When did Wolverine really become popular?? 2 2

[Logan510]

RMA and Chuck, do you really believe he wasn't that big of a deal in 1983? Why do you think we're telling you otherwise?

 

No one said he wasn't a big deal in 1983.

He was popular in 1983. Amongst X-Men collectors he was very popular.

But white hot super nova Mainstream big deal?

No.

Not yet.

 

Is anyone arguing that? In comics he was pretty popular, but I would guess he didn't become even known by the mainstream until the X-Men cartoon and didn't blow up until the first X-Men movie.

 

Hulk was probably more popular with the mainstream up until that point.

[RockMyAmadeus]

 

RMA and Chuck, do you really believe he wasn't that big of a deal in 1983? Why do you think we're telling you otherwise?

 

As Chuck already said, no. As I've already said, many times, no. It is the "how big a deal" that is the question. Was he a superstar? Not even close. At this point, the superstars were Bats, Wonder Woman, Hulk, Spidey, and Supes. These were the superstars, the household name (yes, WW had, in very recent memory, her own TV series, as did Hulk. That's "household name" status.)

 

Wolverine was definitely on the rise...but superstar status? No, that would come later.

 

PS. I really wish everyone would just let everyone speak for themselves. Everytime I read the word "we" on a message board, I cringe. No one speaks for anyone else, even those that agree with them. Fair enough...?

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

RMA and Chuck, do you really believe he wasn't that big of a deal in 1983? Why do you think we're telling you otherwise?

 

No one said he wasn't a big deal in 1983.

He was popular in 1983. Amongst X-Men collectors he was very popular.

But white hot super nova Mainstream big deal?

No.

Not yet.

 

Is anyone arguing that?

 

Looks like it to me.

[Chip Cataldo]

When I think that, for one day in my life, I held half the OA for X-Men #133 in my hands...I really can't believe it. It was like an out-of-body experience.

 

*sigh* "Memories..."

 

Peace,

 

Chip

[Prince Namor]

No one said he wasn't a big deal in 1983.

He was popular in 1983. Amongst X-Men collectors he was very popular.

But white hot super nova Mainstream big deal?

No.

Not yet.

 

Yeah, but by that criteria, he didn't hit the big time until much after "the late '80s" as well. Sure, he got his own title and MCP and whatnot then, but he didn't achieve white hot supernova mainstream success until the first X-Men movie, by which time he had been totally burned out in the comics. I mean sure, he got mainstream exposure through the animated series and videogames and whatnot, but certainly not anything close to approaching white hot supernova mainstream success.

 

The picture is crystal clear at this point.

 

That cartoon in the early 90's made him a household name to kids all over the country.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Where I was at the time, in Southeast Missouri, I didn't see a marked up back issue of Bryne's X-men until 1987.

 

Come on, that's just crazy, and Byrne stuff was hot by 1983-84, when his Alpha Flight flew off the shelves. The guy was the hottest artist on the planet and all of his issues were broken out in OS.

 

I remember filling some X-Men holes in 1984 and spending $8-$12 per NM issue mail-order on the 110's and 120's commons, $20+ or semi-keys. I still have the catalogs and order forms.

 

In the college town I was in, the very first comic book store they ever had was still in the first year of its existence. He got in a lot of back issues he bought in that first year (I know because I worked for him), but it wasn't until 1987 he got that first run of Bryne X-Men and said, "These are hot books".

I wasn't an X-Men reader, but had enjoyed Bryne's run on the FF, so hearing it stuck out in my mind.

He priced them at guide and featured them promently on display.

They sat.

Eventually he marked them down and let me trade for them. .

 

Yes, as has been noted in many market reports of the late 80's, X-Men had overreached (with ONE TITLE), Claremont got confused and slightly dazed, and X-Men took a serious dive in popularity...it would take Jim Lee in 1990 to restore the title to its former glory.

[Darkowl]

This has been mentioned before, but perhaps its the terminology that we're all getting tripped up on. On the other hand, maybe not.

 

I think its pretty clear that Wolverine was "white hot" in 1983, but I think this is exclusive to the comic book world. Outside of that world, people who didn't collect comics could tell you who Spidey was, but probably not Wolverine. So If this is the point that Chuck and RMA are trying to make, I would have to agree. In fact, Wolverine still hasnt reached the same notoriety level as Spidey or Supes (but its close). I bet if I were to make a poll for baby boomers, there would be more people who have no clue who Wolverine is, but I bet most of them could tell you who Spidey is, or even better, could tell you who Superman is.

