When did Wolverine really become popular?? 2 2

[Prince Namor]

Oh, and Speedball had a monthly series start before Wolverine.

[Logan510]

Oh, and Speedball had a monthly series start before Wolverine.

 

 

Don't forget Chuck Norris and his Karate Kommandos.

[the blob]

Remember, Blob, that Marvel (and all other publishers) didn't look at the market the way collectors did. Marvel made $0 on the value of back issues. Marvel made its money on new issues, and new issues only. Reprints, especially in the late 70's/early 80's, were limited to "classic" Marvel of the early to mid 60's (aside: this is something that Stan Lee and company actually got right...FF #1, Fantasy #15, Jim #83, these books were reprinted within 2-3 years after the initial books came out, assuring that people who were interested could get the backstory without having to look very hard...and this was true throughout the 60's.)

 

So, the back issue market may have been buying multiple copies of, say, DD #158 (and they were) and X-Men #94 (and they were), but Marvel didn't care, and may not even have mostly been aware. Yes, Marvel eventually got around to reprinting X-Men...but only GS #1...in 1983. It would be 1986, a full 11 years later, before they got around to reprinting the entire series in order (same with Hulk #180-181, by the way.)

 

What is the point of all of this? Publishers rarely looked back, and they certainly didn't look to see what the back issue market was doing to figure out what they should create next. The value of Hulk #181, and X-Men #94, and all the rest was *essentially* meaningless. They cared about last month's sales data. Is the book meeting our internal sales goals, yes/no? If not, why? If so, how can we sell more?

 

In that respect, letters of comment actually influenced editors and creators much, much more than the back issue market, but again, LOC were limited to the most recent issues...certainly not books that were several years old.

 

My point about pushing for female readers wasn't about collectors. Perhaps I'm just speculating, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Marvel pushing female characters in the late 70s/early 80s in particular, giving them their own titles, etc. was an attempt to get more girls buying comics. whether it worked was another story. I do think that Storm did bring some long-term female comic readers into the fold though, a lot more than Ms. Marvel or She Hulk or Dazzler for sure.

 

As for DD 158, my point is that Marvel would have been thinking of Miller's "hotness" at the time and all those extra speculation copies people would be tucking away in the hope they'd explode like DD 158 did, etc. They didn't have to look far given all the "extra" copies of DD 181 that were sold due to this. So you attach Miller to Wolverine 1 and you get a book selling 750-800K copies that would have probably sold a very healthy 400-500K copies with a "regular" artist. I don't think the folks at Marvel were so dense as to believe that a big jump in sales was solely due to increased readers. of course this has nothing to do with whether Wolverine was a big star at the time, but it would make sense to team up one of your biggest stars with one of the hottest artists around, no? rather than on hercules...

[Prince Namor]

Oh, and Speedball had a monthly series start before Wolverine.

 

 

Don't forget Chuck Norris and his Karate Kommandos.

 

I was trying to, until you ripped it from the hidden recesses of my memory!

[VintageComics]

I have a question...

 

Was there another character that was exploited before the mid 1980's the way Wolverine and Punisher were (and Deadpool, Venom and Carnage later) by putting them in nearly every comic in existence at the time?

 

If there were I'm not sure I remember them being pre mid 1980's.

 

Is it something about the direct market or the way they received feedback that changed the way they marketed characters and supersaturated the market in the 1980's and 1990's that didn't happen pre 1985?

 

 

Well Spider-man obviously.... had three new story monthly titles... wait, four if you count MTU... plus Marvel Tales reprints...

 

Then... they had a SECOND Avengers monthly book (West Coast) before they ever took a chance on a Wolvie monthly series.

 

They had a Punisher monthly book a year BEFORE Wolvie had a monthly book (and even started a SECOND Punisher book that coincided with Wolvie's monthly #1)

 

Marvel had begun the process of milking it's characters.

Wolverine just wasn't one of it's first choices.

 

Cool, that's how I remember it too.

 

I always thought it was crazy that Spidey had 5 titles at one point...but there were no other 'break out' characters up until that point. Gotcha.

 

And yes, once the late 1980's hit it was mania all over the place.

[Prince Namor]

In fact, Shooter thought it a better idea to create an entire New Universe (i.e. take a chance on Kickers Inc.) before giving Wolverine a monthly book.

[the blob]

To clear up one of the misstatements : I was born in 1972, not 1981 or 82. What has happened is that the conversation has not been followed closely at all, comments made by others have been confused and ascribed to me.

