is comic grading subjective?

[PhiGam-migration]

got in an argument about this with a buddy, and have seen this question get asked on both good and bad comic forums...

 

so, is comic grading subjective?

 

I don't think it is...every book has a finite and quantifiable number of defects (be it 0,2,4,10, 20 etc...)...

 

what IS subjective is FINDING and counting defects...ie a strong/experienced grader can easily find and count all of the defects in a book much faster and in a more efficient manner than an inexperienced grader

 

anyone feel differently?

[RockMyAmadeus]

(thumbs u

[PokerKid]

Who comes up with the criteria that is used?

 

For example, with my extensive experience on eBay, I know for a fact that 7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain on the back cover from a cup of coffee is a 9.0.

[comicgrinder]

its not only the # of defects but also the severity of the defects. Stains, scratches, indentions are hammered in grading by CGC, but not as much by say, ebay sellers...and other who have an opinion of what the grade should be. Grading is subjective I believe...

 

eye of the beholder.....if it wasnt subjective....a lot of people would be in jail for fraud I would asume

[Cimm]

Comic grading is subjective in the sense of how much do you count off for certain types of defects, i.e. off-center, discoloration, PQ, handling creases vs. production creases, overall appearance vs. structural integrity... In my experience, everyone that knows how to grade fairly well GENERALLY agrees, yet at the same time, each of them have certain defects that they abhor or can ignore. The subjectivity is mostly found in the finer points of grading, and the difference of opinion rarely amounts to more than a half grade off in either direction.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Subjectivity comes in the interpretation of how the quantity and specificity of flaws impacts the overall level of preservation. We can all pretty much agree a book that is dropped in the bathtub is not "mint" unless you're a liar or "challenged." We can start where we all agree, and go from there. Hopefully, we can maintain a consensus, and when we start to lose that, we know we've reached the area of "subjectivity."

 

In other words, "all other things being equal, does this 1/4" color breaking spine stress mark move the book into NM, or can it still be NM+?"

[RockMyAmadeus]

Comic grading is subjective in the sense of how much do you count off for certain types of defects, i.e. off-center, discoloration, PQ, handling creases vs. production creases, overall appearance vs. structural integrity... In my experience, everyone that knows how to grade fairly well GENERALLY agrees, yet at the same time, each of them have certain defects that they abhor or can ignore. The subjectivity is mostly found in the finer points of grading, and the difference of opinion rarely amounts to more than a half grade off in either direction.

 

(thumbs u

[RockMyAmadeus]

The second post in this thread aptly demonstrates subjectivity in interpretation. My thumbs up to Phi was solely because I love this subject (and will talk about it for days), but others could, and possibly did, interpret that simple smiley as agreeing with Phi's assertion, which wasn't the case.

 

In other words, it was much, much too vague to reliably interpret properly. And yet, that's exactly what happens when we try to grade, with words like "small", "numerous", "large", "several", etc.

 

What do those words mean to the individual writing them, and what do they mean to the individuals reading them? Probably entirely different things.

 

(yeah, I know, way too philosophical for 1 AM PDT. )

[Aces]

is comic grading subjective?

 

The only people who believe that are those who can't grade very well (not a crime) and those who sell over-graded krap on purpose (which is a crime).

 

(thumbs u

[PhiGam-migration]

Who comes up with the criteria that is used?

 

For example, with my extensive experience on eBay, I know for a fact that 7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain on the back cover from a cup of coffee is a 9.0.

 

overtreet's grading guide seems to be what most in the know use, is it not?

 

the ebay example given is CLEARLY a person who doesn't know how to quantify and then translate his grade....7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain can't be higher than a 6.0 this person obivously doens't know that

[comicgrinder]

Who comes up with the criteria that is used?

 

For example, with my extensive experience on eBay, I know for a fact that 7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain on the back cover from a cup of coffee is a 9.0.

 

overtreet's grading guide seems to be what most in the know use, is it not?

 

the ebay example given is CLEARLY a person who doesn't know how to quantify and then translate his grade....7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain can't be higher than a 6.0 this person obivously doens't know that

obviously

[RockMyAmadeus]

Who comes up with the criteria that is used?

 

For example, with my extensive experience on eBay, I know for a fact that 7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain on the back cover from a cup of coffee is a 9.0.

 

overtreet's grading guide seems to be what most in the know use, is it not?

 

the ebay example given is CLEARLY a person who doesn't know how to quantify and then translate his grade....7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain can't be higher than a 6.0 this person obivously doens't know that

 

I take it this is a real world example.....?

[comicgrinder]

Who comes up with the criteria that is used?

 

For example, with my extensive experience on eBay, I know for a fact that 7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain on the back cover from a cup of coffee is a 9.0.

