kav Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 there is no way I wouldnt have had art of that magnitude in a fireproof strongbox. i hope others learn from this. tragic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 No I believe if you read thru the past posts the cover was sold years before the fire Has that ever been confirmed. The same post claiming that also said the last page to 180 was with Len and burned up...which we now have confirmation is not th case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solar Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 there is no way I wouldnt have had art of that magnitude in a fireproof strongbox. i hope others learn from this. tragic. What good is art if no one can ever look at it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeanius Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 How about the ASM 122 cover or the Hulk 180 page? I'd much rather have the ASM cover (it really isn't even very close) - but then, my own personal biases lean towards covers over interiors, so it's really tough to compare the two, when panel pages start with such a distinct disadvantage. The fact that this is even a conversation just speaks to the incredible significance of this particular page. Aesthetically, though, it's really only a C+. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 How about the ASM 122 cover or the Hulk 180 page? I'd much rather have the ASM cover (it really isn't even very close) - but then, my own personal biases lean towards covers over interiors, so it's really tough to compare the two, when panel pages start with such a distinct disadvantage. The fact that this is even a conversation just speaks to the incredible significance of this particular page. Aesthetically, though, it's really only a C+. I would take the ASM #122 cover over the McSpidey 1, ASM 121 cover or the Hulk #180 page. So I guess in my mind that would place the value above even the McSpidey #1 cover price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeanius Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 How about the ASM 122 cover or the Hulk 180 page? I'd much rather have the ASM cover (it really isn't even very close) - but then, my own personal biases lean towards covers over interiors, so it's really tough to compare the two, when panel pages start with such a distinct disadvantage. The fact that this is even a conversation just speaks to the incredible significance of this particular page. Aesthetically, though, it's really only a C+. I would take the ASM #122 cover over the McSpidey 1, ASM 121 cover or the Hulk #180 page. So I guess in my mind that would place the value above even the McSpidey #1 cover price. That's fair - I can see that. I would also prefer ASM 122, though not by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephisto Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nothing beats ASM 328!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 No I believe if you read thru the past posts the cover was sold years before the fire Has that ever been confirmed. The same post claiming that also said the last page to 180 was with Len and burned up...which we now have confirmation is not th case. good point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter G Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Nothing beats ASM 328!!! The ASM 311 cover is a bargain at only 110k http://www.romitaman.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=17950&ArtistId=1048 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Always liked that one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjeanius Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I actually don't think that asking price is entirely unreasonable. I would peg that one at $100k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stinkininkin Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I would tend to agree with you and I'm guessing there are quite a few others who would as well. While I like Herb Trimpe as much as the next guy I suppose, if this was a depiction of the first appearance of Wart Hog Man, it would not be getting this kind of attention or commanding such a potential windfall. OA showing historic moments in comics is less appealing to me than the best pure art married to the perfect story. I would be a buyer for this page from a purely historic standpoint for maybe a few grand, but for six figures, there are thousands of pieces I would rather have. Different strokes I guess, and I certainly will not be surprised if this one goes a little nuts. When it comes to comic art, I'm a comic fan first and an art critic a distant second. Even if it isn't the prettiest piece, even if it isn't a bigger artist than Herb Trimpe, it just doesn't matter to me, as it's so memorable and historic. I can't think of many other interior pages that I'd rather have than this one. I had drinks with another collector this evening and we played the "Would you rather?" game, comparing the Hulk #180 cover to the Kirby TOS #94 cover (let's call it a $175K+ cover), the ASM #121 cover (sold last year for $286.8K) and the McSpidey #1 cover (sold for $358.5K in 2012). As much as I love the gorgeous Kirby cover, I'd rather have the more important Hulk #180 page. ASM #121 cover vs. the Hulk #180 page would be a very tough choice - I could go either way on this one depending on the day. And I'd probably take the McSpidey #1 cover over the Hulk #180 page. So, I guess that would probably peg the value at around $250-$300K based on my chosen set of trophy OA comps. But, who knows...as you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this one went a bit mental. This is very interesting to me. I think my priorities are the reverse of yours Gene. I put aesthetics first (the art critic angle), nostalgia second and historical significance last. I wonder if I am in the minority in this hobby? It would explain why my collection is filled with "pretty pictures". Maybe it's the artist in me? I've passed on many "important" pieces because the drawing or inking is flawed in my view, and I can't justify expensive prices if something looks a bit "wonky". It's honestly never occurred to me to put history into such a place of prominence. I have to think about this some more. Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I was wracking (racking?) If you don't know, who does? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nexus Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I would tend to agree with you and I'm guessing there are quite a few others who would as well. While I like Herb Trimpe as much as the next guy I suppose, if this was a depiction of the first appearance of Wart Hog Man, it would not be getting this kind of attention or commanding such a potential windfall. OA showing historic moments in comics is less appealing to me than the best pure art married to the perfect story. I would be a buyer for this page from a purely historic standpoint for maybe a few grand, but for six figures, there are thousands of pieces I would rather have. Different strokes I guess, and I certainly will not be surprised if this one goes a little nuts. When it comes to comic art, I'm a comic fan first and an art critic a distant second. Even if it isn't the prettiest piece, even if it isn't a bigger artist than Herb Trimpe, it just doesn't matter to me, as it's so memorable and historic. I can't think of many other interior pages that I'd rather have than this one. I had drinks with another collector this evening and we played the "Would you rather?" game, comparing the Hulk #180 cover to the Kirby TOS #94 cover (let's call it a $175K+ cover), the ASM #121 cover (sold last year for $286.8K) and the McSpidey #1 cover (sold for $358.5K in 2012). As much as I love the gorgeous Kirby cover, I'd rather have the more important Hulk #180 page. ASM #121 cover vs. the Hulk #180 page would be a very tough choice - I could go either way on this one depending on the day. And I'd probably take the McSpidey #1 cover over the Hulk #180 page. So, I guess that would probably peg the value at around $250-$300K based on my chosen set of trophy OA comps. But, who knows...as you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this one went a bit mental. This is very interesting to me. I think my priorities are the reverse of yours Gene. I put aesthetics first (the art critic angle), nostalgia second and historical significance last. I wonder if I am in the minority in this hobby? It would explain why my collection is filled with "pretty pictures". Maybe it's the artist in me? I've passed on many "important" pieces because the drawing or inking is flawed in my view, and I can't justify expensive prices if something looks a bit "wonky". It's honestly never occurred to me to put history into such a place of prominence. I have to think about this some more. Scott I place more importance on historical significance as well. If my collecting was simply a matter of aesthetics...well, there's no shortage of nicer art I could be buying for a lot less money. I also place a higher value on storytelling (i.e. panel pages) over "pretty pictures" (i.e. covers/splashes). The former being the true measure of comic book art, imo. However, I don't deny the thrill of a well-done cover or splash, either. I just don't knee-jerk pick the cover over the interior. Admittedly, I evaluate OA more with a reader's eye than an artist's eye (like you) so that's where the differences come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Doyle Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I would tend to agree with you and I'm guessing there are quite a few others who would as well. While I like Herb Trimpe as much as the next guy I suppose, if this was a depiction of the first appearance of Wart Hog Man, it would not be getting this kind of attention or commanding such a potential windfall. OA showing historic moments in comics is less appealing to me than the best pure art married to the perfect story. I would be a buyer for this page from a purely historic standpoint for maybe a few grand, but for six figures, there are thousands of pieces I would rather have. Different strokes I guess, and I certainly will not be surprised if this one goes a little nuts. When it comes to comic art, I'm a comic fan first and an art critic a distant second. Even if it isn't the prettiest piece, even if it isn't a bigger artist than Herb Trimpe, it just doesn't matter to me, as it's so memorable and historic. I can't think of many other interior pages that I'd rather have than this one. I had drinks with another collector this evening and we played the "Would you rather?" game, comparing the Hulk #180 cover to the Kirby TOS #94 cover (let's call it a $175K+ cover), the ASM #121 cover (sold last year for $286.8K) and the McSpidey #1 cover (sold for $358.5K in 2012). As much as I love the gorgeous Kirby cover, I'd rather have the more important Hulk #180 page. ASM #121 cover vs. the Hulk #180 page would be a very tough choice - I could go either way on this one depending on the day. And I'd probably take the McSpidey #1 cover over the Hulk #180 page. So, I guess that would probably peg the value at around $250-$300K based on my chosen set of trophy OA comps. But, who knows...as you said, I wouldn't be surprised if this one went a bit mental. This is very interesting to me. I think my priorities are the reverse of yours Gene. I put aesthetics first (the art critic angle), nostalgia second and historical significance last. I wonder if I am in the minority in this hobby? It would explain why my collection is filled with "pretty pictures". Maybe it's the artist in me? I've passed on many "important" pieces because the drawing or inking is flawed in my view, and I can't justify expensive prices if something looks a bit "wonky". It's honestly never occurred to me to put history into such a place of prominence. I have to think about this some more. Scott Aesthetics rates highly, with me, too. Nostalgia is a close second, though a lot of the artwork from my era of nostalgia isn't always well drawn ( the best case scenario is when the artwork combines aesthetics with nostalgic