Comiclink...Truth and Fiction

[sterlingcomics]

Nice analysis. They've definitely won me over on both the buying and selling side. Where a few years ago eBay was the best place to go...this is one site that has commanded a position often envied by other dealers/sellers.

 

Now, if they can just get a facelift on their aging site....

[sterlingcomics]

...

 

I sold a number of duplicated on eBay over the past year, prior to making this final batch sale. I consistently got under GPA pricing on most of the books, despite incrediibly good feedback ratings. Additioanlly once you factor in the paypal fees, listing and final value fees, EBay gets pretty close to 6-7%. ...

 

 

Rilly? Ebay's cut feels a lot bigger than that! Seems closer to 20% when I sell stuff on ebay, though I haven't done the math.

 

If you count the money paid for items that don't sell and re-list fees on the inventory/store site...I'm sure it definitely is.

[thirdgreenham]

Andy, I just said that to counter all the talk about high dollar sales being questionable on Comiclink. I've gotten "stupid" money for some books and got paid for them.

 

Those comments were not put into this thread but have been prevalent in other threads.

 

 

R.

 

 

Understood. (thumbs u

[EastEnd]

Great post and interesting insight. My only complaint with Clink is their lack of responsiveness to emails... but when I call they are very responsive. I agree with the other posters that the fee structure and customer service (other than the email issue noted) is second to none.

 

I would though like to see them report their results to GPA. I think GPA is substantially weakened without Clink. Not sure if it's just my dumb luck, but most books I watch on Clink wind up closing for more than GPA which makes GPA pretty useless for me when I'm bidding in a Comiclink auction.

[Monkeyman]

I read somewhere on these boards that seller are allowed to bid on their own books in CLink auctions. Is this true?

 

Mike

[conditionfreak]

Yea. I read the same thing.

 

I joined Ebay when it first started and they used to allow sellers to bid on their own auctions also. First it was unlimited bids on your own auctions, then it went to one bid on your own auctions.

 

Now, with free email accounts available from sites worldwide, many if not most, Ebay sellers have their own shill accounts. Use your wifes info to get a shill account, or a mothers info, or whatever.

 

If you do background investigation on suspicious Ebay auction bids, you can see how often it is done. Same accounts bidding on same seller auctions, just enough to raise the prices to certain levels. Usually just below the BIN price. There are other evidence tidbits that can be noticed as well.

 

I have never sold on ComicLink but have bought, and was very satisfied with my transactions with them. Of course there are shill bidders there. It would be impossible for their not to be. But that does not mean that ComicLink is "in" on it. Now, if they do actually allow sellers to bid on their own auctions, then I have a problem with that.

[VintageComics]

Wouldn't that same rule apply on any auction anywhere?

 

It's not a comiclink auction thing...it's simply an auction thing.

 

you can have a shill sitting in the chairs at a live auction or your granny on the phone...as long as you bid what you think is a fair price the other guy will get left holding the bag when the music stops.

[Dale Roberts]

I can tell you that sellers are NOT allowed to bid on their own books. But I have talked to the Comiclink guys about it and they say it is an absolute no-no.

 

No one can ever eliminate all shill bidding, it is simply not possible with the ease of getting new e-mail addresses and such. Using a wife's account is probably not going to pass though, nor would using a neighbor's. Josh is going to want to get paid either way. And I am pretty sure that he is smart enough to figure out that is someone who lives on your block, or in your house or even in your same zipcode and is only bidding on your books, it probably is something shady. He is no dummy, and you are taking money directly out of his pocket by doing this.

 

Lets put it this way........... What sense does it make for a seller to bid on his own item, and lose the 10 % commission you give to Josh, and have to pay for the book again. It is a certain way to lose money. Say someone submits a $1000.00 book to Josh that he paid 700.00 for. As the auction nears the end, the book is only at 710.00, so the seller wants to "bump" it slightly. So he shills a bid of 800.00. No one else bids, so now you not only paid 700.00 for the book the first time and paid to ship it to Josh (700 + 15 = $715.00), now you have paid $800.00 for it a second time plus shipping (814.00 + original 715.00 = 1529.00). Now you will get some of that money back from Josh (800 - 80.00 = 720.00). 1529 - 720.00 = 809.00. And you have to wait 30 days to get your money.

 

When all is said and done, you now have 809.00 in a book that no one else thinks is worth even 800.00. It just doesn't make sense.

[Rich_Henn]

Is there a way that we can go into past history sales on CLink to see what certain books went for previously?

 

Like Ebay's past closed sales?

It would be interesting to compare and contrast.

[esquirecomics]

How would you, or anyone, respond to the claims that CLink reports inflated realized values?

 

Personally I wouldn't know because I don't play the market for most books that would get reported.

 

Interesting question. I think I heard before that ComicLink cannot pick and choose which comics that they'd like to report to GPA, it's either all or none. With that being said, when Josh says to you he will report your sales to GPA, I believe he was just telling you what you wanted to hear, in order to get your books in his auction.

 

Andy

 

It would be interesting to hear from George concerning this...

 

Jim

 

This will be easy enough to verify.

