$66mm dark knight BO

[the_Greatest]

maybe you just dont believe the 'half' number. Maybe not really half then... if thats where the disagreement rests. Quick math would be to take 75% of what Batman Returns opened at as the expected fall off for this sequel according to accepted Hollywood stats for sequels. This film opened to 158 for the weekend, I dont remember what Returns did. But I was thinking 158 was roughly twice what 75% of what Returns comes to.

 

I understand your point. I'm just of the belief that the success of this movie has more to do with "average" people being surprised by how good Begins was, and deciding to see Knight when they heard it was great.

An example I would give is the box office the first Austin Powers sequel did compared to the first movie. What did it gross, four times as much? That's not the only example of that either. I've talked to plenty of people that have no interest in comics that thought Begins was a great movie and planned to see Knight because of it. I haven't met anyone that is going to the movie for the sole reason of seeing Heath Ledger.

I have to admit, it was a great and weird performance.

As far as the movie, walking out of the theater, we heard a lot of "I didn't think it was that great" comments.

[Aman619]

My experience with Returns was that many of those civilians who went to see it were disappointed. (it wasnt a HUGE hit after all, barely cracking 200 million on a similar sized budget) And they subsequently were not planning to see the next Batfilm. Many of these were around for the 90s wave of Bat films that they were also compelled to see because they were EVENT films back then, But were so soured by Bats 3 and 4 that they felt enough with Batfilms. Returns attracted many of them for one last shot since it was touted as a different kind of Batfilm.

 

So Some of these people were brought back into the fold and decided 2 years ago to see all the new Bale Batfilms as a result. BUT many others (like the ones sitting near me) had fallen asleep or were bored because as different as it was, it was still Batman running around.

 

Ledgers performance and critical ejaculations enticed THESE people back one more time. PLUS many more people who didnt see Returns. You know how it works: everyone you see is going and talking about a film, so you go even tho you had no intention or reason to only a week before.

[Hawkman]

another 76 million, 2nd week

[frankiecastle]

if the estimates don't change, will pass IM tomorrow. only question now is whether it hits $500mm domestic.

[awe4one]

I just got back from seeing it. Great movie with one minor caveat. Ledger did a much better Joker than I expected. Just a great performance. The caveat? The Two-Face scenes after leaving the hospital seemed tacked-on and not much for moving the story forward. Would have been much better to have left him recovering after the Joker visit and spending a little more time in the next movie fleshing out his transformation. As it was, it didn't seem very believable...

 

Jim

[Aman619]

thats what I thought too. Two face was too much tacked on at the end.

[tth2]

An example I would give is the box office the first Austin Powers sequel did compared to the first movie. What did it gross, four times as much?

You can't compare Austin Powers. The first Austin Powers movie was a relatively small budget comedy made when Mike Meyers was trying to prove he could do something more than Wayne's World. It became a cult classic through word of mouth and that opened the way for Spy Who Shagged Me to come out on a much bigger budget, more theaters and way more publicity.

[the_Greatest]

An example I would give is the box office the first Austin Powers sequel did compared to the first movie. What did it gross, four times as much?

You can't compare Austin Powers. The first Austin Powers movie was a relatively small budget comedy made when Mike Meyers was trying to prove he could do something more than Wayne's World. It became a cult classic through word of mouth and that opened the way for Spy Who Shagged Me to come out on a much bigger budget, more theaters and way more publicity.

 

Well, since the point I was arguing against was that sequels always have a built in drop off, and only Heath Ledger could account for this boost, I guess no number of sequels will satisfy you. I'll try one more. How much more did the second Matrix movie make?

Are you really going to tell me that people don't discover quality movies on DVD that entice them to the sequel? I'm guessing the producers pointed to the tremendous DVD success of Austin Powers when they pitched what the budget needed to be.

 

 

[tth2]

An example I would give is the box office the first Austin Powers sequel did compared to the first movie. What did it gross, four times as much?

You can't compare Austin Powers. The first Austin Powers movie was a relatively small budget comedy made when Mike Meyers was trying to prove he could do something more than Wayne's World. It became a cult classic through word of mouth and that opened the way for Spy Who Shagged Me to come out on a much bigger budget, more theaters and way more publicity.

 

Well, since the point I was arguing against was that sequels always have a built in drop off, and only Heath Ledger could account for this boost, I guess no number of sequels will satisfy you. I'll try one more. How much more did the second Matrix movie make?

Are you really going to tell me that people don't discover quality movies on DVD that entice them to the sequel? I'm guessing the producers pointed to the tremendous DVD success of Austin Powers when they pitched what the budget needed to be.

 

I understand what you're just saying, but I'm just saying that the phenomenon you're describing only happens when the first movie wasn't a huge, massively hyped blockbuster. Matrix is a great example, because like Austin Powers the first movie wasn't a massive hit initially, but developed a huge following AFTER the initial theatre release. By the time they made the sequels, Matrix had become a mainstream hit and the public was primed to make the sequels big box office hits that were capable of opening at zillions of theatres.

 

In contrast, Batman Begins got plenty of hype, lots of publicity, opened at lots of theatres, and was a big box office hit. If there hadn't been so much buzz about Heath Ledger, would the second movie have been that much more successful than the first movie, particularly backing out for inflation? I really don't think so.