 

However, when trying to prove how hot a comic book character is, Im not sure it necessarily matters how well known that particular character is outside the comic book world. Take rock bands for example. The Pixies were one of the biggest underground bands ever (some would argue they are mainstream). They influenced many bands that reached huge household/main stream status, including Nirvana. They were "white hot" in the eyes of Kurt Cobain, and many other popular musicians. In the musician world, they were "white hot", no questions asked (and it doesn't even matter how many records they sold). Outside of the musicians world, most people wouldn't be able to tell you who the Pixies were. I think this type of status was very similar to Wolverine in 1983. In the comic book world, he was a grade A badazz. Outside of that world, his notoriety was largely diminished.

 

If Chuck and RMA are arguing that Wolverine wasn't the shiznit in 1983 in the comic book world as everyone else seems to recall, I think the evidence combined with the memories of my fellow boardies, significantly point in the other direction. In fact, Im not even sure how this could accurately be debated for so long.

 

 

 

 

[Prince Namor]

Because generally when people talk about a band or a song or a comic character or a TV show that's 'white hot' they usually are meaning it in a breakthrough mainstream way.

The Pixies probably reached some fan polls #1's and a portion of there audience considered them 'white hot', but 90% of the country didn't have a clue who they were. (I love the Pixies. I knew who they were).

When I opened my own shop in Jackson, MO in early 1994, I tried to convince anyone that came in that Hellboy was 'hot' and they really should buy it and check it out. Was I wrong? I loved it personally, I talked to other people outside the area that loved it, it was getting notice, it would go on to BE a big deal... Was it then?

 

 

[Prince Namor]

How many titles to Deadpool and Wolverine carry successfully (or have they carried successfully in the past)?

 

To my knowledge Wolvie could only really carry one title at a time (and it restarted several times) and yet he is without question a world recognized character at this point in time.

 

Same with Deadpool. I talked to a store owner in my travels and he said Deadpool carries his whole store. How many titles is Deadpool in? Honest question.

 

I think that the rules that applied to Spidey in the 1970's and early 1980's didn't apply to anyone else.

 

Well for Wolverine, it would be two, his series + the X-Men, but his popularity grew differently than characters in the 70's - He was a huge success in the early 90's X-Men cartoon and the video games and then the movies... There are kids who love that character today who've maybe never even read a comic.

 

Deadpool is still a niche in comics. A HUGE niche. But one that Marvel exploits in a number of other ways (across the entire line variants, stop and start series). His popularity came about at a time when the way comics are published have changed.

Plus I would imagine It's difficult to incorporate that character into regular continuity, because of his... Because of the way he's written. Remender did a good job with it in 2010's X-Force series, but I imagine it's a challenge.

 

My point still stands though, that both characters are currently wildly popular (as in white hot) and they still can barely carry a single series each (two if you include Wolverine's team appearance in X-men although I believe he also had some short stories in the Marvel ?_?_?_?_? series (can't remember the name) in the late 1980's / early 1990's).

 

So that does not seem to be the measure of a character's popularity any longer.

 

 

I'm agreeing.

[delekkerste]

That cartoon in the early 90's made him a household name to kids all over the country.

 

Sure, but what someone has been arguing is that Wolverine was a superstar by the late '80s but not the early '80s, both eras which pre-dated the animated series. If he was a superstar in the late '80s to the comics crowd, well, I think we've proved by this point beyond a shadow of a doubt that he had achieved that status by the early '80s as well.

 

If you want to say that mainstream success is the criteria, then you could point to the early/mid '90s with the animated series and videogames, but, really, the first X-Men film is when he really became a household name.

[Darkowl]

Because generally when people talk about a band or a song or a comic character or a TV show that's 'white hot' they usually are meaning it in a breakthrough mainstream way.

The Pixies probably reached some fan polls #1's and a portion of there audience considered them 'white hot', but 90% of the country didn't have a clue who they were. (I love the Pixies. I knew who they were).

When I opened my own shop in Jackson, MO in early 1994, I tried to convince anyone that came in that Hellboy was 'hot' and they really should buy it and check it out. Was I wrong? I loved it personally, I talked to other people outside the area that loved it, it was getting notice, it would go on to BE a big deal... Was it then?

 

 

I suppose the definition of White Hot could be based on relative context, especially since it's slang. I cant speak for everyone here, but I'm under the impression that the people who think Wolverine was white hot in 1983 were using that term for Wolvie's status only in the comic book world. I could be wrong, though.

 

It definitely seemed like 90% of the country didn't know who the Pixies were, which boggles my mind, because they had a tremendous influence on many, many musicians. I don't know what portion of their fan base considered them white hot either, but given the amount of impact they had, I could only imagine that It would be the popular consensus. It seems like 90% of the country still doesn't know who the Pixies are (aside from your average concert goer, and Fight Club fan), and It seems like the only time I can ever talk about the Pixies to anyone is If I'm in a record store, or a concert, or in some rare cases, a comic book forum.

