• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

HooDeeDoo vs Motor City Comics

Started by HooDeeDoo,

144 posts in this topic

fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
Well... then who of the major dealers aren't plain old dealers under your definitions... they all are... Since we're using the Blazing One as an example... unless it's a 9.4 FF he doesn't already have... I can't think of too many books he wants...so every book he buys is to make a profit.

 

I don't know what Bob still collects, but I know there are plenty of dealers who still collect. I talk to them at shows a lot and see or hear about the stuff they've bought lately. I'm not speaking for Bob, I'm just using him as an example...but since you say every book he buys is to make a profit, I guess you know--Bob is no longer a collector. I wonder if he knows? blush.gif

 

 

I've never seen any evidence of dealers in your framework of dealers paying inside that structure.

 

You can't see a dealer paying a higher price for a book that's going into their collection? Why not?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Foolkiller

Foolkiller

Posted
Posted

Then you're boiling your argument down to just a question of access... Bob just put a good framework of his separation... his inventory is separate from his collection... so... if you offer him a book for his collection and he pays higher than he would for his inventory... really all you're saying is that he's acting with his "collector hat" on and will pay higher... how's that any different than saying collectors pay higher than dealers? There may be other dealers who buy more for their collections, but again, most dealers have extensive collections already (or had them at one point)... now they're almost done... so the two worlds are basically separate.

 

Again... I can't think of too many major dealers who are truly active collectors... most are full fledged dealers... especially if they continuously set up. Even someone like Flying Donut... he does buy books, but the vast, vast majority of his business is internet stuff... and I tend to believe he's buying books primarily to make a profit on them, and only the odd piece here and there for the personal collection.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted

really all you're saying is that he's acting with his "collector hat" on and will pay higher... how's that any different than saying collectors pay higher than dealers?

 

Because the term "collecting dealer" fits better and is easier to type into my address book than "dealer who acts with his collector hat and will pay higher." tongue.gif It's just for efficiency in recollection, communication, and fact-keeping. Coming up with fewer words to describe a more complex phenomenon is the natural evolution of knowledge.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
goldust40

goldust40

Posted
Posted
really all you're saying is that he's acting with his "collector hat" on and will pay higher... how's that any different than saying collectors pay higher than dealers?

 

Because the term "collecting dealer" fits better and is easier to type into my address book than "dealer who acts with his collector hat and will pay higher." tongue.gif It's just for efficiency in recollection, communication, and fact-keeping. Coming up with fewer words to describe a more complex phenomenon is the natural evolution of knowledge.

 

Collector/dealer or Dealer/collector, or whatever are basically terms that don't make much sense if you think about it. To be one is to come into direct conflict with being the other. To be a true dealer you have to have no emotional attachment to your stock. To be a true collector there's usually a sentimental tie to every book. A REAL collector will generally have an accumulation of items that he or she will not sell at any price. Ian Levine is a good example of this. Blazing Bob differentiates between his inventory and his collection, and then mentions that he'd sell any book he possesses based on prevailing market trends. He's a dealer.

 

Yes, there's the vast gray area in between, but if you approach buying and selling as a business, you're a dealer. If you buy and sell but it's only to enhance your collection, you're a collector.

 

I guess that the definitions boil down to the individual and how he feels that particular day, or hour, even.

 

I have one example of a real collector - an acquaintance of mine bought an early F.F. in the VF range this year, and showed it to another dealer, who immediately offered him over the odds on it - double what he paid for the book. He turned down the dealer without a thought, stating that he wanted the book, and that was that. He could've made almost $1000 profit by flipping, all for the effort of walking a few yards across a convention aisle. Wasn't interested. THAT's a collector.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
I have one example of a real collector - an acquaintance of mine bought an early F.F. in the VF range this year, and showed it to another dealer, who immediately offered him over the odds on it - double what he paid for the book. He turned down the dealer without a thought, stating that he wanted the book, and that was that. He could've made almost $1000 profit by flipping, all for the effort of walking a few yards across a convention aisle. Wasn't interested. THAT's a collector.

 

You don't know dealers who do this for books they don't see very often? And what if your acquaintance finds a NM- copy of that FF issue, and then sells the VF...do you mentally erase his name out of the "collector" category and put him under "dealer"?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
goldust40

goldust40

Posted
Posted
I have one example of a real collector - an acquaintance of mine bought an early F.F. in the VF range this year, and showed it to another dealer, who immediately offered him over the odds on it - double what he paid for the book. He turned down the dealer without a thought, stating that he wanted the book, and that was that. He could've made almost $1000 profit by flipping, all for the effort of walking a few yards across a convention aisle. Wasn't interested. THAT's a collector.

 

You don't know dealers who do this for books they don't see very often? And what if your acquaintance finds a NM- copy of that FF issue, and then sells the VF...do you mentally erase your his name out of the "collector" category and put him under "dealer"?