[Dale Roberts]

I can tell you that sellers are NOT allowed to bid on their own books. But I have talked to the Comiclink guys about it and they say it is an absolute no-no.

 

No one can ever eliminate all shill bidding, it is simply not possible with the ease of getting new e-mail addresses and such. Using a wife's account is probably not going to pass though, nor would using a neighbor's. Josh is going to want to get paid either way. And I am pretty sure that he is smart enough to figure out that is someone who lives on your block, or in your house or even in your same zipcode and is only bidding on your books, it probably is something shady. He is no dummy, and you are taking money directly out of his pocket by doing this.

 

Lets put it this way........... What sense does it make for a seller to bid on his own item, and lose the 10 % commission you give to Josh, and have to pay for the book again. It is a certain way to lose money. Say someone submits a $1000.00 book to Josh that he paid 700.00 for. As the auction nears the end, the book is only at 710.00, so the seller wants to "bump" it slightly. So he shills a bid of 800.00. No one else bids, so now you not only paid 700.00 for the book the first time and paid to ship it to Josh (700 + 15 = $715.00), now you have paid $800.00 for it a second time plus shipping (814.00 + original 715.00 = 1529.00). Now you will get some of that money back from Josh (800 - 80.00 = 720.00). 1529 - 720.00 = 809.00. And you have to wait 30 days to get your money.

 

When all is said and done, you now have 809.00 in a book that no one else thinks is worth even 800.00. It just doesn't make sense.

 

This is a basic way of looking at it, and does not reflect that the shill bidder probably isn't a dummy either.

 

1) I live in Philly. Friend lives in NYC. Call him up, alert him to the books that you have for sale.

 

2) Watch books in the EARLY stages of bidding, so you don't get stuck with it at the end, by bidding up the prices.

 

3) Watch to see if your shill bid is immediately outbid or outbid within a few hours. If done during the early stages you probably have a good chance that even if you are the "current" winning bidder, you will be outbid in the end.

 

4) Have a kill level. When it hits $1500, no longer shill. Everything else is gravy.

 

5) Shill selectively, not on all your books, just your big ticket items.

 

6) Shill creates a frenzy to legit collectors that they may have to get in early and often to win their book that they want.

 

The scenario you are presenting Dale really isn't the way anyone with half a brain would shill bid. Even if you get stuck 1 out of 25 or 30 times, and that's the real ratio if you do it smartly to me, the reward far outweighs the risk. And there's not a darn thing Josh or anyone else can do to police it really.

 

 

Brian, I believe that I mentioned that there is nothing Josh can do about it, and what he can do about it, he is doing. One thing you fail to respond to, what happens that 1 in 25 times to the seller who gets caught doing it. Do you think Josh is just overlooking that and allowing him to do it again? I don't.

 

 

 

Another important note......I personally would think if you are bidding 1500.00 on a 1000.00 book, you are going to get stuck ALOT more than 1 in 25 times.

 

I don't feel that this is anywhere near the problem that you are indicating in the above post.

 

Kind of reminds me of the Arod situation where 1 case is overshadowing the 1500 players who will play in baseball this year. Sure there are a few people who may be staying ahead of the curve and NOT getting caught, but most are not doing anything wrong, but to hear it from the overly cynical media, you would think it was a majority of players.

 

 

[conditionfreak]

Arod was one of the few outed. But there are hundreds known. That is a fact.

 

There are shill bidders on all auction sites. That is a fact.

 

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

 

I don't know how it is now, but Ebay used to require an underbidder to honor their bids, if the highest bidder failed to purchae the book. Is this still in effect?

 

Dale: I am not casting aspersions towards ComicLink, any more than I am casting insinuations towards all other auctions (as you indicated). I'm just saying that in auctions (especially internet auctions), these things happen. Josh may be a smart guy, but there are other smart guys out there. Sometimes the criminals outsmart the cops. A lot of times actually.

 

Fore warned is fore armed.

[Dale Roberts]

Arod was one of the few outed. But there are hundreds known. That is a fact.

 

There are shill bidders on all auction sites. That is a fact.

 

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

 

I don't know how it is now, but Ebay used to require an underbidder to honor their bids, if the highest bidder failed to purchae the book. Is this still in effect?

 

Dale: I am not casting aspersions towards ComicLink, any more than I am casting insinuations towards all other auctions (as you indicated). I'm just saying that in auctions (especially internet auctions), these things happen. Josh may be a smart guy, but there are other smart guys out there. Sometimes the criminals outsmart the cops. A lot of times actually.

 

Fore warned is fore armed.

 

 

I completely agree with your last paragraph. All I am saying is I think Josh is doing everything that can be done to stop shill bidding. You will never stop all of it, not with Heritage, Comiclink, Pedigree, Ebay or otherwise. You just have to accept that and move on.

[comicdonna]

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

This is very disturbing.

[Dale Roberts]

Arod was one of the few outed. But there are hundreds known. That is a fact.

