HooDeeDoo vs Motor City Comics

[Joanna]

As a collector, I just like to buy nice comics at a good price. I do not consider it my job to support anybody's particular business model, so don't come crying to me about your expense for this, how much you payed for that, etc. You're the one running the business, that's your problem. My only concern is books in your stock and how much I'll have to pay to get them.

 

If you have a book at 1.5x guide and I don't think it's worth it, I don't need to know or care about your purchasing snafus, and no amount of argument is going to make me say "Gosh, I guess I will pay 1.5x guide then!" It just sounds like whining.

 

But what about the customer who whines and complains? I had a book on ebay that I paid $275 for. I put it up at a loss (guide was $250,my minimum bid was $225 -- both the dealer and I had graded it higher than CGC did. It's the one book I've had CGC'd that I really felt was misgraded). It didn't sell, so I decided to just keep it. As soon as the auction ended, someone emailed me about the book. He offered me $175 with no charge for shipping and told me in autocratic tones that I absolutely had to accept his offer because of how generous he was being. I politely told him no thanks. He got upset, showing me a formula for how he arrived at the price and came very close to calling me stupid for not jumping at it. I again told him no, explaining that I would be losing too much money. He then lectured me on how little he cared what I paid for the book, and that his offer was nearly a charitable donation as it was.

 

I wasn't whining when I told him what I paid, I was merely explaining why his price wasn't sufficient for me. I really didn't give a hoot about his formula or his desire for a deal. I cared only about getting the price I'd set.

 

Even if you don't care what the dealer paid, I guarantee the dealer does. If you don't like the price, don't buy it, but don't complain either.

 

I saw earlier on the thread someone said that the buyer controls things. I disagree. I say both seller and buyer each have their share of control. It always takes two to make a deal. Buyers have the power to purchase or not, and sellers have the power to sell it or not. Thinking either has more power than the other is naive at best. I know I didn't need some cheap jerk telling me at what price I HAD to sell MY comic. Seems to me it was my decision whether or not to sell, not his -- the whiny little twerp.

 

-- Joanna

[blazingbob]

Thank you

 

Somebody finally gets it from my side of the table

[EZ_E]

re: -- the whiny little twerp.

 

 

 

Joanna,

 

Great terminology!

[blazingbob]

"If I was a dealer travelling to shows, I would not haul along material that has not been selling, at least not without marking it down. Most dealers have tons of stuff they could make money on and a limited amount of stuff they can bring, so why waste your own or anyone else's time?"

 

This is a very interesting comment. If a dealer knew what would sell at what show I would be a genius. I cannot tell you how many collectors have asked for books that I don't have at the show. Hint to all of you buyers, if it's on my site and you are coming to the show how about emailing me and asking me to bring it? What, you don't go online either. Telepathy isn't the answer I'm looking for.

 

Second comment - Ton's of stuff? Again, what stuff might that be? Ton's of modern, ton's of low grade, tons of high grade? What type of audience is the promoter bringing in? As a dealer I'm not at the door seeing what type of buyers are coming through the door prior to me bringing my inventory.

 

Last comment - Oh yes, Bring it all, 5 booths later, sames sales figure. Dealer is broke and will never do the show again.

 

 

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

I know I didn't need some cheap jerk telling me at what price I HAD to sell MY comic. Seems to me it was my decision whether or not to sell, not his -- the whiny little twerp.

 

At least you aren't holding a grudge or anything.

 

The gist of this thread, at least as I read it, is whether sticking firm to a price no one is willing to pay for books few people want to begin with is a sound business practice for a dealer. Motor City certainly has the right to stick to their price; no one is questioning that. But from my perspective, they alienated a good customer simply because they weren't even willing to budge a few bucks on otherwise unwanted/slow moving books.

 

Whats the benefit here to the dealer? The press that a thread on this board generates about their unwillingness to discount at all? The money that they sunk into the books being unavailable for reinvestment as the books remain unsold? All for what; the $10 difference that the poster would have been happy to receive as even a slight discount? Now consider that Motor City takes credit cards...how much of that $10 is left after the credit card surcharge if someone was going to pay via plastic?

 

[HooDeeDoo]

If you don't like the price, don't buy it, but don't complain either.

 

Here! Here!

 

However........

 

As a high grade collector, I hear non-high grade collectors carping "That book isn't worth that much! I want that book but I would NEVER pay that much for that book!" Well guess what, unless you're willing to pay that, you AREN'T ever going to own it because there will always be someone who WILL be willing to pay that for it, so shut your pie hole and stop the complaining. This was the point The High Priest of High Grade, Tom "THE MAN" Brulato was making in that thread that got many of you in a swivet, resulting in half of you on the floor, kicking and screaming and unable to see because you had your skirts over your heads. The high grade market exists in a parallel universe that has its own set of rules and logic - and sometimes illogic. Unless you travel in it on a regular basis, to the uninitiated, it's like stepping into a world where Spock wears a goatee and Sulu has a scar on his cheek. So, unless you have alot of experience buying 9.4/9.6 X-Men #94, you might be wise not to [!@#%^&^] and moan about the "true value" of one - miswrapped or otherwise.

