When should GPA prices really apply in a comic sale?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

You can take this anyway you want but at the end of the day, here is what your left with: GPA has only recorded books that have been sold on auction site's that can be shilled by someone else. And have not recorded ANY thing from this forum board or any forum site, so the price of a graded only book is NOT the true price because how does anyone really know for sure how many books have been bought by the owner or a " friend" of the owner just to maximise the top sale of any one book. Now if they had included books being sold on the CGC board or any other forum board then I'd be more incline to take GPA to the next level as most do with OSPG.

I guess I'm just in a cynical mood this morning, but what in the world makes you think that forum board sales are immune to shilling? What stops me from listing a bunch of books in the Marketplace at pie in the sky prices and then getting one of my buddies to hit the BIN, and then "he" sells the book at an artificially high price to a legitimate buyer based on the manipulated GPA data?

 

If board sales started getting included in GPA, I think all sorts of dirty tricks would start taking place here.

 

I agree. Mr.Silvestri, it is ALL flawed logic. including my own statements. This is no different then a pressing thread. At the end of the day it is best to agree to disagree. (thumbs u

[Mac Man]

Well... if we don't use GPA as one of the tools to determine the FMV for a book, do we use OS? We all know OS isn't 100% accurate either. I might not be a rich man, but I'll take as many AF 15s in 2.0 at OS that I can find!

 

I personally think GPA - Slabbing Costs = a relatively useful tool in determining the value of a book. And like OS, it isn't the end-all-be-all of pricing a book, but it is important to have some method to gauge the value of a particular book in a particular grade. Books are going to sell for whatever the buyer ultimately wants to pay, but almost all of us can agree that there are some smarter buys than others. And this can be one more tool in our collector's utility belt to help us make smart decisions in our purchases. I think the problem lies with those individuals who believe that GPA is the end-all-be-all for pricing comics.

 

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Well... if we don't use GPA as one of the tools to determine the FMV for a book, do we use OS? We all know OS isn't 100% accurate either. I might not be a rich man, but I'll take as many AF 15s in 2.0 at OS that I can find!

 

I personally think GPA - Slabbing Costs = a relatively useful tool in determining the value of a book. And like OS, it isn't the end-all-be-all of pricing a book, but it is important to have some method to gauge the value of a particular book in a particular grade. Books are going to sell for whatever the buyer ultimately wants to pay, but almost all of us can agree that there are some smarter buys than others. And this can be one more tool in our collector's utility belt to help us make smart decisions in our purchases. I think the problem lies with those individuals who believe that GPA is the end-all-be-all for pricing comics.

 

 

(thumbs u

 

 

[Bosco685]

Great points.

 

Just wanted to talk through exactly this - these are all tools, and how you use them makes all the difference. If a seller is so set on GPA because he/she/jduran1 is convinced that must be the price, it's up to the buyer to walk away or suck it up.

 

Like the discussion on comicspriceguide, it's another tool as a reference, but your wallet and collecting sense is what leads to

 

Thanks for the continued super discussion.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think the point was missed, but maybe the way it was stated.

 

When someone is planning to sell books through a given interface, they also should be factoring all costs into their base price. So the argument would apply for those that run a business or are very savvy about their pricing to ensure there is no lost costs. So that would be the eBay environment aditional costs that come into play on pricing.

 

Make more sense?

 

Ok. we're looking at it from a selling, not a buying, perspective.

 

Fair enough.

 

But my answer remains the same: if a buyer is willing to pay $555, then a seller should not have to "discount" a book simply because there are lower costs associated with selling person to person.

 

Granted, I still think of eBay as an AUCTION site (I know, silly me), wherein the vast majority of prices achieved....and thus, recorded by GPA...are prices which BIDDERS set, not sellers.

 

If you're saying "GPA records a (for argument's sake) 90 day average of $555 for Book X in grade X.X, but those are eBay prices, and therefore I should price *my* items at X% less than eBay if I'm selling person to person because those costs aren't a factor", I would say, again, the same thing: to the buyer, they don't really care what a seller has to pay. If a seller has to pay $700 in fees, to sell for $555, they don't care (nor should they.) The buyer only cares about what he thinks OTHERS think the item is worth (the foundation of any price guide that has ever existed) and what he can afford to pay.

 

Again, with Heritage, I think it's fair to consider the BP in pricing, BUT...keep in mind, the contention that the buyer knows that a BP exists, and therefore bids LESS to accommodate that BP still exists.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Now, as for the BP on Heritage...that's another story, because there, the buyer IS paying a premium over the actual hammer price.

This reminds me of an item that should go into the FAQs that should be stickied at the top of General, as the number of math illiterate people on these boards continues to be staggering.

 

 

Not me, I hope.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

The whole point that people discount from GPA here is because the collectors society is kind enough to give us a free sales forum, where we can all sell books with no fees. So as a general Courtesy. People like to discount for that reason, and the fact that this is generally a tight knit forum. People here really do interact with eachother off the boards. And why not give people you deal with costantly a break? Same as some sellers discounting if you pay by check or MO. Again they save, why shouldnt you. Its all courtesy.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

You can take this anyway you want but at the end of the day, here is what your left with: GPA has only recorded books that have been sold on auction site's that can be shilled by someone else.

 

That only reveals the real beauty of averages.

 

Granted...there are thousands upon thousands of books (like, say, Primer #2) that do not have enough of a sales track record, especially in certain grades, to give an accurate picture of the market as it exists.

 

But...for those books where sales data does have enough of a "sample" to get a clear picture, the information is invaluable, and far, far more accurate than any price guide, in determining what a comic book in a given grade is worth at any given moment.

 

We all know that Spiderman #300 is worth "about" $850 at this point in time, using nothing more than the 90 day average at GPA, which records actual sales.

 

Highs attributed to shilling (and lows) can be tossed out, and the average gives us the most solid foundation for the value of the book.

[RockMyAmadeus]

GPA is, of course, not the end-all, be-all of comic pricing, but I'll take those numbers over OSPG, CPG.com, and any other "guide"...because those prices represent, for the most part, actual sales...not the wish fulfillment values of dealers who have a built in conflict of interest.

 

I mean, if you want to talk about shilling...decades of dealers "reporting" sales that didn't exist to Overstreet which ended up in the price guide, which resulted in higher prices, which resulted in those "sales" actually coming true after the fact.

 

The whole point that people discount from GPA here is because the collectors society is kind enough to give us a free sales forum, where we can all sell books with no fees. So as a general Courtesy. People like to discount for that reason, and the fact that this is generally a tight knit forum. People here really do interact with eachother off the boards. And why not give people you deal with costantly a break? Same as some sellers discounting if you pay by check or MO. Again they save, why shouldnt you. Its all courtesy.

 

I agree with this completely, and have seen it in practice many, many times, both here and on other boards.

[VintageComics]

Oh dear. Should I get started?

 

[Mr.Silvestri]

The whole point that people discount from GPA here is because the collectors society is kind enough to give us a free sales forum, where we can all sell books with no fees. So as a general Courtesy. People like to discount for that reason, and the fact that this is generally a tight knit forum. People here really do interact with eachother off the boards. And why not give people you deal with costantly a break? Same as some sellers discounting if you pay by check or MO. Again they save, why shouldnt you. Its all courtesy.

 

I agree 100% with you Res as goes with this forum & courtesy, but that doesn't take away the fact that GPA is only using auction sites to get their info.

 

I've looked into this" tool for comics" and don't care to use it which is my choice and I've only quoted GPA when books I have for sale are not on there. Other than that you won't find me quoting anything from them because I disagree with what they have to say about high sales for one book.

 

As for shills here on the boards they might be here but people are not auctioning off books to the highest bidder unlike eaby or heritage or any other auction site. So people here might let some thing go for far less because they set a set price for what they want there item to sell for.

 

 

[Timmay]

Oh dear. Should I get started?

 

 

No

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

People like to discount for that reason, and the fact that this is generally a tight knit forum.

 

I think most people do, Pat. (thumbs u

 

But not all.

[Mr.Silvestri]

Oh dear. Should I get started?

 

 

Get started ~ GET STARTED

[Bosco685]

I think most people do, Pat. (thumbs u

 

But not all.

 

Second that.

[gpanalysis]

I think most people do, Pat. (thumbs u

 

But not all.

 

Second that.

 

Hey Roy.... Yo momma!

[Bosco685]

 

Nicely done George

[VintageComics]

Oh dear. Should I get started?

 

 

Get started ~ GET STARTED

 

Well for one, why should GPA be limited only to the buyer.

What I mean is if you are all asking for the seller of a raw book not to include GPA data because the book is raw, does that not tie his hands if he has a book that does not fall into Overstreet grades or definitions?

