I don't know about you but with the new CGC changes on May 1st...

[NewWorldOrder]

It has always been my experience that someone who does not have a business or isn't engaged in the business you are engaged in always knows more about running said business than you do.

 

Basic economic principles are the same across the board, whether you're selling widgets, making widgets, marketing widgets, or grading comic books.

 

There are obviously specific niche factors, but the underlying principles always remain the same.

 

Valid criticism based on those principles is not only appropriate and healthy, it's necessary to maintain a vibrant commercial environment.

 

Rock,

 

Healthy 100% Yes, but not to understand the basic Macro/Mico Economics factors when it comes to understanding how a business is run is also key.

 

CGC is here to make money and turn a profit at all times.

 

MR=MC (Marginal Revenue=Marginal Cost)

 

Certainly.

 

My reply was merely to the implication that "only those who have run a business and/or are in the same business can offer criticism." It was said in a subtle attempt to stifle criticism and debate.

 

While such experience certainly helps, it's not necessary.

 

As to CGC, while it's not likely, they could hypothetically price themselves out of the market...yes, even the virtual monopoly they now enjoy....and what would happen if CGC had to shut down it's doors entirely because of it?

 

Because of a price hike?

 

I am assuming CGC would decrease their costs or lay off people before that.

 

Honestly, until another company with good grading and customer backing gives CGC some competition at a cheaper price then we will see.

 

Until then they can pretty much do what they want. I feel the window of opportunity for another company to come out and rival CGC is not going to happen.

 

Too many variables have to fit just right for the new company.

If your starting to think of opening a grading company to go against CGC the first model of thinking you must have is whether or not my company will get thousands of CGC resubs for your company to re-grade and if you can't.....your done.

 

 

The New Grading Company would also have to be tighter graders and cheaper in price. The other agrument of loose grading would only hurt them and make CGC look even more like the premier graders.

 

PGX anyone?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[THE_BEYONDER]

Who's to say that The Age of Encapsulation won't come to an end entirely? 10 years from now we may all look back on all of this & just shake our heads.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It has always been my experience that someone who does not have a business or isn't engaged in the business you are engaged in always knows more about running said business than you do.

 

Basic economic principles are the same across the board, whether you're selling widgets, making widgets, marketing widgets, or grading comic books.

 

There are obviously specific niche factors, but the underlying principles always remain the same.

 

Valid criticism based on those principles is not only appropriate and healthy, it's necessary to maintain a vibrant commercial environment.

Hello, someone.

 

Typical and expected reaction, not to mention inaccurate. (thumbs u

 

Predictability is tres boring.

Please stop talking to me. Thank you. (thumbs u

 

There's an ignore function. (thumbs u

[NewWorldOrder]

Who's to say that The Age of Encapsulation won't come to an end entirely? 10 years from now we may all look back on all of this & just shake our heads.

 

Anything is possible off ocurse.

 

I bet you wont look back in that manner though.

 

Grading of collectibles once started I think it's a done deal.

[RockMyAmadeus]

It has always been my experience that someone who does not have a business or isn't engaged in the business you are engaged in always knows more about running said business than you do.

 

Basic economic principles are the same across the board, whether you're selling widgets, making widgets, marketing widgets, or grading comic books.

 

There are obviously specific niche factors, but the underlying principles always remain the same.

 

Valid criticism based on those principles is not only appropriate and healthy, it's necessary to maintain a vibrant commercial environment.

 

Rock,

 

Healthy 100% Yes, but not to understand the basic Macro/Mico Economics factors when it comes to understanding how a business is run is also key.

 

CGC is here to make money and turn a profit at all times.

 

MR=MC (Marginal Revenue=Marginal Cost)

 

Certainly.

 

My reply was merely to the implication that "only those who have run a business and/or are in the same business can offer criticism." It was said in a subtle attempt to stifle criticism and debate.

 

While such experience certainly helps, it's not necessary.

 

As to CGC, while it's not likely, they could hypothetically price themselves out of the market...yes, even the virtual monopoly they now enjoy....and what would happen if CGC had to shut down it's doors entirely because of it?

 

Because of a price hike?

 

"they could hypothetically price themselves out of the market"

 

That means not just one single price hike.

 

Death by a thousand little cuts, not one single one. GM isn't in the trouble that it is now because of one big single action, but a series of small policy changes over a number of years.

 

Is it likely with CGC at THIS point? No. Is it possible? Certainly.

 

I am assuming CGC would decrease their costs or lay off people before that.

 

Honestly, until another company with good grading and customer backing gives CGC some competition at a cheaper price then we will see.

 

There is a point at which CGC cannot raise prices, regardless of costs, and continue to remain profitable, or even operate at an acceptable loss. As prices rise, submissions fall, and the remaining submissions need to bear the the loss in revenue from decreased submissions. Prices rise further to compensate for the lost revenue, which results in further decreases in submissions, which leads to higher costs per submission. It's a vicious lil' spiral.

 

Again, even with the functional monopoly they currently enjoy.

