Chuck at MidOhioCon

[drbanner]

Lastly,if you fault him for selling his books instead of holding them,then you must fault every single dealer in America for doing the same thing.

 

Exactly. Comic book investors buy books to hold on to and hope they appreciate. Comic book collectors buy books to read and enjoy.

 

Comic book dealers (like Chuck) buy books to sell, not to sit on. In any business selling tangible goods, the business model is to buy at wholesale and sell at retail, which is what CR did (actually, he bought WAYYY below wholesale and sold at WAYYY over retail, and undoubtedly got a return on his "investment" of thousands of percent). As you recall, he was widely criticized for his prices initially...and the books did not "fly off the shelves" when his catalog hit the stands. 20/20 hindsight is pretty sweet for armchair quarterbacks...

[garthgantu]

It's safe to say that Chuck didn't "maximize" the return on his "investment" (~$2,000) where the Church collection (I for one refuse to refer to it as 'the Mile High collection') is concerned. But that's true for anyone who doesn't sell at the very peak of the market - which is basically everyone, with the possible exception of Mark Cuban

 

On the other hand, Chuck was originally vilified for charging *too much* for the Church books. Now he's being mocked for not getting enough for them, or more precisely, for not hanging on to them long enough to realize more value from them.

 

I think it boils down to this: if you had 20,000+ high grade GA comics, and had to decide how best to apply the proceeds from the sale of those comics, would you necessarily sink the vast majority (perhaps ALL ?) of the proceeds into a chain of struggling comic shops? Even though I'm the farthest thing from a Chuckie fan, I gotta believe that somehwere Chuck has a Swiss bank account with a million or two in it... if not, then I think he coulda done a whole lot better with the collection. Frankly, I can't imagine selling all but one book from that collection, unless I was already living at No Fixed Address.

[drbanner]

I think it boils down to this: if you had 20,000+ high grade GA comics, and had to decide how best to apply the proceeds from the sale of those comics, would you necessarily sink the vast majority (perhaps ALL ?) of the proceeds into a chain of struggling comic shops?

 

Personally, no. But if your dream in life was to be a comic book store owner/retailer, then you're probably looking at those books as your ticket to the end-all-be-all.

 

There's a very succesful comic shop here in the Triangle area that is run by a great guy who graduated with an MBA, worked for a couple years, and then sold his pride and joy (Silver Age Spider-man collection) about 15 years ago to get capital to open the store (part of this story is first-hand, part second-hand but I know him and if Zonker still buys new books he knows him too). His store survived all the others that came and went in the early 90's, and in fact he opened a second store a couple years ago. He said if he ever got back into collecting, he'd go back after those Spideys, but knows that he can't become a collector again without giving up the shop.

 

This concept was discussed here at great length in one of the various investment threads, so it's a little weird to have people bash Chuck-the-collector for selling the books, but yet hold to the view that succesful comic book store owners have to divest themselves from being a collector in order to be a succesful store owner. Poor chuckie (and I'm no chuckie fan either) gets it both ways - he was persecuted for charging outlandish prices for the books back in the 70's, and these days he's ridiculed for selling them in the first place!?!?

[buttock]

Think? Try Michigan lost the last 2 years to the Bucks...also, both OSU and Michigan lost twice this year. Michigan just happened to lose one game non-conference .

 

Ah, you Buckeyes. How soon you forget that you lost 9 of the previous 10. Here, I will do the math for you since I am sure it is too tough for you: UofM has won the last 10 of 13! That is dominance, pure and simple.

 

As far as MHC, I am shocked that he only kept 1 MH1 comic, and it wasn't even the Action #1! The question is, what will he have left to help pick himself up if the market drops out on him again? There is no way his current garbage (read: inventory) can save him like the MH collection did in the past. You can only have so many 40% off sales!!!

 

Your O-line handled our D-line with little problem, and didn't even hold that much. That said, the rest of UM showed as little class as possible (and as much as you would expect) and embarrassed the university (eg Braylon Edwards cheap shot at Gamble's knees).

I'm glad you're happy with another 2 loss season. It's all you can hope for with Carr there.

[Timely]

Actually rumor has it that Chuck's Wife's (Nanatte) had the idea to charge over guide prices for the Church collection. When she first saw the collection she told Chuck the books were simply too nice to sell at guide and he should charge more.

 

So actually she is the initiator of "multiples of guide" in our hobby, not Chuck!

 

Timely

[garthgantu]

That's right - knock the last pillar out from under the guy... so what did Chuck invent - the "multiples of guide for mid-grade crapola" industry?

[ericc123]

And I believe the Action #1 only graded 8.5

 

I would say that is purely fictisous. I actually heard that the owner of the Mile High Action #1 doesn't want to have it CGC graded because he isn't selling. I mean if it was graded I'm sure there would be a picture of it somewhere (the gallery perhaps) My guess is that if there was a NM copy of Action #1 out there it would be the Mile High Copy.....haven't seen it to varify this but just making an assumption based on the rest of the collection. I guess only time will tell. How many unrestored VF+ Action books are on the census anyway? The only one I have ever seen (yes I have seen a pic of it) is not the Mile High copy.

 

Eric

[joe_collector]

How many unrestored VF+ Action books are on the census anyway?

 

I remember seeing one at a Sotheby's auction, and it was sweet. Let's not even talk about the final price, as I think a Rob Liefeld X-Force cover/art sold for more....

[ghoulaid]

" he still had them...and SOLD them all!! I know he says he was 'forced to' when the stores were going badly... He should have closed them down and sat on the comics and gotten a real job somewhere. He'd be better off."