 

overtreet's grading guide seems to be what most in the know use, is it not?

 

the ebay example given is CLEARLY a person who doesn't know how to quantify and then translate his grade....7 spine tics, a corner bend and a circular stain can't be higher than a 6.0 this person obivously doens't know that

 

I take it this is a real world example.....?

thats it in a nut shell for most people grading on ebay

[PhiGam-migration]

its not only the # of defects but also the severity of the defects. Stains, scratches, indentions are hammered in grading by CGC, but not as much by say, ebay sellers...and other who have an opinion of what the grade should be. Grading is subjective I believe...

 

eye of the beholder.....if it wasnt subjective....a lot of people would be in jail for fraud I would asume

 

this might be the only aspect of grading which could possibly be construed as subjective, imo

 

but even so, this is something which COULD be quantified (ie 1/8th of an inch color breaker = x amount of a defect, and so forth)...in which case, again..i don't find that comic grading could be subjective

[JohnT]

Grading a comic book is a subjective activity for two reasons.

 

1) The criteria for grading aren't known. If you try to use Overstreet, those guidelines are far too vague to cover every situation. And CGC's guidelines are unpublished.

 

2) Grading a book requires many judgments that have to be made by the individual. Even if there was a set of objective criteria and a set process that you could learn, you'd still be hardpressed to follow them, because there are so many factors that have to be taken in to consideration for each book. But since there isn't a set of objective criteria, grading a book is by definition a subjective activity in which the grader compares a book to his or her experience of other books and grades.

 

Now, just because grading is subjective, that doesn't mean there aren't good graders and bad graders. Good, experienced, honest graders can very reliably assign a book a grade that the vast majority of collectors will agree with. Those Ebay sellers who say grading is subjective so they won't refund money if you don't agree with their grading are either lazy or sleazy.

[Bruce1971]

I think the fact that the same book came back with different grades in a lot of re-sub cases from CGC shows thats it is subjective. After grading that many books they must have a very efficient system but even they could not come up with the same grade all the time. Most of the time it CGC seems to be within .5 of their grade with re-subs, so they have done a good job.

 

Now if the expert staff at CGC can come up with a different grade on a book, even though usually only .5, what are two different people going to come up with? I would say that grading is subjective to a point. I think any difference of up to 1.0 could be subjective, depending on the defects. It tends to be harder to grade books with one major defect then with many smaller ones.

 

Also for grading I like to factor in eye appeal. I know I saw a fugly Torchy #1?, white cover issue on CL. The book was a 7.0 or 8.0 I think and CGC graded, with a 1 inch dust shadow,. This ruined the book and I would rather have had a nice 6.0 than that book. I cant copy and paste or I would provide the link, japanese keyboard, but someone posted a detective comics with Winters or a name like that in the gold forums. This book has the guys name in large letters in pencil, but the colors are blinding on the book. If I was a detective collector I would happily pay what the book is worth without the name on the cover just for the added color and gloss. Now I have not rechecked my overstreet but if memeory serves me correct there is not a notion of adding 1.0 to a grade due to Mile High quality colors and gloss

 

I think there are a lot of collectors on the boards, maybe all the gold ones, who will pay a premium for superior colors on their books. If collectors are willing to pay extra for this attribute why is it not included in a technical grade? Collectors pay more for high grade books, this is an attribute that people always pay more for but it is not really included in grading unless books become very faded. There are probably many reasons but if grading is not subjective it would be defined and included in the grading standards.

 

Bruce

 

 

 

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Grading is subjective...but only to a very small degree.

 

Given that CGC can grade exactly the same book differently on any number of occasions, I think that's proof enough of that.

 

However, people who fight you for hours regarding its subjectivity are usually the ones who can't grade for sh!te and like to have a loophole to cover their dishonest arses. (thumbs u

[DrWatson]

loopholes

[THE_BEYONDER]

Grading is subjective...but only to a very small degree.

 

Given that CGC can grade exactly the same book differently on any number of occasions, I think that's proof enough of that.

 

However, people who fight you for hours regarding its subjectivity are usually the ones who can't grade for sh!te and like to have a loophole to cover their dishonest arses. (thumbs u

 

 

I've found that the term 'near' ......when used in conjunction with the term 'mint'.....has become increasingly subjective.

[DiceX]

Grading is subjective...but only to a very small degree.

 

Given that CGC can grade exactly the same book differently on any number of occasions, I think that's proof enough of that.

 

However, people who fight you for hours regarding its subjectivity are usually the ones who can't grade for sh!te and like to have a loophole to cover their dishonest arses. (thumbs u

 

 

I've found that the term 'near' ......when used in conjunction with the term 'mint'.....has become increasingly subjective.

 

It's like having an ugly child. All comics should be NM.