 

Until then they can pretty much do what they want.

 

Really? So, if they charged $1,000 to grade a modern book, which they can do, would anybody submit? If they charged $100,000 to grade a Golden Age book, would anybody submit?

 

If not, they can't do ANYTHING they want. The trick is to find the sweet spot between prices charged and further submissions.

 

I feel the window of opportunity for another company to come out and rival CGC is not going to happen.

 

Too many variables have to fit just right for the new company.

If your starting to think of opening a grading company to go against CGC the first model of thinking you must have is whether or not my company will get thousands of CGC resubs for your company to re-grade and if you can't.....your done.

 

 

The New Grading Company would also have to be tighter graders and cheaper in price. The other agrument of loose grading would only hurt them and make CGC look even more like the premier graders.

 

PGX anyone?

 

 

PGX failed because Daniel Patterson failed. He had no grasp of how to run a business, and he had several severe breaches in ethics.

 

For another grading company to succeed, they have to have the backing of major players in the industry (Heritage, Sotheby's, major dealers), and they must be so far above any hint of questionable activity as to almost be angelic.

 

Tough, but not impossible.

[RockMyAmadeus]

One of the better decisions that CGC made was listening to the smart folks in the industry and ditching the "modern" designation because in 2038, 1983 won't be considered "Modern."

 

What would have made more sense as far as the tier goes is to set a fixed period for "Modern", and then move that time period up each and every year. I "30 years" was that time period, then 2005 would be the last year to submit 1975 books under the "Modern" tier, then '76, then '77, and so forth...which would have resulted in an easier transition for people who deal in those years, and would have prepared them.

 

What also would have made more sense would have been gradual, but consistent price increases over the years, instead of big ones every once in a while, which results in "lurches" as the market adjusts.

 

But none of that happened, so it is what it is.

 

That doesn't mean, however, that such a tack can be taken in the future. In 2015, only 6 years from now, 1980 won't really be "modern" anymore, if it even is now, right?

[Ghost Town]

What also would have made more sense would have been gradual, but consistent price increases over the years, instead of big ones every once in a while, which results in "lurches" as the market adjusts.

With the exception of the new cutoff date for moderns, I think CGC's two price increases (in 9 years) have been pretty small. I'll gladly take that over consistent price increases through the years.

[Warlord]

I don't think this will work in CGCs financial favor in the short term. The prices will result in fewer submissions resulting in less cash flow through CGC.

 

 

I predict that they will see a surge this month and then the 1975-1980 subs are going to be minimal for many months..

[Warlord]

What would have made more sense as far as the tier goes is to set a fixed period for "Modern", and then move that time period up each and every year.

 

What also would have made more sense would have been gradual, but consistent price increases over the years, instead of big ones every once in a while, which results in "lurches" as the market adjusts.

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

What also would have made more sense would have been gradual, but consistent price increases over the years, instead of big ones every once in a while, which results in "lurches" as the market adjusts.

With the exception of the new cutoff date for moderns, I think CGC's two price increases (in 9 years) have been pretty small. I'll gladly take that over consistent price increases through the years.

 

The change of the 20% "perma-discount" to 10% was a de facto price increase, which makes 3.

 

If the aggregate consistent price increases = the same net prices that will take affect on May 1, 2009, then what would you prefer?

[Flaming_Telepath]

Google 'much ado about nothing' and I think you'll find they link this thread.

 

Over time, I have come to firmly believe that CGC could be exposed as a front for the Taliban and they would still continue to flourish. A price hike/tier realignment of this nature won't even produce a sharp intake of breath down in Sarasota.

 

Why not?

 

Oh, various reasons...

 

(1) They are a monopoly.

 

(2) They cater to a market that, no matter what, simply must have its 'fix' (just look at all the venues/sellers that, despite quite serious ethical & criminal aberrations, continue to trade because 'they've got such sweet books, dude').

 

(3) They have ridden out the PCS fustercluck, the Ewert scandal, the utterly risible Wizard 1st programme, the loss of their premier public face, the 'it was a 4.0, but now it's a 9.0' comedy, and numerous other faux pas without so much as blinking.

 

Just like any other price rise/change of terms, there will be an outcry from the customer base, followed by enraged promises from said base to 'cut back', or 'walk away'. When you are a monopoly, however, this never seems to pan out, and it won't here either.

 

What will happen is that there is going to be a noticeable surge in submissions between now and D-Day. In fact, judging by some of your comments, there are likely to be submissions of books that otherwise would not have made it to Sarasota in different circumstances, so there's some additional revenue right there. This will give CGC a nice little bump in income (money in the bank, and all that) and have the effect of pushing back turn-around times. Whilst they are wading through the upsurge in subs, a number of customers will be 'swearing off' submitting, which won't be too bad a thing for CGC, because they will be already stretched.