---------

 

Well RMA, I did know that we are the same age so I didn't go that route. ;-)

Edited April 14, 2014 by the blob

[Logan510]

In fact, Shooter thought it a better idea to create an entire New Universe (i.e. take a chance on Kickers Inc.) before giving Wolverine a monthly book.

 

Shooter also said he would rather publish a book of high quality ( his example was Roger Stern's Dr Strange ) and low sales as opposed to putting out a krappy book with huge sales.....then he gave us Secret Wars.

[Prince Namor]

I have a question...

 

Was there another character that was exploited before the mid 1980's the way Wolverine and Punisher were (and Deadpool, Venom and Carnage later) by putting them in nearly every comic in existence at the time?

 

If there were I'm not sure I remember them being pre mid 1980's.

 

Is it something about the direct market or the way they received feedback that changed the way they marketed characters and supersaturated the market in the 1980's and 1990's that didn't happen pre 1985?

 

 

Well Spider-man obviously.... had three new story monthly titles... wait, four if you count MTU... plus Marvel Tales reprints...

 

Then... they had a SECOND Avengers monthly book (West Coast) before they ever took a chance on a Wolvie monthly series.

 

They had a Punisher monthly book a year BEFORE Wolvie had a monthly book (and even started a SECOND Punisher book that coincided with Wolvie's monthly #1)

 

Marvel had begun the process of milking it's characters.

Wolverine just wasn't one of it's first choices.

 

Cool, that's how I remember it too.

 

I always thought it was crazy that Spidey had 5 titles at one point...but there were no other 'break out' characters up until that point. Gotcha.

 

And yes, once the late 1980's hit it was mania all over the place.

 

There was some... from back in the day...

 

Marvel Two-in-One featured the Thing outside of the FF from 1974 up through 1983.

Both Avengers and Defenders were places for characters outside their own books or in-between their own books...

The reprint books...

 

In other words they still had no problem finding a way to use a character in other places, they just weren't as sure footed on how to do it as effectively, until the Direct Market was there to make it easier to take a chance (decrease the amount of returns in the event that they were wrong).

 

Once they started up the process, they got around to including Wolverine as one of those characters and it turned out to be a good choice.

[Logan510]

I have a question...

 

Was there another character that was exploited before the mid 1980's the way Wolverine and Punisher were (and Deadpool, Venom and Carnage later) by putting them in nearly every comic in existence at the time?

 

If there were I'm not sure I remember them being pre mid 1980's.

 

Is it something about the direct market or the way they received feedback that changed the way they marketed characters and supersaturated the market in the 1980's and 1990's that didn't happen pre 1985?

 

 

Well Spider-man obviously.... had three new story monthly titles... wait, four if you count MTU... plus Marvel Tales reprints...

 

Then... they had a SECOND Avengers monthly book (West Coast) before they ever took a chance on a Wolvie monthly series.

 

They had a Punisher monthly book a year BEFORE Wolvie had a monthly book (and even started a SECOND Punisher book that coincided with Wolvie's monthly #1)

 

Marvel had begun the process of milking it's characters.

Wolverine just wasn't one of it's first choices.

 

Cool, that's how I remember it too.

 

I always thought it was crazy that Spidey had 5 titles at one point...but there were no other 'break out' characters up until that point. Gotcha.

 

And yes, once the late 1980's hit it was mania all over the place.

 

There was some... from back in the day...

 

Marvel Two-in-One featured the Thing outside of the FF from 1974 up through 1983.

Both Avengers and Defenders were places for characters outside their own books or in-between their own books...

The reprint books...

 

In other words they still had no problem finding a way to use a character in other places, they just weren't as sure footed on how to do it as effectively, until the Direct Market was there to make it easier to take a chance (decrease the amount of returns in the event that they were wrong).

 

Once they started up the process, they got around to including Wolverine as one of those characters and it turned out to be a good choice.

 

 

At least financially.

[JazzMan]

I have a question...

 

Was there another character that was exploited before the mid 1980's the way Wolverine and Punisher were (and Deadpool, Venom and Carnage later) by putting them in nearly every comic in existence at the time?

 

If there were I'm not sure I remember them being pre mid 1980's.

 

Is it something about the direct market or the way they received feedback that changed the way they marketed characters and supersaturated the market in the 1980's and 1990's that didn't happen pre 1985?

 

 

Well Spider-man obviously.... had three new story monthly titles... wait, four if you count MTU... plus Marvel Tales reprints...

 

Then... they had a SECOND Avengers monthly book (West Coast) before they ever took a chance on a Wolvie monthly series.

