think Metro could of said sorry and said we will pay for half the CGC cost's. A nice gesture would go a long way in there customer return business.. But it is NOT something they have to do. Rather something to show a customer there ability to help there customers out in this rare incident.

 

I believe we have the same business fundamentals.

[TFL-migration]

I have been on the bad end of buying books before. It is a bad feeling that's for sure. It is one thing to mislead someone with a known fact regarding a book. But an honest mistake is another thing all together. I know if I sold a raw book as un restored and it came back as restored. I'd refund the price of the book. Plus half of the CGC grading fee's. The buyer feels like I the seller have been fair. I as the seller now know the book is in fact restored. I would tell the next buyer of the restoration. While I may take a bit of a hit on the one book. I would also be known to be a honest seller. This knowledge of who is or isn't a good, honest seller does/will get around in the collecting world. Being known as a good honest seller will get future sales.

[Sardo Numspar]

Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the opinions raised by everyone, and most of what has been said seems based in logic.

 

I would just like to add a few points.

 

1) Every dealer has a responsibility to make accurate representations about the comics they sell. However, I believe internet dealers, such as Metro, have a greater duty to provide accurate information concerning a book they are selling online. The buyer (me) has no opportunity to see the book personally before the sale to make any independant assesment as to whether their claim of "unrestored" is in fact accurate.

 

2) If someone buys a painitng upon a seller's representation that it is an authentic piece of artwork, and an expert later tells the buyer that it is in fact a fake, the buyer will be able to recover the expert costs as part of his/her damages in litigation.

 

3) I feel confident that if I wanted to sue Metro for breach of contract/fraud/or misrepresentation, I could recover the costs of an expert (such as CGC), and if it can be demonstrated that the deception was intentional, Metro could be sued for punitive damages far and above the value of the book. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to have to sue Metro over $50.00 for CGC and shipping costs, but my point is that if the law allows you to recover those amounts, Metro should be required to pay all expenses which led to the discovery of their misrepresentation.

 

[fanfourforever]

Crack the book out of the slab before returning it.

[NewWorldOrder]

Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the opinions raised by everyone, and most of what has been said seems based in logic.

 

I would just like to add a few points.

 

1) Every dealer has a responsibility to make accurate representations about the comics they sell. However, I believe internet dealers, such as Metro, have a greater duty to provide accurate information concerning a book they are selling online. The buyer (me) has no opportunity to see the book personally before the sale to make any independant assesment as to whether their claim of "unrestored" is in fact accurate.

 

2) If someone buys a painitng upon a seller's representation that it is an authentic piece of artwork, and an expert later tells the buyer that it is in fact a fake, the buyer will be able to recover the expert costs as part of his/her damages in litigation.

 

3) I feel confident that if I wanted to sue Metro for breach of contract/fraud/or misrepresentation, I could recover the costs of an expert (such as CGC), and if it can be demonstrated that the deception was intentional, Metro could be sued for punitive damages far and above the value of the book. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to have to sue Metro over $50.00 for CGC and shipping costs, but my point is that if the law allows you to recover those amounts, Metro should be required to pay all expenses which led to the discovery of their misrepresentation.

 

You had the opportunity to view when you received the book in the mail, and you decided to get a "third" party involved to grade the book and get a restro check.

 

Actually if you want to be technical because you seem to be making a bigger deal of this than anyone really should.

 

Then find of whats CGC charges for the resto check and see what that fee and ask Metro for that because you have absoluely NO RIGHT TO RECOVERING for the grading of the book because the grading is subjective and can vary (CGC says so them selves), and Metro has NO obligation to you to pay for the grading process what so ever!

 

If any dealer sells me a book that he says its grades at a 9.6 and it comes back an 8.5, should I go back to the dealer and ask for my money backfor the grading service? off course NOT! So the resto check I will give you half credit on, but the whole grading fee is crazy to think you are entitled to that as well. You wante dit graded and you got back and return it to Metro. Their obligation is over!

 

Metro is one of the nicest and most professional dealers to deal with so feel lucky you didnt go to some fly by night dealer and gotten nothing back.

 

Its just common sense, dude come on.

 

[Sardo Numspar]

Thank you all for your comments. I appreciate the opinions raised by everyone, and most of what has been said seems based in logic.

 

I would just like to add a few points.

 

1) Every dealer has a responsibility to make accurate representations about the comics they sell. However, I believe internet dealers, such as Metro, have a greater duty to provide accurate information concerning a book they are selling online. The buyer (me) has no opportunity to see the book personally before the sale to make any independant assesment as to whether their claim of "unrestored" is in fact accurate.

 

2) If someone buys a painitng upon a seller's representation that it is an authentic piece of artwork, and an expert later tells the buyer that it is in fact a fake, the buyer will be able to recover the expert costs as part of his/her damages in litigation.

 

3) I feel confident that if I wanted to sue Metro for breach of contract/fraud/or misrepresentation, I could recover the costs of an expert (such as CGC), and if it can be demonstrated that the deception was intentional, Metro could be sued for punitive damages far and above the value of the book. Dont get me wrong, I dont want to have to sue Metro over $50.00 for CGC and shipping costs, but my point is that if the law allows you to recover those amounts, Metro should be required to pay all expenses which led to the discovery of their misrepresentation.

 

You had the opportunity to view when you received the book in the mail, and you decided to get a "third" party involved to grade the book and get a restro check.

 

Actually if you want to be technical because you seem to be making a bigger deal of this than anyone really should.

 

Then find of whats CGC charges for the resto check and see what that fee and ask Metro for that because you have absoluely NO RIGHT TO RECOVERING for the grading of the book because the grading is subjective and can vary (CGC says so them selves), and Metro has NO obligation to you to pay for the grading process what so ever!

 

If any dealer sells me a book that he says its grades at a 9.6 and it comes back an 8.5, should I go back to the dealer and ask for my money backfor the grading service? off course NOT! So the resto check I will give you half credit on, but the whole grading fee is crazy to think you are entitled to that as well. You wante dit graded and you got back and return it to Metro. Their obligation is over!

 

Metro is one of the nicest and most professional dealers to deal with so feel lucky you didnt go to some fly by night dealer and gotten nothing back.

 

Its just common sense, dude come on.

 

You make a good point on the fees just for resto detection versus grading, and I dont take issue with the grading. In fact, Metro hit the grade right square on the head. You have offered what I believe to be a fair compromise, and will likely present this option to Metro.

 

 

[Mac Man]

I'm with Spiderman-on-tilt for this one: the seller's policy was clearly stated. Whether or not you agree or disagree with it, there was no act of deception on Metro's part. They stated the only refund provided would be for the item itself and not the slabbing fees.