When did Wolverine really become popular?? 2 2

[delekkerste]

What I don't get is why there is such a push to revise history and diminish the success of Wolverine by the guys that weren't collecting comics at that time. Why is it so important to argue against the significance of the biggest modern age character? And by the way, I'm not a huge Wolverine fan today by any means. I don't own Hulk 180-182. And I really disliked the X-men Origins: Wolverine movie. But I still find it silly to argue against his importance and popularity from 1980 on.

 

It's absolutely fascinating that, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary, there are those who will keep trotting out completely unsubstantiated (and unshared!) opinions as if they somehow trump the entirety of other information that has been presented and has proven, beyond a shadow of a doubt, that the consensus opinion was actually consensus fact all along. I don't get either why it's so important to argue against Wolverine's early '80s popularity - my guess is that it's not really important at all and it's just that some people don't have the ability to ever admit when they're wrong, in spite of their feeble protestations to the contrary.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

That's essentially a prestige format reprint of...a reprint.

 

Correct! It was the first time I had read the story.

 

I vaguely remember seeing the 1986 reprint at somepoint. But, it didn't really stick out. I was mostly all about Spidey at that point, and not into mutnats at all. I never even bought the Wolverine reg series. Once I had bought the Mini-Series, I was basically done (except buying the reprint-reprint . More out of curiosity than fanfare. And the Weapon X stuff, and the Sam Keith stuff )

 

I was caught in the reprint trap of Hulk vs Wolvie #1. I didn't know it was a reprint until after I bought it. I thought it was like Spiderman vs. Wolverine. And to add insult to injury, this was in 1990-91 or thereabouts, and I paid $6 or so for it....$6 in 1990 dollars! Argh! For a REPRINT!!

 

Oh well, lesson learned.

[Rip]

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

 

Yup, whether intentionally or unintentionally (I think it was just a misunderstanding).

 

Wolverine was definitely a star by the early 1980's and not just an ambiguous relatively new character like Human Fly but he was not a household name until the late 1980's / early 1990's.

 

I don't think anyone was arguing that.

 

Wolverine was neither an ambiguous relatively new character, nor was he a star in the early 80's.

 

He was very popular, no doubt. But he was not a star. He was not *the* X-Man. He still had peers. He had a lot of ground to cover before he became a bonafide star (which happened by about #201-up.)

 

So, my goalposts haven't changed, though I've certainly watched others change them.

 

 

Keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

 

 

 

 

 

Here's a classic

 

 

 

Edited April 15, 2014 by Rip

[RockMyAmadeus]

I think its pretty clear that Wolverine was "white hot" in 1983, but I think this is exclusive to the comic book world. Outside of that world, people who didn't collect comics could tell you who Spidey was, but probably not Wolverine. So If this is the point that Chuck and RMA are trying to make,

 

Come on, who would be stupid enough to try and "make that point"?

 

Superman and Batman have been around since 1930's-40's and Spider-man has been in the public eye since 1962, and each have had multiple TV shows/movie serials. That's some serious longevity, and several generations of media exposure for the DC capes.

 

By 1983, Wolverine had only been around 9 short years, with zero TV shows, so obviously the far more established heroes with decades of history and media exposure behind them would be more popular and well-known with the general populace. That's just basic logic, not any "point that needs to be made".

 

Jesus guys.

 

So, since Wolverine had only been around for "9 short years" and had "zero TV shows", you're conceding that other characters were far more popular? After all, a "superstar" doesn't need "several generations of media exposure" to be a superstar...superstars come along with relative frequency. The pop world is littered with them.

 

After all....you just made the point...right up there...that "Spiderman has been in the public eye since 1962."

 

The only books featuring Spiderman that came out in 1962 were Amazing Fantasy #15 and Amazing Spiderman #1. I'm perfectly willing to concede that Spidey became a superstar within a very few short years after his first appearance. 5 at most, before Stan Lee was giving lectures on college campuses, and Spidey was appearing on Saturday morning cartoons.