 

They had a Punisher monthly book a year BEFORE Wolvie had a monthly book (and even started a SECOND Punisher book that coincided with Wolvie's monthly #1)

 

Marvel had begun the process of milking it's characters.

Wolverine just wasn't one of it's first choices.

 

True dat. Spidey was everywhere...

 

Amazing Spider-Man

Spidey Super Stories

Spectacular Spider-Man

Marvel Team Up

1st Treasury Edition

Howard the Duck #1

Human Fly #1

Nova #12

Omega the Unknown #5

What If #1

Marvel Tales

Ms. Marvel #1

 

And a bunch of cameos and appearances in all the main titles like X-Men, Avengers, Fantastic Four, etc.

 

BTW, I like your Archie blog.

[delekkerste]

Oh, and Speedball had a monthly series start before Wolverine.

 

I'm not sure why you seem to think comparisons like this are at all relevant. Speedball, Chuck Norris, the New Universe and even the Punisher weren't anchoring Marvel's hottest monthly book like Wolverine was (and hottest doesn't have to mean biggest - ASM may have been ExxonMobil to UXM's Google, but it certainly didn't have much "heat" to it), so the timing of a Wolverine solo series has about as much to do with those characters as the price of tea in Madripoor.

 

If Wolverine was just a solo character that wasn't the biggest draw for Marvel's biggest title, of course he would have gotten his own series before any of them. As it was, I'm sure there were any number of reasons why Wolverine didn't get a solo series despite years of fans clamoring for one, because, unlike those other characters you keep mentioning, Wolverine was already being used regularly in UXM and his numerous other appearances in the Marvel Universe. In fact, exposure, continuity and other creative/editorial decisions probably help explain why we eventually got the Wolverine solo series we did ("Patch" in Madripoor, etc.) instead of the one that fans actually wanted to see.

 

Also, let's not quibble over growth rates of UXM circulation - the key takeaway is that both Wolverine and UXM's popularity continued to grow. The mini-series put Wolverine over the top, as reflected by the popularity of that short run, the CBG polls, etc., but his popularity was growing consistently after UXM #132/133 (which the data supports and which everyone remembers). And, let's not forget that UXM circulation is an imperfect proxy for Wolverine's individual popularity - there are entire arcs where he does not appear (for creative reasons; like I said, he's missing from UXM #184 to 192 while he's off in Japan again and Claremont focuses on other characters).

 

I'm sure that if someone gave me all the raw circulation data I'm sure I could craft an irresistible narrative that fits the fact pattern that we already know like a glove. We know that Wolverine broke out with the Hellfire Club issues and the mini-series put him over the top, with circulations showing a steady gain throughout this period. UXM sales increased even after the quality went down after Byrne/Austin left, I'm sure largely due to Wolverine's ongoing popularity. He topped two CBG polls in 1982 and 1984 and appeared on far more covers than Storm or any other X-Man between 1980 and pretty much any cut-off point you choose that pre-dates the "late 1980s". If you want to say that Secret Wars put him over the top, well, I agree that it probably helped him nab that second CBG award, though he was already on the cover of Contest of Champions #1 and #3 and extremely popular all throughout the years leading up to Secret Wars.

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the most elegant and most correct. Wolverine was a supernova superstar by 1983, and all the revisionist, derivative arguments and speculation that are being put forth to dispute that are, well, just that - derivative, revisionist and not at all proving the contrary.

[RockMyAmadeus]

To clear up one of the misstatements : I was born in 1972, not 1981 or 82. What has happened is that the conversation has not been followed closely at all, comments made by others have been confused and ascribed to me.

---------

 

Well RMA, I did know that we are the same age so I didn't go that route. ;-)

 

I know you didn't make that statement, Blob.

[mar-vell]

Just looking back at it I think there were a lot of key moments in the rising star of wolverine.

 

You could make an argument its not just one moment as each one made him more popular than before.

 

I remember clearly in the summer of 83 anything x-men was red hot and anything wolverine was white hot! So he was certainly a superstar at the comic fandom level by that point.

 

Many felt at that point he had already surpassed Spidey in terms of popularity or at least well on his way to being an iconic character the likes of spiderman,superman, batman, and hulk. The reality was his level of saturation outside the hobby was still nowhere near the level of these characters and wouldn't be for years to come.

 

I think he was a great character to begin with though neglected until the arrival of Byrne. Byrne made him into the character we knew and loved in the late 70's and early 80's. Miller's rendition certainly did nothing to diminish his fame and helped his character to continue to evolve. As popular as x-men and wolverine in particular were in 83 I was still surprised at the level of success it attained and sustained throughout the eighties.

 

So if you are interested in the genesis of his popularity history clearly points to John Byrne and his desire to see a Canadian super hero prosper. That started a fire in fandom that just grew hotter over time. Looks to me the late eighties with the massive popularity of the x-men comics and wolverines own series that he really started to become a household name on par with spider-man to those who don't pay much attention to comics.

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Oh, and Speedball had a monthly series start before Wolverine.

 

I'm not sure why you seem to think comparisons like this are at all relevant. Speedball, Chuck Norris, the New Universe and even the Punisher weren't anchoring Marvel's hottest monthly book like Wolverine was (and hottest doesn't have to mean biggest - ASM may have been ExxonMobil to UXM's Google, but it certainly didn't have much "heat" to it)

 

Because obviously Marvel DID make those comparisons and chose those characters over Wolverine.

And X-Men was not the hottest book at Marvel during that time.

 

If Wolverine was just a solo character that wasn't the biggest draw for Marvel's biggest title, of course

 

Spider-man was a solo character and their biggest draw, and they had no problem having him in multiple books...

 

he would have gotten his own series before any of them. As it was, I'm sure there were any number of reasons why Wolverine didn't get a solo series despite years of fans clamoring for one, because, unlike those other characters you keep mentioning, Wolverine was already being used regularly in UXM and his numerous other appearances in the Marvel Universe. In fact, exposure, continuity and other creative/editorial decisions probably help explain why we eventually got the Wolverine solo series we did ("Patch" in Madripoor, etc.) instead of the one that fans actually wanted to see.

 

Yes, in fact, I'm sure this very conversation in some form was going on at Marvel...

Let's put him in his own regular series!

No, the X-Men numbers are a slow climb, a solo series won't last...

But the mini-series did great!

That's a mini-series... as a solo character his book wouldn't last....

But the buzz on the street has been overwhelming!

The buzz isn't selling enough books. It's a slow climb for X-Men. Wait until we have the Direct Market where we don't have to take returns on unsold books...

But Wolverine is ready now!

We have the New Universe... it's a sure hit....

 

I'm sure that if someone gave me all the raw circulation data I'm sure I could craft an irresistible narrative that fits the fact pattern that we already know like a glove. We know that Wolverine broke out with the Hellfire Club issues

 

The numbers show that isn't true.

The artist of the books says it isn't true.

How much more do we need?

 

and the mini-series put him over the top, with circulations showing a steady gain throughout this period. UXM sales increased even after the quality went down after Byrne/Austin left, I'm sure largely due to Wolverine's ongoing popularity. He topped two CBG polls in 1982 and 1984 and appeared on far more covers than Storm or any other X-Man between 1980 and pretty much any cut-off point you choose that pre-dates the "late 1980s". If you want to say that Secret Wars put him over the top, well, I agree that it probably helped him nab that second CBG award, though he was already on the cover of Contest of Champions #1 and #3 and extremely popular all throughout the years leading up to Secret Wars.

 

That's one individuals memory of it.

 

Sometimes the simplest answer is the most elegant and most correct. Wolverine was a supernova superstar by 1983, and all the revisionist, derivative arguments and speculation that are being put forth to dispute that are, well, just that - derivative, revisionist and not at all proving the contrary.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Where I was at the time, in Southeast Missouri, I didn't see a marked up back issue of Bryne's X-men until 1987.

[RockMyAmadeus]

I have a question...

 

Was there another character that was exploited before the mid 1980's the way Wolverine and Punisher were (and Deadpool, Venom and Carnage later) by putting them in nearly every comic in existence at the time?

 

If there were I'm not sure I remember them being pre mid 1980's.

 

Is it something about the direct market or the way they received feedback that changed the way they marketed characters and supersaturated the market in the 1980's and 1990's that didn't happen pre 1985?

 

 

Well Spider-man obviously.... had three new story monthly titles... wait, four if you count MTU... plus Marvel Tales reprints...

 

Then... they had a SECOND Avengers monthly book (West Coast) before they ever took a chance on a Wolvie monthly series.

 

They had a Punisher monthly book a year BEFORE Wolvie had a monthly book (and even started a SECOND Punisher book that coincided with Wolvie's monthly #1)

 

Marvel had begun the process of milking it's characters.

Wolverine just wasn't one of it's first choices.

 

Cool, that's how I remember it too.

 

I always thought it was crazy that Spidey had 5 titles at one point...but there were no other 'break out' characters up until that point. Gotcha.

 

And yes, once the late 1980's hit it was mania all over the place.

 

There was some... from back in the day...

 

Marvel Two-in-One featured the Thing outside of the FF from 1974 up through 1983.

Both Avengers and Defenders were places for characters outside their own books or in-between their own books...

The reprint books...

 

In other words they still had no problem finding a way to use a character in other places, they just weren't as sure footed on how to do it as effectively, until the Direct Market was there to make it easier to take a chance (decrease the amount of returns in the event that they were wrong).

 

Once they started up the process, they got around to including Wolverine as one of those characters and it turned out to be a good choice.

 

And that's really the thing, isn't it...no pun intended. What is a "hot" character? If we go by just what we remember, I can tell you, without a doubt, that Rom was the hottest thing since sliced bread, and that Rom #47 is the greatest comic book ever written.

 

It's the only comic book I ever remember reading as a kid.

 

Obviously, that doesn't square with reality.

 

Marvel was there to make money. Marvel knew HOW to make money. Marvel wasn't about to sit around and let Claremont baby characters that belonged to Marvel. If Marvel thought they could milk a character....they did.

 

Dazzler #1 was the single highest selling comic book of 1981. It does not matter why (and the reason is because dealers thought they could make money), it was. There had to be enormous demand for Marvel to print that many copies of a new title. Yet, they did, and every single one was sold and out the door...no returns at all.

 

Marvel knew how to make money, but nobody guarantees anything. It's easy to say in hindsight that this mini, or that series, or this character was the hottest thing, and a "surefire success"....but nothing is guaranteed. You can mitigate circumstance in your favor as much as possible, but you can't guarantee it.

 

[delekkerste]

Back to Speedball, et. al, of course you can't possibly be suggesting that Speedball was more popular than Wolverine or that Marvel thought they could sell more copies of such a series. That would be totally ridiculous, so, the only logical conclusion is that Marvel had their own creative and/or editorial reasons for coming out with a Speedball series before Wolverine. Obviously a Speedball series would have zero expectations and little consequences for failure, while a Wolverine ongoing series would be the opposite after years of fans clamoring for one. A Wolverine series would have to be carefully planned because of the character's UXM commitments, Claremont's bandwidth, managing a new title with what was probably already a long list of one-shots, guest appearances, crossovers, etc.

 

Again, sometimes the simplest, most obvious and logical answers like the above are the most elegant and most correct versus imbuing any significance to other characters getting series before Wolverine or making not very well thought out assumptions like what Shooter would have ordered Claremont to do if the character's popularity really had been that high. Well, it was that high, and anyone could come up with any number of common sense reasons (like the above) why that wouldn't necessarily have been the case.

[chrisco37]

The Wolverine/Hulk reprint was either late 80's or very early 90's. I remember picking that one up and reading it when I had a babysitting assignment for my uncles neighbor. I would've been early HS at that time (before I got my first "real" job).

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

I remember clearly in the summer of 83 anything x-men was red hot and anything wolverine was white hot! So he was certainly a superstar at the comic fandom level by that point.

 

A lot of people are saying, and have said that. But there were a lot of magazines about comics being published at the time, and no one's come up with anything, outside of the CBG fan award winners (which doesn't include any runners up), that shows that Wolverine was "white hot" or a "superstar" at the comic fandom level.

 

And the CBG fan awards only shows Wolverine as most popular in two years...1982, and 1984...and then never appears again. What about the other years? Why was Batman the winner in 1983, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988, and 1989? 1989 is easy to account for...but 5 wins in 6 years? Where was Punisher? How about Wolvie? Spidey?

 

And what about the OTHER CBG fan award categories?

 

How about favorite story:

 

1982: Last Hand in Daredevil #181 by Frank Miller (Marvel)

1983: (Tie) Doom! by Walter Simonson in Thor #337 (Marvel); Hard Times in American Flagg! #1-3 by Howard Chaykin (First)

1984: The Judas Contract in Tales of the Teen Titans #42-44 and Tales of the Teen Titans Annual #3 by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez (DC)

1985: Beyond the Silent Night in Crisis on Infinite Earths #7 by Marv Wolfman and George Pérez (DC)

1986: Batman: The Dark Knight Returns #1-4 by Frank Miller, Klaus Janson, and Lynn Varley (DC)

 

No Wolvie in sight, but Miller appears twice.

