Do You List a Printer's Crease As a Defect When Selling Your Comics?

[VintageComics]

There are many books that are famous for having printer's creases.

 

JIM #86 comes to mind, as well as Weird War #1. Can't think of any others but they are out there.

 

 

[Mutant Manatee]

could someone post a pic of such a crease please. i am new to the term.

 

 

Here's a good example from the Can You Spare A Grade threads:

 

House of Mystery #68

 

 

[LordRahl]

If CGC does not consider it a defect, why should any sellers? If you're concerned about them, ask for a back cover scan.

***********

 

Before CGC came a long a lot of people in this hobby/business did consider them a defect. One on the FC is Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?-lee. I would be very ticked off to get a slabbed 9.6 that had one on the front cover.

 

CGC has decided that all sorts of printing defects/miswraps, etc. that many old skool types considered grade deductions simply don't matter. Sure, those old skool types tended to be more loosey goosey when it came to other stuff, but.....

 

I suppose one exception MIGHT be when the bulk of a print-run has the defect. Don't Howard the Duck #1s often have the printer's crease on the FC?

 

Yeah, well, before CGC came along a lot of people in this business considered todays VF to be NM. So maybe we should just go back to the "old school way". You can't have it both way people. Either you buy into CGC's concept of grading or you don't. If you buy CGC books, then you are abiding by their grading standards. If you don't agree/like their standards, don't buy graded books. Or ask about certain things that bother you that aren't downgraded by CGC.

 

As a seller, I pay CGC for a service that includes a grade. There's an implicit agreement between buyer and seller that you are agreeing to a certain established grading criteria based on a third party opinion. This facilitates the transaction because as we all know everyone has an opinion on grading and how certain defects effect a grade, and a lot of the time those opinions are different. Just like I'm not going to list every spine tick and corner bend on a 9.4 book, I'm not going to list a printer's crease. The grade is what it is. As a buyer, do your due diligence if you are concerned. Your laziness as a buyer does not constitute a problem on my part as a seller.

 

Disclaimer... I buy far more than I sell, so JC please don't give me that "typical seller mentality" krap.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Either you buy into CGC's concept of grading or you don't. If you buy CGC books, then you are abiding by their grading standards.

 

, I just love reading BS like this - so if you purchase *anything*, you are automatically in total and absolute agreement with 100% of the originating company's business policies?

 

[VintageComics]

If CGC does not consider it a defect, why should any sellers? If you're concerned about them, ask for a back cover scan.

***********

 

Before CGC came a long a lot of people in this hobby/business did consider them a defect. One on the FC is Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?-lee. I would be very ticked off to get a slabbed 9.6 that had one on the front cover.

 

CGC has decided that all sorts of printing defects/miswraps, etc. that many old skool types considered grade deductions simply don't matter. Sure, those old skool types tended to be more loosey goosey when it came to other stuff, but.....

 

I suppose one exception MIGHT be when the bulk of a print-run has the defect. Don't Howard the Duck #1s often have the printer's crease on the FC?

 

Yeah, well, before CGC came along a lot of people in this business considered todays VF to be NM. So maybe we should just go back to the "old school way". You can't have it both way people. Either you buy into CGC's concept of grading or you don't. If you buy CGC books, then you are abiding by their grading standards. If you don't agree/like their standards, don't buy graded books. Or ask about certain things that bother you that aren't downgraded by CGC.

 

As a seller, I pay CGC for a service that includes a grade. There's an implicit agreement between buyer and seller that you are agreeing to a certain established grading criteria based on a third party opinion. This facilitates the transaction because as we all know everyone has an opinion on grading and how certain defects effect a grade, and a lot of the time those opinions are different. Just like I'm not going to list every spine tick and corner bend on a 9.4 book, I'm not going to list a printer's crease. The grade is what it is. As a buyer, do your due diligence if you are concerned. Your laziness as a buyer does not constitute a problem on my part as a seller.

 

Disclaimer... I buy far more than I sell, so JC please don't give me that "typical seller mentality" krap.

 

 

Chris, I think you bring up a good point.