 

If Spidey didn't need "9 short years" to become a household name...why did Wolvie...? Could it be because Spidey, from his very outset, was a better character, who clicked with comic audiences in a way that Wolverine did not...at least for a while?

 

I'll simply ignore the very real fact that "several generations of media exposure" doesn't mean squat in terms of popularity. Popularity is all about NOW, what are you doing NOW, what's happening NOW. Not "what happened in 1943" (mostly because the people who would remember such events are nearly all dead.) Here's the dirty little secret to popularity: exposure must be kept at a consistent level, or interest wanes. It doesn't matter that Superman had several serials in the 40's (which most people have never seen) and it doesn't even matter that he had a hit film in 1978. It matters very much that he had a hit film in 2013. "Decades of history" and "long term exposure" doesn't mean squat if there's not something current.

 

After all....Captain Marvel was arguably the single most popular superhero of the 40's.

 

Where is he now, in terms of popularity....?

 

(PS. But no, that still wasn't the point I was trying to make.)

 

PS. A character doesn't get a TV show to *make* them popular...they get one because they already *are* popular.

[chrisco37]

Heroes is a great Store (and convention). I think they only have the one location in the city now (and it may be different address than the one in the ad). But, it's one of the best comic stores I've ever been in.

[delekkerste]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

1982:

 

 

1983:

 

 

 

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

Keep saying it if it makes you feel better.

 

 

It does, but I'm not sure why you need to be confrontational.

 

How many other convention programs, ads, and other ephemera can I come up with in response...?

 

Well...I've got these:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

[delekkerste]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one. Let's not start quibbling with semantics to try and save this lost cause!

 

And, it's curious that "late '80s" has moved up to a comic with a January 1986 cover date that was released in late 1985. And, not sure what happened to make him a star with UXM #201 that wasn't already in place in 1983 or 1984.

 

The CBG and Eagle award polls would seem to corroborate peoples' memories that he was, indeed, *the* X-Man in the early '80s, with alternative candidates like Storm, Rogue and Kitty nowhere to be seen.

 

Again, just stating something as being true does not necessarily make it so.

[kav]

Wolverine was definitely popular in the late 70's. But Howard the Duck was more popular. At least in terms of sales (I think), value and 'buzz'.

[RockMyAmadeus]

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

[DrWatson]

[Darkowl]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

[kav]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

People always talk about me....

[Darkowl]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

People always talk about me....

 

Yeah, but you can take it like a champ.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

 

I agree completely. When someone repeatedly asks you to stop making the conversation about them, and they refuse? Classic Jr. high school behavior.

[Darkowl]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

 

I agree completely. When someone repeatedly asks you to stop making the conversation about them, and they refuse? Classic Jr. high school behavior.

 

How about we all be men, agree to disagree, and call it truths?

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

People always talk about me....

 

Yeah, but you can take it like a champ.

 

You're new here, so you don't really know what's going on. That *should* stop you from commenting on it, but you're not that type of person. So be it.

 

Suffice it to say, I've spent a lot of time on this board getting into pointless arguments with people over trivial nonsense. They're at fault, I'm at fault, who cares? Did it solve anything? No. Did it prove anything? No. Did it do anything but create wedges unnecessarily? No.

 

Hence, my persistent attempts to get the conversation to be about the conversation, rather than taking personal potshots at the people involved.

 

The one thing, though, that no one should tolerate is someone making statements up, and then claiming someone else said them. Everyone reserves the right to correct the record about what they actually say, and can do so without making it personal.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Nope, just another character in the early '80s.

 

 

Who said that?

 

You know know that's essentially what someone is saying when they say he was not a star and had a lot of ground to cover before he became one.

 

Despite repeated requests, you seem completely incapable of not talking about me, so I'll simply reply when you've said things that are not true.

 

This is an example.

 

This brings me back to Jr. High

 

I agree completely. When someone repeatedly asks you to stop making the conversation about them, and they refuse? Classic Jr. high school behavior.

 

How about we all be men, agree to disagree, and call it truths?

 

I "agreed to disagree" with delekkerste several days ago, and have not engaged him on this topic since. You might have missed that. I assume you mean "truce"...?