 

How about favorite title:

 

1982: The Uncanny X-Men (Marvel)

1983: American Flagg! (First)

1984: The Uncanny X-Men (Marvel)

1985: Swamp Thing (DC) -

 

So X-Men wins twice, but not for 1983. (By the way...American Flagg was tearing up the joint in these years.)

 

Favorite GN:

 

1984 (actually, Book): Dazzler: The Movie (Marvel Graphic Novel #12) by Jim Shooter, Frank Springer, and Vince Colletta (Marvel)

1985 (actually, Book): Comic Book Price Guide #15 by Robert M. Overstreet (Overstreet)

1986: Daredevil: Love and War (Marvel Graphic Novel #24) by Frank Miller and Bill Sienkiewicz (Marvel) -

 

Miller again! No Wolvie. Dazzler gets a graphic novel, even!

 

The OPG certainly doesn't show it.

 

Here's an example that contradicts it:

 

Amazing Heroes, in their issue #63, published their "Best 10 Books (titles) of 1984." They are, in order:

 

#1. Swamp Thing (in fact, by 1985, Swamp Thing had rapidly become one of the best titles on the racks.)

#2. Jon Sable

#3. American Flagg

#4. New Teen Titans

#5. Fantastic Four

#6. X-Men

#7. Blue Devil

#8. Atari Force

#9. Doctor Strange

#10. Power Pack.

 

I don't have the actual issue in hand, but it's from a DC house ad that says "per R.A. Jones, Amazing Heroes" issue #63.

 

Here's why this is important: it was published AT THE TIME, documenting the situation, at least as Amazing Heroes saw it, AT THE TIME.

 

And X-Men...? A dismal 6th, behind reasonably argued MUCH better titles.

 

Wolverine may, in fact, have been the single hottest thing since sliced bread...to 11 and 12 year old boys.

 

But 11 and 12 year old boys did not make up the entire market, and, in 1983, didn't even make up the majority of the market anymore. If it was a discussion about which character was the most popular X-Man, or most popular Marvel character, among 11-12 year old boys in 1982, 1983, 1984...hand down, no contest! Wolvie wins!

 

But it's not.

 

Show me anything documented at the time that makes the claim that many are making, that Wolvie was a superstar in 1983, and white hot.

 

I am perfectly willing to change my mind, based on new evidence.

 

[delekkerste]

The numbers show that isn't true.

The artist of the books says it isn't true.

How much more do we need?

 

No, it's only your faulty interpretation of the numbers that shows it isn't true. Sorry, but the numbers do sync up quite nicely with the narrative. You pointed out that Byrne said the numbers didn't really hit their stride until late in his run and only got bigger after he was done. You were right about that. But, nothing, absolutely nothing, you've pointed out disproves the overwhelming consensus that Wolverine was a bonafide superstar by 1983. In fact, his popularity probably goes a long way to explaining why the series kept going from strength to strength even as the quality dipped in the #150s. And, by the time the mini-series came around and Paul Smith took over the art chores on the main title, it is unquestionable that UXM had become Marvel's hottest title. Sure, ASM had the entrenched fanbase, but as everyone but you and that other guy seems to remember, UXM was Marvel's hottest book in 1983.

 

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Where I was at the time, in Southeast Missouri, I didn't see a marked up back issue of Bryne's X-men until 1987.

 

At last, we finally have Exhibit A of when memories actually can be faulty, because we all know that can't possibly be true! I couldn't afford to buy the Byrne issues back when I started collecting in 1983 and 1984 because they were priced out of my reach. Just look at the Mile High Comics ad from UXM #173 (Sept. 1983):

 

#108: $15

#109-115: $10

#116-119, 122- $7.50

#120, #121 - $9.00

#123-129, #131-136 - $7.00

$130 - $10.00

#137-140 - $6.00

#141-143 - $2.50

 

Lest you think that was just Mile High being Mile High, ASM #21-25 are listed as $11, Cap 100 is $6, FF #61-99 are all $3.50 or less, etc. (obviously those would have been lesser grades than the more newer UXM books, but you get the picture). The bottom line is that Byrne books were as hot then as I and everyone else remembers. In fact, the reality is that one would have done much better buying other books at that time since the Byrne books were so hot that they have appreciated quite a bit less from those levels than the other books they were higher than at the time.

 

By contrast, you'd have to go back to ASM #122 to find any ASM issue listed in the ad that cost more than $4 (ASM #129 isn't even broken out and is listed at $1.75). Sorry, but it is like I remember - UXM was HOT HOT HOT and ASM was NOT NOT NOT in 1983, and much of that was due to Wolverine.