 

 

Actually, there are about 150 known out of the thousands and thousands of players who have been in the big leagues since lets say about 1995. It is a tiny percentage overall. Not saying it was not a problem, but it is time to let it go. They are testing now for what can be detected. I am sure they will constantly be trying to keep up. You will never stop everyone from cheating. Just do the best you can, penalize the ones who cheat to an extent that it makes it a major risk to try it, and go on with the game.

 

By the way, I would bet dollars to donuts there are players in the HOF right now who used steroids. Certainly many players who used amphetamines which is also cheating and illegal. It is time to drop all of it. Catch as many as you can, penalize them hard, and play the game.

 

Arod has been exposed. Why does any of this stuff matter now? He will never be accepted as legit. He will never be acknowledged as the player he should have been. He will never be in the Hall of Fame. But the Media is not going to stop until he is completely destroyed. That is simply not right. He is a liar and a cheat. He may have even broken some minor laws, but why just keep on and on like he is a serial killer.

 

Sorry for the derail, just needed to rant. You can't even watch ESPN right now for all of this garbage.

[kimik]

I have had good experiences selling on Clink as well, except for the guy who stiffed me on my Action Comics #14 CGC 4.0. The bidder never paid.

 

I am still waiting for payment on another book that recently sold, but when I called them they said the buyer was reliable so hopefully it will work out.

 

The shill bidding aspect of the auctions is a concern for Clink and every other auction site (especially eBay). I was a little pissed that the two books I won on the last Clink auction both were bid up to my max bid during the last minute but no higher, but that is the way it goes, I guess.

[thirdgreenham]

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

This is very disturbing.

 

Yeah, this sounded like something he has done, and does, not some hypothetical scenario.

 

 

[500Club]

I can tell you that sellers are NOT allowed to bid on their own books. But I have talked to the Comiclink guys about it and they say it is an absolute no-no.

 

No one can ever eliminate all shill bidding, it is simply not possible with the ease of getting new e-mail addresses and such. Using a wife's account is probably not going to pass though, nor would using a neighbor's. Josh is going to want to get paid either way. And I am pretty sure that he is smart enough to figure out that is someone who lives on your block, or in your house or even in your same zipcode and is only bidding on your books, it probably is something shady. He is no dummy, and you are taking money directly out of his pocket by doing this.

 

Lets put it this way........... What sense does it make for a seller to bid on his own item, and lose the 10 % commission you give to Josh, and have to pay for the book again. It is a certain way to lose money. Say someone submits a $1000.00 book to Josh that he paid 700.00 for. As the auction nears the end, the book is only at 710.00, so the seller wants to "bump" it slightly. So he shills a bid of 800.00. No one else bids, so now you not only paid 700.00 for the book the first time and paid to ship it to Josh (700 + 15 = $715.00), now you have paid $800.00 for it a second time plus shipping (814.00 + original 715.00 = 1529.00). Now you will get some of that money back from Josh (800 - 80.00 = 720.00). 1529 - 720.00 = 809.00. And you have to wait 30 days to get your money.

 

When all is said and done, you now have 809.00 in a book that no one else thinks is worth even 800.00. It just doesn't make sense.

 

I completely agree with this line of thinking, Dale. It's an argument whose merit increases as the price paid for a book rises above GPA. There higher the price, the less likely the seller would be taking a chance shilling the item and risking putting 10-12% more equity into the book.

[Silver Surfer]

Comiclink has been awesome the last 3 years or so, super customer service and the selection just keeps getting better. Just curious, did you use any of the proceeds to buy other books or are you getting out of collection for the time being?

[conditionfreak]

If I am selling a TOS 46 in VG and I want 140 bucks for it. I may shill bid myself, up to $134.99 and hope for a higher bidder. If I end up winning the book through my shill bid, I just eat the cost to Ebay. Then I use my shill bidder name to leave good feedback for the book I purchased (from myself) and go on about my business.

 

Sure, sometimes you get the shaft, but sometimes you get the goldmine. At least you have the book and can try again some other time. Or you can contact the underbidder and tell them that the winning bidder "passed" on buying the book, and offer it to them at their top bid.

This is very disturbing.

 

Yeah, this sounded like something he has done, and does, not some hypothetical scenario.

 

 

Ha Ha. Way to jump to conclusions and cast aspersions without even knowing me. Let's not insinuate anything against ComicLink, Heritage or anyone else you don't know, but let's assume that conditionfreak is a cheat and a shill bidder on his auctions, because he can reason and have an intelligent thought or two.

 

You my friend, are a mor0n for suggesting that without so much as a second thought about doing so. Do you think that others here haven't thought about that scenario, and other ways to cheat. Not that they were thinking about doing them, but wondering if "it" was done to them.

 

Here is a link to my Ebay account. Do an investigation and then come back with your results. OR, go wash your mouth out with soap.

 

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=conditionfreak&ftab=AllFeedback

 

Moving on with another thought or two from an obvious cheat and shill bidder:

 

Except for the fact that one is against the rules and one is not. What is the difference between a shill bidder and a "reserve" auction?

 

Additionally, what is the purpose of someone putting up a reserve auction and putting in the auction description how much their reserve is? I don't get it.