interest). Historical significance doesn't play too big a part, for me, if I don't particularly care for the drawing. Something like the Detective # 27 cover is historically important, but viewed artistically, isn't that good. And in a similar vein, I'd much rather own the original cover artwork to Amazing Spider-man # 18 over that for Amazing Fantasy # 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delekkerste Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 This is very interesting to me. I think my priorities are the reverse of yours Gene. I put aesthetics first (the art critic angle), nostalgia second and historical significance last. I wonder if I am in the minority in this hobby? It would explain why my collection is filled with "pretty pictures". Maybe it's the artist in me? I've passed on many "important" pieces because the drawing or inking is flawed in my view, and I can't justify expensive prices if something looks a bit "wonky". It's honestly never occurred to me to put history into such a place of prominence. I have to think about this some more. I think you probably are in the minority on this one, Scott, though, you're definitely not alone. In fact, I had a conversation with a collector about this same topic recently, and he was squarely in your camp. To him, a first appearance page did nothing for him if it wasn't exceptionally rendered - for example, he'd rate a nice BWS page from "The Frost Giant's Daughter" (one of Barry's finest works by all accounts) much higher than, say, my first Red Sonja appearance page from Conan #23 (an issue that used a lot of inkers and was rushed to meet the publication deadline), even if there wasn't anything particularly special about the content in the former page. And I get that - the FGD pages are gorgeous, even the ones where nothing is going on, whereas no one will confuse the Conan #23 art with Barry's best work. But, it's the first appearance of Red Sonja, a character I was introduced to right when I began collecting comics...to me, I feel much more of an emotional/nostalgic connection to that than just about anything else that Barry ever did, even if much of it is technically superior. I suspect there is truth in what you say - it's probably your artist's eye that leads you to weight technical mastery and aesthetics more heavily than, say, me or Felix would. And, it's not that we don't take these into consideration, but, as Felix says, if we're just going on aesthetics, there are a lot of other options out there compared to what we''re buying (including non-comic art). For me, there really has to be some connection to the material that transcends the art, whether that's nostalgia, love/appreciation of the storyline/content/characters, historical importance (related to nostalgia but perhaps a little different) or what have you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alxjhnsn Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm with Scott and the FGD guy. I'd take FGD page over the 1st Red Sonja appearance - not that I'm likely to ever be in that situation. I like pretty pictures by the guys that mean something to me. So, my ranking is: Creator Character Image Emotional response in that order, I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKA Rick Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'd rank in the influences in decision making process in this order: 1) Personally does it resonate with me aesthetically. Usually by artist name, as I collect certain artists. 2) Status. Not in the typical what others think or anything related to prestige, but more so if it's published. That's my quirk. I'd rather have a good rending that's published over a great rendering that's unpublished by the same artist. That's although I do like custom commissions, don't place high personal value to acquiring them. 3) Nostalgia. This usually relates to character content and flat out "no right, no wrong" just personal preference 4) Pricing. I don't mind buying a nice rendering for $100 by an unknown street artist, but I'd not pay $1,000 for that same piece if I feel it's not a good business decision. I would never go into debt to buy what I can't afford. Keeping in mind "you can't own everything" so being somewhat selective in making purchases. 5) Does it display well as a stand alone piece. Covers and splashes typically do, but if a panel page, is the layout of the sequential art good. Huge bonus points if it's artwork with dialogue in it, and more so if the dialogue is well written. If a page has The Thing saying "it's clobberin' time" or has the Green Lantern reciting his oath, those can make more mediocre renderings more appealing. 6) Investment potential. If at the right price or has the key elements of historical significance or nostalgia with others, and it's borderline with me and at the right price. I'd prefer "1st Appearances" over "Death of's" and also epic storylines like "Kree Skrull War", "Hush", "Identity Crisis", "Judas Contract", "Kraven's Last Hunt", "Dark Phoenix Saga", etc. - - any time you spend over $300 on 2 oz of 11" x 17" paper, it is sort of an investment to a degree, so not that reselling it is a motive the the ability to liquidate it if need be certainly is or should be a consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Doyle Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 I'm with Scott and the FGD guy. I'd take FGD page over the 1st Red Sonja appearance . . . +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfcityduck Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Even a cursory examination of the original art market shows that non-aesthetic considerations (nostalgia, character, "historical significance" to comic collectors, etc.) are a major driver of market demand and value. Which makes sense. Comic book original art buyers are interested in comic books, not fine art, which is why they commission their favorite artists to paint comic cover recreations or sketches of guys and gals in tights, instead of commissioning those artists to paint a mountain or sketch a café scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