 

I can't argue that it's impossible for words such as "dealer" and "collector" to be set in stone. However, a bit of context might help here - what this man did was typical of him. He rarely (if ever) sells, and profit is never a motive. For a dealer, this would be atypical behaviour.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Timely

Timely

Posted
Posted

I think there are better terms than the ones you guys are using to describe dealers. I would say there are full-time delaers and part-time dealers. Guys like Metro and Motor City are full-time. If you derive most of your income and spend most of your time dealing comics, then you are full-time. If not you are a part-time dealer or something else.

 

Nuff said. makepoint.gif

 

Timely

Link to comment
Share on other sites
ubiquiti

ubiquiti

Posted
Posted

Holy snot this is a long thread.

Bob - I don't care what you are classified as, you're okay by me.

All this banter back and forth about classifications and who is a dealer and who is not really induces vertigo. juggle.gifjuggle.gifjuggle.gif

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
lighthouse

lighthouse

Posted
Posted

I'm not really sure what to say here, but I hate to let this thread go by without contributing...

 

I wouldn't view books that have gone to three shows as being ready for the bargain bin. Ask any dealer in the country if they'd be happy to turn 1/6th of their inventory at every show and I think the votes would be unanimous. A lot of collectors are under the impression that dealers leave shows empty-handed, it's just not so...

 

The choice between selling in five shows at a 30% markup or seven shows at a 40% markup comes down to whether you have a ready supply of new material to buy. If you don't have books to roll the money into, it's sometimes better to hang onto the stuff you have a little longer...

 

As for the dealer-collector argument, I don't know that there even is one anymore... I own around 300,000 comics. Of those, about 800 are in my "collection". Of those there are only five books that are not for sale at any price. But I do consider myself a collector as well as a dealer... Go figure...

 

The real change with eBay has been the upward sliding of wholesale values. It used to be that collectors would never sell, because the wholesale value they would get from stores was 10% or less. When it became possible for any random guy to get 20-30% of retail, a lot more people became part-time dealers. Dumping a third of your unwanted collectibles to buy stuff you really wanted was an exercise in futility for many people before eBay, now it's commonplace... The only true "collectors" any more seem to be the people without internet access... Most anyone else is a part-time dealer....

Link to comment
Share on other sites
thanos_oftitan

thanos_oftitan

Posted
Posted

Unless the IRS says your a dealer, then you're a collector..... wink.gif

 

I bought a few CGC books from Motor City at the last PGH comicon and couldn't have been more pleased. I was able to get a couple hundred knocked off the total. After the deal was done I noticed a book I had been looking a long time for, the kid thru it in no charge!

 

thumbsup2.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Freiherr

Freiherr

Posted
Posted

After reading all of this, I am almost glad that no comic shows come near my area (Memphis, TN). Of course never being at one, I am sure there are some nice things I am missing out on.

 

Luckily, we have one shop that has a large selection. The guys who run the store are great and show much appreciation to their regular customers. They worked with me on a few comics back when I was collecting heavily. I also do not recall ever seeing a comic priced over guide or anything resembling a “ND” tag (but that might be only a show thing).

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Zanarkand

Zanarkand

Posted
Posted

But what about the customer who whines and complains? I had a book on ebay that I paid $275 for. I put it up at a loss (guide was $250,my minimum bid was $225 -- both the dealer and I had graded it higher than CGC did. It's the one book I've had CGC'd that I really felt was misgraded). It didn't sell, so I decided to just keep it. As soon as the auction ended, someone emailed me about the book. He offered me $175 with no charge for shipping and told me in autocratic tones that I absolutely had to accept his offer because of how generous he was being. I politely told him no thanks. He got upset, showing me a formula for how he arrived at the price and came very close to calling me stupid for not jumping at it. I again told him no, explaining that I would be losing too much money. He then lectured me on how little he cared what I paid for the book, and that his offer was nearly a charitable donation as it was.

 

Not to exclude these wonderful people! grin.gif Tales From Both Sides of the Table could (and probably will) keep us entertained for weeks. I was only relating the Irrational Dealer side of the story.

 

I myself received and mocking and insulting email regarding one of my recent auctions. I posted this in another thread. Some buyers act like they're doing you a favor. Maybe this approach works for them, who knows?

 

Since this thread started about unconventional (get it?) dealer behavior, I wrote about that.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
rinnson-migration

rinnson-migration

Posted
Posted

IMO, the topic of whether or not one is a dealer is a completely waste of time. Pretty much all of you "you guys" are dealers. Mr. Woodcock included. You ever see Mr. Woodcock sell of book. Absolute greed in his eyes. Try it sometime,. You will find it amusing.

This entire post is called dancing on the head of pin.

At least dealers like Motor City, Metropolis and Yee are honest enough to label themselves with honesty.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing