Kirby dilema

[CollectingStanLee]

I have a small but growing collection of Jack kirby sigs that are also signed by Stan Lee (CGC SS). I just picked up a The Eternals #1 raw, looks like an 8.5-9.0, but it's signed by Jack Kirby on the splash page. I'm thinking of getting it signed by Stan Lee on the cover for sig series. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? Kirby tended not to like sigs on the cover and would probably roll in his grave at the idea of Stan on the cover of book that he wrote without him. On the other hand, to me they were the greatest team in comics ever, and I love putting their sigs together whenever I can. Once it's slabbed, you can't see the internal sig, so I would put Stan on the cover if I do it. Any thoughts?

[Paratrooper]

Do what you want, it's your book. Ultimately our opinions mean squat.

[CollectingStanLee]

True, but your opinions do reflect the market somewhat. I don't want to go out of my way to make the book undesirable. Might have to sell it someday.

[mschmidt]

Wouldn't an unverified inner signature kill the grade of a CGC SS book? I mean, normally you'd go with a qualified label, but in order to get the SS label, you'll have to accept the graders treating the interior signature as a real defect?

[CollectingStanLee]

It lowers the grade, but it's not a solid 9 anyway.

[Secret Son]

I have a 1945 capt america that was passed onto me from my uncle. He had it signed by Jack Kirby many years ago. He signed it on the first page, as he seems to do.

 

I then had Stan Lee sign the book right along side Jack on page one. This was long before signature series was around, sometime around the early 90's.

 

I too love the fact that I have sigs from the most important, IMHO, comic creative team ever.

 

I say go for it.

[Mac Man]

I have a small but growing collection of Jack kirby sigs that are also signed by Stan Lee (CGC SS). I just picked up a The Eternals #1 raw, looks like an 8.5-9.0, but it's signed by Jack Kirby on the splash page. I'm thinking of getting it signed by Stan Lee on the cover for sig series. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? Kirby tended not to like sigs on the cover and would probably roll in his grave at the idea of Stan on the cover of book that he wrote without him. On the other hand, to me they were the greatest team in comics ever, and I love putting their sigs together whenever I can. Once it's slabbed, you can't see the internal sig, so I would put Stan on the cover if I do it. Any thoughts?

 

I'm a raw comic collector, so my view will be a little off on this. I've got a couple of books with with dual writer-artist signatures, and I have always tried to make sure the signatures are on the same page--whether inside or outside. For some reason...I just have a problem with having signatures all over the place. However, I think it's pretty satisfying to have sigs from the major in one visual shot.

 

But, that's just my

[JazzMan]

It wouldn't get a green label, my ASM 1 attests to that. And you can make sure that CGC adds a notation on the label stating so. I didn't think that signature on the interior affected the grade much. Am I wrong?

 

[CollectingStanLee]

I'm not sure about the interior sig affecting grade. I think it would affect high grade, but I'm not sure about that.

[silverweb]

Kirby was right. Signatures should not be on the front, spoiling the art. They are better inside. CGC does not recognize this, treats them as defects, and promotes "Pay for the witnessed signature"

 

[CollectingStanLee]

Kirby didn't know about CGC slabs, and frankly your opinion is a matter of taste. I have both interior and exterior sigs of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and I prefer exterior by far. Without the sig, to me, it's just another comic book, even if it is high grade. And if you're going to have a CGC graded book, the witnessed sig is really cool because it offers a level of authentication far better than most other standards. This enhances investment value and provides a level playing field for collectors, so they are not relying on somebody's opinion about whether something is real or not.

 

I understand that not everyone is in love with CGC SS, but considering the fact that this is the signature forum, your comment seems a bit strong. It's better to support the hobby than to tear it down. Just my $.02

[silverweb]

Kirby didn't know about CGC slabs, and frankly your opinion is a matter of taste. I have both interior and exterior sigs of Stan Lee and Jack Kirby and I prefer exterior by far. Without the sig, to me, it's just another comic book, even if it is high grade. And if you're going to have a CGC graded book, the witnessed sig is really cool because it offers a level of authentication far better than most other standards. This enhances investment value and provides a level playing field for collectors, so they are not relying on somebody's opinion about whether something is real or not.

 

I understand that not everyone is in love with CGC SS, but considering the fact that this is the signature forum, your comment seems a bit strong. It's better to support the hobby than to tear it down. Just my $.02

 

Sorry, didn't mean to diss anybody here. I know it is just my subjective opinion. And I do have a few SS of my own. But I still agree with Kirby's preference for inside signatures even if he did not know about CGC slabs.

[somewhereintexas]

 

Sorry, didn't mean to diss anybody here. I know it is just my subjective opinion. And I do have a few SS of my own. But I still agree with Kirby's preference for inside signatures even if he did not know about CGC slabs.

 

Let's be realistic here. It's not as if Kirby was different than anyone else in his signing "preference" in pre-Signature Series days. Virtually all books were signed in the white space on the first page, regardless of who signed it, because the signature was seen as detracting from the cover, not to mention that it would lower the grade more than an interior signature. With Signature Series, the preference has changed because of the desire to be able to see the signature. But that preference is with the person receiving the autograph, and not the one signing it. I'm sure if Jack Kirby were still alive he would be more than happy to sign books on the cover. I've heard Chandler comment a few times that Stan Lee has questioned why anyone would want him to ruin a perfectly good comic by having it signed on the cover, but he understands that's the nature of Signature Series.

 

Personally, if I were getting a book signed but had no intention of ever having it slabbed, I probably would get it signed on the inside. But for Signature Series, if you think you may ever sell the book, it's a no-brainer to have it signed on the cover.

[CollectingStanLee]

Funny because I've also heard Stan Lee say "Are you sure the signature doesn't ruin the cover?" For me obviously the answer is no, it enhances it. In my opinion, even though he doesn't seem to know it, Stan is bigger than the comic book, so he's a little insecure about it. His sig is a big plus, and adds to the uniqueness of the cover of book. The market certainly agrees with this, his sig always seems to add value, even for characters he didn't create, like Wolverine. Even though Stan has done a lot of signing, the average number of CGC signed books per issue for him is quite low if you check the census. I'd rather own 1 out of 10 than 1 out of 600.

 

Even if you have 2 copies of the same book, same grade, both signed by Stan, there's an excellent chance that he didn't sign the same exact spot twice (unless it's AF 15). This adds to the uniqueness and character of the individual book. Sometimes I prefer a lowergrade book to higher if both are signed if the placement of the sig is better and sharper on the lowergrade book (within reason).

 

Personally I think Kirby would have warmed up the idea of signing on the cover if he knew that comic books were to be encapsulated in a slab. I think slabbed is a slightly different animal than raw and is appreciated a little differently from the pre-slab days. A Slabbed SS is different still. That was the genius of CGC, they created a new collectible, and no, they aren't paying me to say this. At any rate, our big loss is that we don't have Kirby with us to be a part of this discussion.

[comixcroz]

I have a small but growing collection of Jack kirby sigs that are also signed by Stan Lee (CGC SS). I just picked up a The Eternals #1 raw, looks like an 8.5-9.0, but it's signed by Jack Kirby on the splash page. I'm thinking of getting it signed by Stan Lee on the cover for sig series. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? Kirby tended not to like sigs on the cover and would probably roll in his grave at the idea of Stan on the cover of book that he wrote without him. On the other hand, to me they were the greatest team in comics ever, and I love putting their sigs together whenever I can. Once it's slabbed, you can't see the internal sig, so I would put Stan on the cover if I do it. Any thoughts?

 

I would get Stan to sign it, but not with the cgc ss. I'd hate to think that a Kirby sig would be counted as a defect!!! Not to mention you will never be able to see the Kirby sig anymore or prove that its there. I think a Kirby sig is a more impressive thing than a Stan sig IMHO Have Stan sign it on the same page as Kirby and forget about the ss. That's just what I would do...

[Guest Grails]

Easy one: I wouldn't have Stan sign it.

What did Stan contribute to that issue? Story, cover and art is all Jack.

[s-man]

I have a small but growing collection of Jack kirby sigs that are also signed by Stan Lee (CGC SS). I just picked up a The Eternals #1 raw, looks like an 8.5-9.0, but it's signed by Jack Kirby on the splash page. I'm thinking of getting it signed by Stan Lee on the cover for sig series. Does anyone think this is a bad idea? Kirby tended not to like sigs on the cover and would probably roll in his grave at the idea of Stan on the cover of book that he wrote without him. On the other hand, to me they were the greatest team in comics ever, and I love putting their sigs together whenever I can. Once it's slabbed, you can't see the internal sig, so I would put Stan on the cover if I do it. Any thoughts?

 

I would get Stan to sign it, but not with the cgc ss. I'd hate to think that a Kirby sig would be counted as a defect!!! Not to mention you will never be able to see the Kirby sig anymore or prove that its there. I think a Kirby sig is a more impressive thing than a Stan sig IMHO Have Stan sign it on the same page as Kirby and forget about the ss. That's just what I would do...

 

I agree...mainly due to the fact that you wont be able to see the Kirby sig any longer if its encapsulated which would deminish the enjoyment of the book.

[FatComicMafia]

Get Stan to sign it on the title page.

 

In addition to Stan, a signature inside the title page of a book in 8.5-9.0 shape won't hurt, anyways.

 

 

BTW, the last years of Jack Kirby's life, Kirby's camp would take home books, and his wife Roz,would sign them for Jack. She would sign a lot of his work when he was healthy as well, and she did a lot of inking for him.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CollectingStanLee]

Why would she do that and how do you know?