 

Example 1:

 

I have a book that lists for $200 in Overstreet. Let's say an X-men #101 in 9.2.

 

Now let's say I'm a nice guy and list it for $130 because I want to discount it for the boards...but I personally grade the book a 9.6/9.8. It's virtually flawless....why should I limit myself as a seller and leave money on the table when the buyer (who buys according to GPA) swoops in and buys the book for $130 (because I'm not supposed to quote GPA) and then grades it and flips it for $750 3 weeks later?

 

Is it fair to tie the hands of the seller?

 

Example 2:

 

Overstreet is out to lunch on many books...and the grade does not have to even be taken into account. Take a rare book that is highly sought after for it's cover...Suspense #3, Captain America Comics #74, Action #7, Marvel Mystery #9...whatever...these books will fetch 2/3/4 or 10 times guide. How do you know how to price it?

 

Answer. Using ALL available references including GPA you can find a reasonable price for your book...and believe me grade often does not matter....just finding a copy is all that matters....want to know how I come to this conclusion? Often when you look up pricing for a rare book, prices are all over the place REGARDLESS of grade...price is determined simply by who was there to bid on it at the time.

 

Example 3:

 

Some dealers just can't be bothered to slab their books for whatever reason (they hate CGC, they don't have the time, they don't want to invest the $$...whatever...they have their reasons)....so they put a book up for sale and price it over guide at basically what is a GPA price. Visit conventions people...these dealers know what these books are selling for whether they are slabbed or not...and they sell those books for those prices....slabbed or not.

 

My point is that there are many variables in deciding what is fair price for a book and nobody said that GPA is the be all and end all...but it is a valuable tool for providing a lot of info including trends, availability of books in the marketplace, current pricing, frequency of sale etc etc etc.

 

Why would I as a seller or a buyer not want to use it in any transaction I am going to make?

 

R.

 

[adamstrange]

Again, with Heritage, I think it's fair to consider the BP in pricing, BUT...keep in mind, the contention that the buyer knows that a BP exists, and therefore bids LESS to accommodate that BP still exists.

 

If you look at the different bidding methods with Heritage it's pretty hard to miss the BP. Perhaps through eBay and phone bidders it doesn't show but everywhere else they show the total bid.

[Mac Man]

Oh dear. Should I get started?

 

 

Get started ~ GET STARTED

 

Well for one, why should GPA be limited only to the buyer.

What I mean is if you are all asking for the seller of a raw book not to include GPA data because the book is raw, does that not tie his hands if he has a book that does not fall into Overstreet grades or definitions?

 

Example 1:

 

I have a book that lists for $200 in Overstreet. Let's say an X-men #101 in 9.2.

 

Now let's say I'm a nice guy and list it for $130 because I want to discount it for the boards...but I personally grade the book a 9.6/9.8. It's virtually flawless....why should I limit myself as a seller and leave money on the table when the buyer (who buys according to GPA) swoops in and buys the book for $130 (because I'm not supposed to quote GPA) and then grades it and flips it for $750 3 weeks later?

 

Is it fair to tie the hands of the seller?

 

Example 2:

 

Overstreet is out to lunch on many books...and the grade does not have to even be taken into account. Take a rare book that is highly sought after for it's cover...Suspense #3, Captain America Comics #74, Action #7, Marvel Mystery #9...whatever...these books will fetch 2/3/4 or 10 times guide. How do you know how to price it?

 

Answer. Using ALL available references including GPA you can find a reasonable price for your book...and believe me grade often does not matter....just finding a copy is all that matters....want to know how I come to this conclusion? Often when you look up pricing for a rare book, prices are all over the place REGARDLESS of grade...price is determined simply by who was there to bid on it at the time.

 

Example 3:

 

Some dealers just can't be bothered to slab their books for whatever reason (they hate CGC, they don't have the time, they don't want to invest the $$...whatever...they have their reasons)....so they put a book up for sale and price it over guide at basically what is a GPA price. Visit conventions people...these dealers know what these books are selling for whether they are slabbed or not...and they sell those books for those prices....slabbed or not.

 

My point is that there are many variables in deciding what is fair price for a book and nobody said that GPA is the be all and end all...but it is a valuable tool for providing a lot of info including trends, availability of books in the marketplace, current pricing, frequency of sale etc etc etc.

 

Why would I as a seller or a buyer not want to use it in any transaction I am going to make?

 

R.

 

Oddly similar to my post... copy cat

 

J/K