 

However, again.........

 

When it comes to books that may be nice and cool but not REALLY special, if a dealer has a price on it that isn't in line with the market or Earth's reality, then I see no problem calling this to a dealer's attention. However, you'd better be RIGHT when you start calling their judgment into question, otherwise you're going to look like a "whiny little twerp".

 

I saw earlier on the thread someone said that the buyer controls things. I disagree. I say both seller and buyer each have their share of control. It always takes two to make a deal.

 

You made some very valid points but you're just wrong on this. A dealer may set the price but the buyer is the one who shells out the money, so until a book is actually SOLD, everything else is an academic exercise. Just like it takes two people to argue, without a buyer, there is no sale. Therefore, it is the buyer who is in control. Every market report is based upon what buyers do, not what dealers are asking.

 

A couple more things..........

 

Bob the Blazing is the most realistic dealer in the market. Very pragmatic and no one knows their better than him. When I look at his prices, I know that they're in line with the market. Are there prices I wouldn't pay? Sure. However, it's not because the prices are out of line with the market, it's because the book isn't worth that much to ME - however, I'm sure someone else will buy it. A perfect example is a book he offered me last month that I turned down. I thought the price was completely fair but because of a slight dust shadow on the back cover, I passed on the book. I knew full well that someone else would buy it and that it would probably be the last copy I ever saw in 9.4 of that book for sale but I have a thing about dust shadows on 9.4 books so I decided to save that money and use it for something else.

 

Bob the Blazing is a high-grade dealer (hence the name, High-Grade Comics, duh) so he gets more than the usual share of carping from buyers. So next time you see him, be nice, more than likely someone just ragged on him about a book they didn't have the money to buy in the first place.

[HooDeeDoo]

Now consider that Motor City takes credit cards...how much of that $10 is left after the credit card surcharge if someone was going to pay via plastic?

 

I NEVER even thought of that.

 

I always pay cash/check.

 

Why didn't I think of that?

 

[joe_collector]

So, unless you have alot of experience buying 9.4/9.6 X-Men #94, you might be wise not to [!@#%^&^] and moan about the "true value" of one - miswrapped or otherwise.

 

I'll be sure to take that under advisement... for about 2 seconds!!

 

[Illiterati-migration]

So, unless you have alot of experience buying 9.4/9.6 X-Men #94, you might be wise not to [!@#%^&^] and moan about the "true value" of one - miswrapped or otherwise.

 

I'll be sure to take that under advisement... for about 2 seconds!!

 

 

What kind of anti-depressants do they have you on, anyway?

[shadroch]

Slightly Back when I was a kid,I once approached a dealer and asked him how much a book was. He was busy and mumled what I thought was $14 and handed it to me to look at.

I wanted the book so when I got his attention(I could have walked off with the book as he was in deep convrsation with someone) I offered him $12. He grabbed the book from me ,called me an insufficiently_thoughtful_person and proclaimed loudly that that is why he hated NY shows. I later found out he wanted $40,not 14. If he had priced the books or even taken the time to speak clearly, there would have been no misunderstanding. He ruined my show by insulting me like that.

About ten years later, I was set up at a Creation show, and he was right across the aisle from me. For three days he attempted to be friendly and I rebuffed him. The last day he said he had a buyer back home for a book I hadn't yet sold. I told him to fu453k off,I wouldn't sell him [!@#%^&^] and left him to figure the source of my animosity.

Immature-yes. But it felt good.

[joe_collector]

What kind of anti-depressants do they have you on, anyway?

 

Don't do drugs kids!!

[blazingbob]

For the record here - I am not picking on Jive or Mark (HooDeeDoo) or supporting the "No Discount" method of selling.

 

Some of the biggest dealers support this method of selling, it's based on the belief that they have priced it fairly. I heard a very interesting statement made by a dealer. He stated that he has a "suggested grade" and a "suggested price". The grade is "suggested" since most people rarely agree on the grade. He suggests it's this grade, the collector suggests it's this grade. If they agree or disagree you come to the price. He wants his "suggested price", you want yours. Haggle, haggle, agree or disagree. The battle of wills begin, your word against theirs. You whip out a guide, he defends his price. If all goes well money is exchanged and both go away happy.

 

But when things don't go your way have you considered that there are other factors working here many of you miss.

 

Are you the cherry picker buying a dealers grading mistake(s). Oh come on boys, everybody makes mistakes and deep down you know he messed up. He looks at the book, he looks at the price and he knows it to. But just like clockwork, adding insult to injury you ask - "What's the best you can do?".

 

Are you a go for the throat lowballer? You know who you are, Any discount is never enough, you keep asking for more. One dealer in England who I shall not name never stops asking. 20%, 25%, 30%, how about 35%. How about I give them to you for nothing?

 

If a dealer gives you a good deal once, you never stop asking. Once a precedent has been set future transactions are based on the fact that if he did it once, he will do it again.

 

By the way, Are you the type of collector who will tell a dealer that the raw book he sold you for 1.35X came back a 9.6? Do the dealer a favor, don't tell him or her! No dealer wants to hear how much money you made flipping the book.