 

You'll have to elaborate on your Hellboy point a bit more for me. I'm not sure If I'm following the significance of it. It's late, and I need to go to bed...maybe that's why.

 

 

 

[Comicopolis]

Wolverine just ripped off Timber Wolf.

 

And the Pixies just ripped off Husker Du.

 

[InvstmntComcSuply]

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

[chrisco37]

The Wolverine/Hulk reprint was either late 80's or very early 90's. I remember picking that one up and reading it when I had a babysitting assignment for my uncles neighbor. I would've been early HS at that time (before I got my first "real" job).

 

 

It actually had an October 1986 cover date.

 

 

Hmm...that's not the one I had. I searched and found this one....this is one I was talking about:

 

[chrisco37]

The Wolverine/Hulk reprint was either late 80's or very early 90's. I remember picking that one up and reading it when I had a babysitting assignment for my uncles neighbor. I would've been early HS at that time (before I got my first "real" job).

 

 

1986.

 

I searched and found that I was referring to a different version. I posted a pic of the one I had. It was a 1989 date.

[chrisco37]

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

 

This.

 

When the discussion was going on, I didn't think it was in relation to what the "real world" thought. I thought we were discussing within the fanboy realm.

 

Oh well, not the first or last time I'll miss a point.

[VintageComics]

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

 

Yup, whether intentionally or unintentionally (I think it was just a misunderstanding).

 

Wolverine was definitely a star by the early 1980's and not just an ambiguous relatively new character like Human Fly but he was not a household name until the late 1980's / early 1990's.

 

I don't think anyone was arguing that.

[delekkerste]

Since Im having fun looking back at some awards and old books

 

CBG FAVORITE COVER

1982: Wolverine #1

 

(Under Maggie Thompson's additions)

http://www.cbgxtra.com/knowledge-base/for-your-reference/cbg-fan-award-winners-1982-present

 

And another from Eagle 1986: (Award not given 84-85)

Character Most Worthy of Own Title

Wolverine

 

I think that's pretty much game, set and match. And for those who want to nit-pick about dates, the CBG awards for 1982 were announced in June 1983 with voting presumably carrying over into that year.

 

As you noted earlier, the Eagle Awards for the late '70s and early '80s are positively peppered with X-Men. Wolverine scored in both the Favourite Character and Favourite Supporting Character categories in 1978, moving up to runner-up in the Character category in 1979 while winning the Supporting Character category; the Wolverine-focused X-Men #109 won third place for Favourite Single Story as well (the X-Men in general were cleaning house around this time).

 

Wolverine tops both the Favourite Character and Favourite Supporting Character categories in 1980. The awards take a break in 1981 and are stripped down for 1982. In 1983, the Wolverine mini series wins the now combined Favourite Single or Continued Story award and defends his Favourite Character title (which hadn't been contested since 1980). At no point do Rogue, Kitty or Storm make any of the lists.

 

By any stretch of the imagination, Wolverine is a supernova superstar by 1983 in the comics world. If you're only counting mainstream exposure, well, by that metric he's not well known to kids until the early-to-mid '90s and not well-known to adults until the first X-Men film in 2000.

[delekkerste]

It seems the goalposts of the "Wolverine wasn't the most popular/significant X-man until the late 80's" have changed. Now he has to be recognized by the mainstream non-comics audience or be "white hot"?

 

This.

 

When the discussion was going on, I didn't think it was in relation to what the "real world" thought. I thought we were discussing within the fanboy realm.

 

Oh well, not the first or last time I'll miss a point.

 

You didn't miss a point at all. Wolverine was not a household name in the late '80s, which is where the goalposts were originally set by the dissenters. He got some exposure among a certain younger demographic in the early-to-mid '90s with the videogames and animated series, but he was still far from a mainstream household name even then.

 

The goalposts have only moved because the evidence is now overwhelming that Wolverine had achieved enormous popularity and success in the comics world by 1983 (again, as nearly everyone remembers), and certainly by the mid-'80s. With that battle now comprehensively lost to the dissenters, the only way to discredit the consensus view is to argue that he hadn't achieved mainstream, iconic status at that time. Which is true; I certainly would not have argued for the early '80s if that were the original criteria. But, as it stands, that would also disqualify the character from having achieved that standard by "the late '80s" as was initially postulated by the dissenters.

[Broke as a Joke]

Mainstream appeal shouldn't matter anyways...Iron Man really wasn't known to the masses until the first movie.

 

Hmm that's a better topic: Who is currently more popular Iron Man or Wolverine??