 

I'm with you there. As a collector, I'd much rather have the comics. Unlike Chuck, it was never my goal to be the biggest comic dealer in the country. I fantasized about having the best collection in the country. That didn't happen either. If I had found the Church collection, I would have kept them and indexed all the issues for the historical information. Eventually, some would be sold but the first ones to go would be the Westerns, Romance and War titles. The LAST thing to go would be Action#1 (and most other superhero keys).

[sckao]

" he still had them...and SOLD them all!! I know he says he was 'forced to' when the stores were going badly... He should have closed them down and sat on the comics and gotten a real job somewhere. He'd be better off."

 

I'm with you there. As a collector, I'd much rather have the comics. Unlike Chuck, it was never my goal to be the biggest comic dealer in the country. I fantasized about having the best collection in the country. That didn't happen either. If I had found the Church collection, I would have kept them and indexed all the issues for the historical information. Eventually, some would be sold but the first ones to go would be the Westerns, Romance and War titles. The LAST thing to go would be Action#1 (and most other superhero keys).

 

 

If Chuck had sat on them and never sold them, would the comic market have evolved the same way?

 

 

[joe_collector]

If Chuck had sat on them and never sold them, would the comic market have evolved the same way?

 

No one is saying to sit on them all, but even the swarmiest dealer plays the trends, and that would mean holding back a selection of superhero keys.

 

Again, it's not that Chuck sold them all, but the fact that he frittered the money away on a big money-losing operation like MH. Maybe that was his "dream", but it certainly points towards a lack of business acumen.

 

Or to put it better, where would MHC be wthout the Church collection? A local soup kitchen?

[sckao]

If Chuck had sat on them and never sold them, would the comic market have evolved the same way?

 

No one is saying to sit on them all, but even the swarmiest dealer plays the trends, and that would mean holding back a selection of superhero keys.

 

Again, it's not that Chuck sold them all, but the fact that he frittered the money away on a big money-losing operation like MH. Maybe that was his "dream", but it certainly points towards a lack of business acumen.

 

Or to put it better, where would MHC be wthout the Church collection? A local soup kitchen?

 

True, Mile High Comics as a store chain may not have been the best use of the proceeds from the Church collection... but Chuck also seems to have a world class collection of pottery (from his own weekly emails). That's a fallback of an entirely different sort. Those comics may be worth millions nowadays, but the operating revenue and profit from his stores for the last 30 years must also be pretty significant.

 

I wonder what the valuation of Mile High Comics as a brand would be (or COULD have been if he hadn't accumulated such a bad reputation over the years).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[greggy]

And I believe the Action #1 only graded 8.5

 

I would say that is purely fictisous. I actually heard that the owner of the Mile High Action #1 doesn't want to have it CGC graded because he isn't selling. I mean if it was graded I'm sure there would be a picture of it somewhere (the gallery perhaps) My guess is that if there was a NM copy of Action #1 out there it would be the Mile High Copy.....haven't seen it to varify this but just making an assumption based on the rest of the collection. I guess only time will tell. How many unrestored VF+ Action books are on the census anyway? The only one I have ever seen (yes I have seen a pic of it) is not the Mile High copy.

 

Eric

The Mile High copy of Action 1 is not CGC graded. However, Steve Fishler from Metropolis noted in another thread that he believes that CGC would give it a 9.2!

[Rocketeer]

I stand corrected.

[garthgantu]

Better to stand corrected than stand undetected... unless you're the Invisible Girl, I guess...

[shadroch]

If and when Chuck chooses to retire,the liquidation of his inventory and the sale of his database will be more than needed to keep him from ever having to worry about much.The sales of the Church collection would not have done that back when he bought them.To suggest he sit on them for ten years and get a job is ludicris. Evidently his goal was to be the biggest comic dealer in the country and he came alot closer to fulfilling his dreams than most people.

While he is subject to a great deal of mockery on these forums, there is a segment of the comic world that holds him in high regard.

Dig out an old Overstreet from the 80s, or look at the ads in Marvel Comics.How many of his competitors from those days are still around?But it was all luck,right?

It's funny how the harder you work, the luckier you get.

his style is easy to make fun of,but give him his due.

At least don't critize him for both selling too cheap, and selling for too much.

[joe_collector]

How many of his competitors from those days are still around?But it was all luck,right?

 

Ummm, how many of his competitors had a Church collection fall into their laps for virtually nothing?

[shadroch]

How many of his competitors from those days are still around?But it was all luck,right?

 

Ummm, how many of his competitors had a Church collection fall into their laps for virtually nothing?

 

How long did the money from that last?According to Chuck it was almost all gone by the time he bought MH2.How many dealers around today were around for MH2? I looked into buying that collection with a bunch of fellow store owners and only two of the dozen or so stores involved are still in business and one has changed hands twice as employees bought out the owner.In April of 1988 ECBRA(east Coast Comic Book Retailers [!@#%^&^]. had its first dealer trade show. By 1996 around 75% of the represented stores were gone.Mile High lived on and had the mega-bucks needed to create his website and grow his mailorder business into the monste it is. Some people have all the luck.

[Aman619]

is the mail order business a money-maker? Hes always claiming theyre down to the end of their cash and having sale after sale to raise money. Is he (gasp) lying? and just "selling" us?

[PovertyRow]

Again, it's not that Chuck sold them all, but the fact that he frittered the money away on a big money-losing operation like MH. Maybe that was his "dream", but it certainly points towards a lack of business acumen.

 

SO you are saying achieving one's "dream" is worth less than having business acumen?