 

I can only tell you anecdotally that quite a few people I know who never saw Batman Begins and generally wouldn't be caught dead seeing a comic book movie, no matter how big a blockbuster it was, went to see this movie because of (i) the buzz surrounding Heath Ledger's performance and (ii) to a lesser degree, the very positive critical reviews which said the movie transcended normal comic book movies.

[awe4one]

Matrix is a great example, because like Austin Powers the first movie wasn't a massive hit initially, but developed a huge following AFTER the initial theatre release.

 

That's not correct. The Matrix was a big hit right out of the gate, unexpected maybe, but a big hit nonetheless. Did 37Mil in it's first weekend (opened on a Wedsnesday) which was pretty good numbers in 1999. Good enough to be the #1 movie upon opening and stayed the #1 or 2 grossing movie for 5 weeks straight. It finished with $170+ Mil domestically during it's theatrical run...

 

Jim

[tth2]

Matrix is a great example, because like Austin Powers the first movie wasn't a massive hit initially, but developed a huge following AFTER the initial theatre release.

 

That's not correct. The Matrix was a big hit right out of the gate, unexpected maybe, but a big hit nonetheless. Did 37Mil in it's first weekend (opened on a Wedsnesday) which was pretty good numbers in 1999. Good enough to be the #1 movie upon opening and stayed the #1 or 2 grossing movie for 5 weeks straight. It finished with $170+ Mil domestically during it's theatrical run...

 

Jim

I stand corrected. Strange, I honestly don't even remember Matrix in the theatres, only after it came out on video.

 

Maybe it was because my Keanu Reaves filters were on...

[HouseofComics.Com]

Considering the cost of Batman Begins, was it all that big a hit in 2005? I know we boardies were disappointed as how quickly it petered out. But the reputation of the movie really grew from the DVD. I left the theater liking it a lot but not liking the ending much. But I've come to really appreciate it on DVD.

[Aman619]

it did close to 200 million so yes it was a big hit. But the budget was close to that so it was a really only a modest result. Hollywood much prefers the off 30 million picture that grosses 100 million. But Batman Begins did enough business overall to jumpstart the franchise again... and here we are.

[tth2]

it did close to 200 million so yes it was a big hit. But the budget was close to that so it was a really only a modest result.

That was just domestic gross, right? Add in global box office, plus DVD, cable, etc., and I'm sure the studios did very well for themselves.

[joe_collector]

In contrast, Batman Begins got plenty of hype, lots of publicity, opened at lots of theatres, and was a big box office hit. If there hadn't been so much buzz about Heath Ledger, would the second movie have been that much more successful than the first movie, particularly backing out for inflation? I really don't think so.

 

I'd have to agree with this, and I find it kinda bizarre that people would think that Ledgers death and subsequent "free promotion" would mean nothing to the bottom line.

 

People who would never go to a funny book movie, had heard the news and were intrigued by TDK.

[the_Greatest]

In contrast, Batman Begins got plenty of hype, lots of publicity, opened at lots of theatres, and was a big box office hit. If there hadn't been so much buzz about Heath Ledger, would the second movie have been that much more successful than the first movie, particularly backing out for inflation? I really don't think so.

 

I'd have to agree with this, and I find it kinda bizarre that people would think that Ledgers death and subsequent "free promotion" would mean nothing to the bottom line.

 

People who would never go to a funny book movie, had heard the news and were intrigued by TDK.

 

Batman Begins was not a big box office hit. Pirates of the Caribean was a big box office hit, and when people that didn't bother to see it at the theaters saw it on DVD, it made the first sequel a Box office SMASH, earning even 30% more.

I'm not saying the publicity about Ledger didn't help. I'm saying only a small % of people would say to themselves "I've got to see this movie ONLY because of Heath Ledger's performance". I know you're capable of seeing the distinction.

[joe_collector]

The only way this will be proven out is with the 3rd part of the trilogy.

 

If it makes less money than the second, then it's obviously due to Ledger. If not, and it makes even more (or the same), then it's the movie, story, writer, director, stars, etc.

[the_Greatest]

The only way this will be proven out is with the 3rd part of the trilogy.

 

If it makes less money than the second, then it's obviously due to Ledger. If not, and it makes even more (or the same), then it's the movie, story, writer, director, stars, etc.

 

No. It depends on how good people thought the Dark Knight was. Pirates 3 and Matrix 3 dropped off precipitously.

[joe_collector]

No. It depends on how good people thought the Dark Knight was.

 

Excuse me? It's been critically hailed, audience response ratings are off the charts, and TDK is currently the NUMBER ONE movie on IMDB with a crazy 9.4/10 rating.

 

To contend that audiences think TDK is worse than BB is idiotic.

[the_Greatest]

No. It depends on how good people thought the Dark Knight was.

 

Excuse me? It's been critically hailed, audience response ratings are off the charts, and TDK is currently the NUMBER ONE movie on IMDB with a crazy 9.4/10 rating.

 

To contend that audiences think TDK is worse than BB is idiotic.

 

Where did I say that I thought most people don't like it, or that a third movie won't do as well?

I said it depends more on how well people liked the movie.

If what you say accurately reflects the opinion of EVERYONE, and the few people I heard walking out of the theater saying " I didn't think it was that great" do not, then the odds are the third movie will be a smash too.

(thumbs u