HooDeeDoo vs Motor City Comics

[blazingbob]

And yes it is a hunt.

 

Watch a new collection come into a show before it opens and watch how "friendly" we all are. A good definition would be to watch a Discovery show about Raptors.

 

 

[towards2112]

100 plus posts on this topic.

Musta been a slow day at the day job.

I blew out early to work on scanning some

comics for the website..............

[drice6900]

What is an ingenue?

 

It's a pretty 16yo girl wearing a tight low-cut cashmere sweater, who, when she approaches your booth, bends over onto your boxes, brings her elbows together and clasps her hands, and then, while looking up at you and batting her eyes, says to you in her most Catholic schoolgirl voice: "Hello. I know very little about comic books, but Reed Richard's super power intrigues me. After the show is over, could we go somewhere so you can explain to me how he does that?"

 

 

[garthgantu]

What is an ingenue?

 

It's a pretty 16yo girl wearing a tight low-cut cashmere sweater, who, when she approaches your booth, bends over onto your boxes, brings her elbows together and clasps her hands, and then, while looking up at you and batting her eyes, says to you in her most Catholic schoolgirl voice: "Hello. I know very little about comic books, but Reed Richard's super power intrigues me. After the show is over, could we go somewhere so you can explain to me how he does that?"

 

 

See, here's where HooDee really shines... he gives you a great example of the word, IN CONTEXT, with the nice visuals and all the trim...er, trimmings you expect in a quality post. For the older fogies in the crowd...do you think she'd settle for Plastic Man...?

[supapimp]

What is an ingenue?

 

It's a pretty 16yo girl wearing a tight low-cut cashmere sweater, who, when she approaches your booth, bends over onto your boxes, brings her elbows together and clasps her hands, and then, while looking up at you and batting her eyes, says to you in her most Catholic schoolgirl voice: "Hello. I know very little about comic books, but Reed Richard's super power intrigues me. After the show is over, could we go somewhere so you can explain to me how he does that?"

 

 

you're going to burn in hell.

[Drummy]

This has been a fun thread to read. Here's my two cents:

 

The first thing I'll admit since getting back to comic collecting six years ago is that I haven't found a collecting strategy that has "stuck" for more than a couple years. I have solid but not exceptional resources to put into comics, and I'm an impulsive and often impatient person, so I often will sell books I've bought in order to make financial room for other books. So what does this make me? An indecisive collector and a poor seller, although I've probably broken even on my sales because I'm alert enough to know the general market prices. But am I a dealer?

 

Personally, I consider myself a collector who buys and sells. To me, "seller" and "dealer" don't have the same meanings, although there is a grey area. Anyone who sells a book to a friend, lists books on Ebay, or lists through Comiclink is definitely a seller. A dealer, however, is associated with some company or business whose sole intent is to make a profit through the selling of comic books and related material. Now someone like Bob could be considered only a collector and a seller, but "Highgradecomics.com" puts him in the dealer category with its website, big inventory, appearance at national shows, etc. It's a business, and he's in it to make money. By this same definition, I am not a dealer but rather a collector who sells regularly in order to fund other purchases with only a slight regard for profit. If I can break even or get 10%, great! But I often sell at a loss, too. Other dealers like Motor City, or those who hang on for years until they get the price they want/need, must be concerned about the profits. (This is sometimes shortsighted, because you never know when the small loss will turn into a big gain when the happy customer returns again and again and suddenly has more money to spend! That's about building relationships, not just the immediate profit.)

 

With Forum members I can work out agreements or trades without worrying too much about losing money, or if I do lose money it's in the cause of a friendly and mutually beneficial (especially with trades) transaction. With every dealer I've ever spoken with, it's the profit margin that determines whether a deal gets done, and that's about it. Which is as it should be! Buying and selling comics is about dollars and sense, not friends and favors, although the more of the latter that seeps in the better.

 

ONE thing that bugs me about any seller, dealer or otherwise, is inconsistency. I respect dealers who are consistent in their pricing, their negotiations, and their attitude toward buying books. Dealers are not my friends, although we can certainly be friendly. I don't look for dealers to give me big discounts so I can feel like an important insider and improve my self-esteem, but I do want to be treated with respect. For example, one major dealer set up shop at the Chicago show a few years ago and quoted a price for two early Avengers books in high grade. I counter-offered, and they wouldn't move. That in itself was fine. What really got me hot was checking their website later and finding the books listed there at MY offering price (or lower!). So essentially some yahoo could buy the book off their website, but the guy who takes the time to come to Chicago and meet the dealers in person and look at the comics should get gouged for any possible hint of profit. Bad form, in my opinion, and I try not to buy from them anymore. They've lost out on lots of my money over the years for no good reason.