 

ND means just that, No discount.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

For the record here - I am not picking on Jive or Mark (HooDeeDoo) or supporting the "No Discount" method of selling.

 

This has been an awful lot of thought and energy spent on a thread that essentially revolves around a $10 difference of opinion.

 

Give me a good ole Hulk # 181 CGC 9.8 thread to debate.

 

 

[Foolkiller]

I'm not really sure what "ragging on the dealer" gets you anyway. I agree with Hoo... inquiring about a price is fine, and questioning it is even fine... but I've found that getting into protracted arguments or incessant complaining gets you nowhere. Dealers aren't ticked when you pass on a book, but they are ticked when you complain that ALL the prices are too high and then preach how you can get it cheaper on ebay. it's better to be polite and nice to these people and have them remember a positive experience... there are plenty of dealers I never buy a book from, but I'm still always friendly to when i see.

[fantastic_four]

There is a basic economic principle at work here: If you have an item priced at X, and no one offers X for it, you drag it around to all the major shows and get no takers at X, have it on your website and in your catalog still without a sale at X, put it up on Ebay at X and garner not a single bid, give it up. The market value of the item is clearly not X.

 

How long do you give it before you decide with finality that the market value of the item is clearly not X? One month? Six months? One year?

 

I expect this trend of dealers having to overpay for uncommon comics to only increase as time goes on and more and more people decide to sell directly to other collectors via E-Bay, ComicLink, etc, and totally circumvent dealers.

[Rip]

[blazingbob]

Ebay - Charges to sell, item doesn't always sell, they own paypal which also charges fees to complete the transaction. Ebay is a great company, they have taken the IRS and tax system model to a new level.

 

Comiclink - Is a dealer

 

Almost all collectors are this board are dealers in disguise. Buying and selling is what dealers do, many of you do the same, therefore you are "dealers".

 

Now, if I can only find one of those "collectors".

 

[goldust40]

Are you a go for the throat lowballer? You know who you are, Any discount is never enough, you keep asking for more. One dealer in England who I shall not name never stops asking. 20%, 25%, 30%, how about 35%. How about I give them to you for nothing?

 

If a dealer gives you a good deal once, you never stop asking. Once a precedent has been set future transactions are based on the fact that if he did it once, he will do it again.

 

Yes, Bobby boy, I certainly know who I am. And thank you most kindly for your testimonial. Strangely enough you never had quite enough disrespect not to take my money, you curmudgeonly old sod.

 

But seriously, after the amount of times I've lauded you to other dealers and having gotten used to your enforced "x% off, take it or leave it" ceiling I thought that was harsh. Then again, maybe I've misjudged all the joking and verbal swordplay - beneath the humour lurked a well of anger and mounting frustration, all squarely aimed at me, the Anglo-Saxon pain in the bum. (I have a persecution complex, you know). How I didn't spot this from your totally non-surly demeanour is really an absolute mystery.

 

If I pushed you too far (I thought all our dealings were based on the assumption that I never quite did this) then I can only apologize. And I have to confess that I didn't quite expect to see the above post from a dealer steeped in such dignity and as cherished and highly thought of as yourself. However next time (assuming there is one, after this post) in order to expedite my desire for excessive discounts, simply lower ALL your prices 35%. I promise you won't hear a peep from me after that.

 

[joe_collector]

Now, if I can only find one of those "collectors".

 

Right here, waiting on the Bronze Age list...

[drbanner]

Are you a go for the throat lowballer? You know who you are, Any discount is never enough, you keep asking for more. One dealer in England who I shall not name never stops asking. 20%, 25%, 30%, how about 35%. How about I give them to you for nothing?

 

If a dealer gives you a good deal once, you never stop asking. Once a precedent has been set future transactions are based on the fact that if he did it once, he will do it again.

 

Yes, Bobby boy, I certainly know who I am. And thank you most kindly for your testimonial. Strangely enough you never had quite enough disrespect not to take my money, you curmudgeonly old sod.

 

But seriously, after the amount of times I've lauded you to other dealers and having gotten used to your enforced "x% off, take it or leave it" ceiling I thought that was harsh. Then again, maybe I've misjudged all the joking and verbal swordplay - beneath the humour lurked a well of anger and mounting frustration, all squarely aimed at me, the Anglo-Saxon pain in the bum. (I have a persecution complex, you know). How I didn't spot this from your totally non-surly demeanour is really an absolute mystery.

 

If I pushed you too far (I thought all our dealings were based on the assumption that I never quite did this) then I can only apologize. And I have to confess that I didn't quite expect to see the above post from a dealer steeped in such dignity and as cherished and highly thought of as yourself. However next time (assuming there is one, after this post) in order to expedite my desire for excessive discounts, simply lower ALL your prices 35%. I promise you won't hear a peep from me after that.

 

What ever happened to the Anglo-American alliance??

 

Over the last year or two, there has been an incredible demand for American comics (not pence copies, mind you!) from English collectors/dealers. No wonder Harley hauled all those books over to the UK show last month!!