 

Instead of trying to change CGC the buyer should simply ask questions before buying a slabbed book...especially if it's important for them.

 

In the end you can list all kinds of stuff but there will always be someone who has a beef with something that might get missed. You simply can't please everyone.

 

R.

 

 

[LordRahl]

Either you buy into CGC's concept of grading or you don't. If you buy CGC books, then you are abiding by their grading standards.

 

, I just love reading BS like this - so if you purchase *anything*, you are automatically in total and absolute agreement with 100% of the originating company's business policies?

 

 

I really couldn't give less of a if you agree with the company's business policies or not actually. If you have a problem with their business practices, take it up with them. As far as the seller is concerned, he or she has no control over that so why make it their problem?

[LordRahl]

If CGC does not consider it a defect, why should any sellers? If you're concerned about them, ask for a back cover scan.

***********

 

Before CGC came a long a lot of people in this hobby/business did consider them a defect. One on the FC is Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?-lee. I would be very ticked off to get a slabbed 9.6 that had one on the front cover.

 

CGC has decided that all sorts of printing defects/miswraps, etc. that many old skool types considered grade deductions simply don't matter. Sure, those old skool types tended to be more loosey goosey when it came to other stuff, but.....

 

I suppose one exception MIGHT be when the bulk of a print-run has the defect. Don't Howard the Duck #1s often have the printer's crease on the FC?

 

Yeah, well, before CGC came along a lot of people in this business considered todays VF to be NM. So maybe we should just go back to the "old school way". You can't have it both way people. Either you buy into CGC's concept of grading or you don't. If you buy CGC books, then you are abiding by their grading standards. If you don't agree/like their standards, don't buy graded books. Or ask about certain things that bother you that aren't downgraded by CGC.

 

As a seller, I pay CGC for a service that includes a grade. There's an implicit agreement between buyer and seller that you are agreeing to a certain established grading criteria based on a third party opinion. This facilitates the transaction because as we all know everyone has an opinion on grading and how certain defects effect a grade, and a lot of the time those opinions are different. Just like I'm not going to list every spine tick and corner bend on a 9.4 book, I'm not going to list a printer's crease. The grade is what it is. As a buyer, do your due diligence if you are concerned. Your laziness as a buyer does not constitute a problem on my part as a seller.

 

Disclaimer... I buy far more than I sell, so JC please don't give me that "typical seller mentality" krap.

 

 

Chris, I think you bring up a good point.

 

Instead of trying to change CGC the buyer should simply ask questions before buying a slabbed book...especially if it's important for them.

 

In the end you can list all kinds of stuff but there will always be someone who has a beef with something that might get missed. You simply can't please everyone.

 

R.

 

 

Exactly right Roy

[Flaming_Telepath]

If CGC does not consider it a defect, why should any sellers? If you're concerned about them, ask for a back cover scan.

***********

 

Before CGC came a long a lot of people in this hobby/business did consider them a defect. One on the FC is Juststopit.DoyouWANTastrike?-lee. I would be very ticked off to get a slabbed 9.6 that had one on the front cover.

 

CGC has decided that all sorts of printing defects/miswraps, etc. that many old skool types considered grade deductions simply don't matter. Sure, those old skool types tended to be more loosey goosey when it came to other stuff, but.....

 

I suppose one exception MIGHT be when the bulk of a print-run has the defect. Don't Howard the Duck #1s often have the printer's crease on the FC?

 

Isn't it strange that CGC went against accepted practice with regard to production defects, and pretty much ignored them, and then went against accepted practice with regard to NCB imprints and bends, and hammered them remorselessly?

 

Of course, one set of 'defects' can be 'fixed'...

[VintageComics]

FT, I honestly don't think CGC hammers ncb dings. I've mentioned this before but it may have gone un noticed...I've had books with ncb dings get a 9.4 and 9.6....so I think that may be a bit of an urban myth.