 

Sorry - that was probably off topic, but those are my thoughts for now.

 

Dan

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Good post Dan...by the way, did your books arrive intact and unscathed?

[Foolkiller]

ONE thing that bugs me about any seller, dealer or otherwise, is inconsistency. I respect dealers who are consistent in their pricing, their negotiations, and their attitude toward buying books. Dealers are not my friends, although we can certainly be friendly. I don't look for dealers to give me big discounts so I can feel like an important insider and improve my self-esteem, but I do want to be treated with respect. For example, one major dealer set up shop at the Chicago show a few years ago and quoted a price for two early Avengers books in high grade. I counter-offered, and they wouldn't move. That in itself was fine. What really got me hot was checking their website later and finding the books listed there at MY offering price (or lower!). So essentially some yahoo could buy the book off their website, but the guy who takes the time to come to Chicago and meet the dealers in person and look at the comics should get gouged for any possible hint of profit. Bad form, in my opinion, and I try not to buy from them anymore. They've lost out on lots of my money over the years for no good reason.

 

Sorry - that was probably off topic, but those are my thoughts for now.

 

 

Actually that's a very good story... there are very few books that are so rare... especially silver marvels that you can't wait for another copy to surface... even in grade. Now if you want a 9.9 or 9.8... you might be waiting a very long time... but dealer behaviour is often times the reason you do or do not stick with certain people. Developing a relationship is very important, but it's a two way street... you have to treat the dealer with courtesy and respect too, especially if you want to be treated the same way.

[garthgantu]

I agree with Foolkiller's last comments completely. There are LCSs that I patronize as much to just 'do my part' to keep 'em open as to fill holes in title runs. It doesn't take much effort to ingratiate yourself to a current or prospective customer... just as it doesn't take much to alienate the same current/prospective customer.

[fantastic_four]

A dealer is someone who makes a living from selling comic books.

 

Not necessarily. Bob is a good example...his day job is computers and he just deals at nights and on weekends. I further differentiate the different types of dealers by calling them "professional" or "amateur," where the difference is that a pro makes their primary living from comics and an amateur doesn't. I might be wrong, but I assume Bob is technically an amateur dealer...unless he's making more from comics than he is at Verizon!

[fantastic_four]

It's like comic books have reached their apex with CGC, everyone's high-grade crazy, and it's not as fun to go to a show and see the same books, over and over, at the same outlandish prices.

 

Like many have said before, this boat has long since sailed, and woe is he who enters now with a stack of money.

 

God I wish more people thought like this...it would make my convention hopping HUGELY successful instead of just mildly so.

[HooDeeDoo]

For example, one major dealer set up shop at the Chicago show a few years ago and quoted a price for two early Avengers books in high grade. I counter-offered, and they wouldn't move. That in itself was fine. What really got me hot was checking their website later and finding the books listed there at MY offering price (or lower!).

 

NAMES! WE WANT NAMES!!!!

[Foolkiller]

i don't think i'd call bob an amateur dealer.

[fantastic_four]

FF - I think this is ridiculous. To use your own previous examples of Bob (who has a personal collection) and Comgeek (who does not) I would feel very comfortable buying a book from EITHER one of them. You can't make a blanket statement like that, you should use a case by case basis. To think that Comgeek doesn't have ample experience because he doesn't have a personal collection baffles me.

 

You partially misunderstood my definitions. Neither Bob nor Lauderbach are dealing collectors--you and I are, and it's us I don't trust as much. Comgeek is a dealer and Bob is a collecting dealer. Go back and re-read.

[Foolkiller]

FF: No offense, but I think these distinctions are rediculous. If you set up at shows with any kind of regularity, you're a dealer, plain and simple. You want to start splitting hairs, that's fine... but if you have a complex website like Bob's and you're at a lot of major national cons, then you have a side business... he's as much a professional to me as Josh Nathanson or John Verzyl. Micro analyzing the distinction doesn't make any sense... collecting dealer? who isn't a collecting dealer outside of comgeek?

 

And I guess my bottom line is... what's the point of these distinctions? How do these definitions help us understand dealers, buying or selling any better?

 

Not trying to be a jerk... but I'm not sure where you were going with those distinctions.

[fantastic_four]

i don't think i'd call bob an amateur dealer.

 

I wasn't using the term "amateur" as a direct reflection of his skill or selling practices, but as a synonym for "part-time," much like the terms "amateur" versus "professional" are used in sports or by the IRS.

[Aman619]

Okay Bob, Ill direct this to you as you have made the distictive arguments so far (you cute lil' ingenue you!)

 

Let me try to understand to the difference between a dealer and a collector with a question: You are a collector dealer, or a dealer who still collects, right? So to me, that means like so many others here on the boards, that you are buying and selling in order to purchase comics ultimately to keep in your collection.

 

So the difference would be, then, if someone offerred you the right Amount of $$$ for ALL your books, your dealer inventory AND your collection, would you make the deal? What I mean is, are ALL your books for sale at the right price? Or are some NFS at ANY price?

 

It would seem that THAT is the difference between a dealer and a collector, and all those of us somewhere in-between. Any level of "collector" would NOT sell their collection except to buy books to ADD to their collection. Selling it ALL would negate that and make one a "dealer"

 

Frankly, to me, anyone who pays for booths, has business cards and sets up at a show...is a dealer.

 

Hi. Im Aman, I'm a collector, thenk yew veddy much!

[fantastic_four]

If you set up at shows with any kind of regularity, you're a dealer, plain and simple.

 

You are correct; dealer is a more generic term.

 

 

who isn't a collecting dealer outside of comgeek?

 

The average E-Bay seller. Most of us are dealing collectors. Bob was suggesting that everybody on E-Bay is a dealer, which is why I shared my terminology, to differentiate sellers on e-bay.

 

 

And I guess my bottom line is... what's the point of these distinctions? How do these definitions help us understand dealers, buying or selling any better?

 

I originally came up with the terms to help categorize buyers and sellers to make it more efficient for me to remember who I was dealing with and how I should go about dealing with them. A pure dealer buys only for profit; if he can't make a buck, he's not going to care about what you're offering him--cold, hard cash is their sole consideration. A collecting dealer will look at a book differently and pay more for it if it's a candidate for their collection. A dealing collector cares more about whether it's going to fit into their collection than a collecting dealer; usually they'll pay market prices for books, or just below market if they think they can flip or trade it. Pure collectors only buy what they collect and don't care about the rest unless you're able to convince them they should start collecting a new title.

 

Figuring out what category someone falls into helps me figure out how to approach deals. Collectors tend to pay the most, dealing collectors pay second most, collecting dealers pay a little less, and pure dealers pay the least. These are all relative comparisons, not absolute...obviously some dealers pay higher prices than others.

[Foolkiller]

I originally came up with the terms to help categorize buyers and sellers to make it more efficient for me to remember who I was dealing with and how I should go about dealing with them. A pure dealer buys only for profit; if he can't make a buck, he's not going to care about what you're offering him--cold, hard cash is their sole consideration. A collecting dealer will look at a book differently and pay more for it if it's a candidate for their collection. A dealing collector cares more about whether it's going to fit into their collection than a collecting dealer; usually they'll pay market prices for books, or just below market if they think they can flip or trade it. Pure collectors only buy what they collect and don't care about the rest unless you're able to convince them they should start collecting a new title.

 

Figuring out what category someone falls into helps me figure out how to approach deals. Collectors tend to pay the most, dealing collectors pay second most, collecting dealers pay a little less, and pure dealers pay the least. These are all relative comparisons, not absolute...obviously some dealers pay higher prices than others.

 

Well... then who of the major dealers aren't plain old dealers under your definitions... they all are... Since we're using the Blazing One as an example... unless it's a 9.4 FF he doesn't already have... I can't think of too many books he wants... so every book he buys is to make a profit. To me, all the major dealers might still be looking for a unique piece, but the vast, vast majority are profit only. I also contest the assertion of the price framework outside the two distinctions: collectors will pay more than a dealer (generally). But other than that, customer demand drives the payment structure for most books... I've never seen any evidence of dealers in your framework of dealers paying inside that structure.

[blazingbob]

I collect, I have a personal collection but if someone offers me the right price I will sell it. However, my personal collection is "my personal collection". If dealers say they have one, collectors always assume you have the better copy in your collection. I have very few Spiderman's left, I sold them during the movie frenzy and don't regret it one bit. I have a very extensive FF collection as well as other titles but ultimately the minute you mention you have a collection the persistent emails start. Can you sell me this, can you sell me this, can you sell me this, how about if I give you this, can you sell me this, what else do you got, .

 

Eventually they forget I have an inventory and focus on nothing but my collection. And my business is to sell my INVENTORY, not my collection.