 

[the blob]

well, fair enough, if one cares about these things (and it is silly not to because the reality of the market is that all 9.6 - 9.8s are not created equally and the ones with better production quality will sell for more, by and large) one ought to ask questions and only buy if they feel comfortable with the answers and the scan

[trmoore54]

As some have stated, I don't think a seller is completely ethically bound to offer any more information than the CGC grade and the page quality, but I behave otherwise and think buyers should as well to protect their interests. Meaning buyers should ask all the necessary questions re. their concerns and then if the seller doesn't provide this information don't buy the book!

 

Assumption is that full front and back covers are being provided, but we all know many times the back cover scan is not provided and I've done that before (but have come to realize it's important so I provide them now)...

 

Obvious issues such as distributor crease, distributor ink, date stamps or any other markings should be provided by the seller IMHO. Of course that would place a higher priority on the seller interested in the satisfaction of the buyer than the mere money and/or profit to be had by the sale...

[joe_collector]

Of course that would place a higher priority on the seller interested in the satisfaction of the buyer than the mere money and/or profit to be had by the sale...

 

Exactly, and there is no valid reason for a seller to actively withhold this information, other than to make absolutely sure the price is maintained.

 

What REALLY SUCKS are those scam artists who promote their nicer CGC books are "no date stamps, perfect centering, no production creases or distributor ink", yet mysteriously forget to disclose these same issues on their other CGC books for sale.

 

Hilarious.

[mackenzie999]

Disclosure may or may not be ethically mandatory, seems like reasonable arguments on both sides of the aisle on this one, but I'd probably not be a repeat customer of someone who sold me a book with a significant printer's crease, unless it was blatantly obvious from the scan.

 

Nicerunonsentencethere!

[Flaming_Telepath]

FT, I honestly don't think CGC hammers ncb dings. I've mentioned this before but it may have gone un noticed...I've had books with ncb dings get a 9.4 and 9.6....so I think that may be a bit of an urban myth.

 

 

Hey Roy!

 

My experience has, in the main, been the opposite. Certainly early days, missed grades came down to the vague bends/creases that I'd pretty much ignored. Once I'd factored them in...bingo! (thumbs u

[Flaming_Telepath]

well, fair enough, if one cares about these things (and it is silly not to because the reality of the market is that all 9.6 - 9.8s are not created equally and the ones with better production quality will sell for more, by and large) one ought to ask questions and only buy if they feel comfortable with the answers and the scan

 

Which is a good ethical reason to disclose, I think. If you know that, by withholding information, you will receive more money for your sale, you're benefitting from ignorance that you have fostered, surely?

[LordRahl]

well, fair enough, if one cares about these things (and it is silly not to because the reality of the market is that all 9.6 - 9.8s are not created equally and the ones with better production quality will sell for more, by and large) one ought to ask questions and only buy if they feel comfortable with the answers and the scan

 

Which is a good ethical reason to disclose, I think. If you know that, by withholding information, you will receive more money for your sale, you're benefitting from ignorance that you have fostered, surely?

 

I think this is taking it too far Nick. Why is all the onus on the seller? Shouldn't the buyer ask questions regarding things that he may have a problem with? A seller can't possibly guess all the things any given buyer may have a problem with.

 

If I sell on ebay I generally just provide a front cover scan. I'm not intentionally trying to hide anything on the back cover. It just takes longer to scan both covers. If someone asks for a back cover scan I provide it. If someone asks if there are date stamps I tell them. If there aren't any I don't mention that anymore than I do if one is present.

 

Mainly I don't pay attention to printer's creases unless they are very obtrusive, meaning a big one right across the face of the main character on the front cover type of thing. I wouldn't know of one on the back cover unless someone asks about it because I just wouldn't pay attention to it.

 

I just don't get the mentality that absolves a buyer of all responsibility in a transaction if the buyer doesn't do his due diligence regarding a transaction he's to be involved in.

[Flaming_Telepath]

To an extent, I agree, Chris. If you're talking about a 4.5, just how much can you detail are you expected to go into? Just post big, high res scans and you're done with it. (thumbs u

 

However, on a 9.6? Just how much is there to disclose? It isn't exactly going to take all day.