 

But this won't last. Time heals and soon, folk will have a few 'prime grading candidates' and will be twitching for the thrill of the submission process. 'Is it a 9.6 or could it get a 9.8?', they'll be asking themselves. 'How much coin will I be leaving on the table if I don't slab it?' will also be crossing more than a few people's mind.

 

And so the mail to Sarasota starts to swell once again, just as CGC are clearing out the large surge they received at the end of April. Credit cards are charged, graders get out their white gloves, and all is right with the world once more.

 

Mission accomplished.

[Ghost Town]

What also would have made more sense would have been gradual, but consistent price increases over the years, instead of big ones every once in a while, which results in "lurches" as the market adjusts.

With the exception of the new cutoff date for moderns, I think CGC's two price increases (in 9 years) have been pretty small. I'll gladly take that over consistent price increases through the years.

 

The change of the 20% "perma-discount" to 10% was a de facto price increase, which makes 3.

 

If the aggregate consistent price increases = the same net prices that will take affect on May 1, 2009, then what would you prefer?

I'd still take the 3 separate price bumps over small gradual increases. I've submitted tons of books since the last price increase and gradual increases would have cost me more money.

[Mr. Zipper]

Google 'much ado about nothing' and I think you'll find they link this thread.

 

Over time, I have come to firmly believe that CGC could be exposed as a front for the Taliban and they would still continue to flourish. A price hike/tier realignment of this nature won't even produce a sharp intake of breath down in Sarasota.

 

Why not?

 

Oh, various reasons...

 

(1) They are a monopoly.

 

(2) They cater to a market that, no matter what, simply must have its 'fix' (just look at all the venues/sellers that, despite quite serious ethical & criminal aberrations, continue to trade because 'they've got such sweet books, dude').

 

(3) They have ridden out the PCS fustercluck, the Ewert scandal, the utterly risible Wizard 1st programme, the loss of their premier public face, the 'it was a 4.0, but now it's a 9.0' comedy, and numerous other faux pas without so much as blinking.

 

Just like any other price rise/change of terms, there will be an outcry from the customer base, followed by enraged promises from said base to 'cut back', or 'walk away'. When you are a monopoly, however, this never seems to pan out, and it won't here either.

 

What will happen is that there is going to be a noticeable surge in submissions between now and D-Day. In fact, judging by some of your comments, there are likely to be submissions of books that otherwise would not have made it to Sarasota in different circumstances, so there's some additional revenue right there. This will give CGC a nice little bump in income (money in the bank, and all that) and have the effect of pushing back turn-around times. Whilst they are wading through the upsurge in subs, a number of customers will be 'swearing off' submitting, which won't be too bad a thing for CGC, because they will be already stretched.

 

But this won't last. Time heals and soon, folk will have a few 'prime grading candidates' and will be twitching for the thrill of the submission process. 'Is it a 9.6 or could it get a 9.8?', they'll be asking themselves. 'How much coin will I be leaving on the table if I don't slab it?' will also be crossing more than a few people's mind.

 

And so the mail to Sarasota starts to swell once again, just as CGC are clearing out the large surge they received at the end of April. Credit cards are charged, graders get out their white gloves, and all is right with the world once more.

 

Mission accomplished.

 

Bravo. Clear thinking and realistic.

 

BTW, I recently attended a webinar by a highly respected marketing guru... the subject was "Addressing Your Online Critics."

 

Essentially, rule #1 was "Bring your critics into your own house." (Message board/blog).

 

Why? Because then your fans/supporters can address complaints and blunt criticism rather than the company. This is the "PR home run."

 

You think CGC had that in mind when creating these boards or just happily stumbled into their home run?

[THE_BEYONDER]

Google 'much ado about nothing' and I think you'll find they link this thread.

 

Over time, I have come to firmly believe that CGC could be exposed as a front for the Taliban and they would still continue to flourish. A price hike/tier realignment of this nature won't even produce a sharp intake of breath down in Sarasota.

 

Why not?

 

Oh, various reasons...

 

(1) They are a monopoly.

 

(2) They cater to a market that, no matter what, simply must have its 'fix' (just look at all the venues/sellers that, despite quite serious ethical & criminal aberrations, continue to trade because 'they've got such sweet books, dude').

 

(3) They have ridden out the PCS fustercluck, the Ewert scandal, the utterly risible Wizard 1st programme, the loss of their premier public face, the 'it was a 4.0, but now it's a 9.0' comedy, and numerous other faux pas without so much as blinking.

 

Just like any other price rise/change of terms, there will be an outcry from the customer base, followed by enraged promises from said base to 'cut back', or 'walk away'. When you are a monopoly, however, this never seems to pan out, and it won't here either.

 

What will happen is that there is going to be a noticeable surge in submissions between now and D-Day. In fact, judging by some of your comments, there are likely to be submissions of books that otherwise would not have made it to Sarasota in different circumstances, so there's some additional revenue right there. This will give CGC a nice little bump in income (money in the bank, and all that) and have the effect of pushing back turn-around times. Whilst they are wading through the upsurge in subs, a number of customers will be 'swearing off' submitting, which won't be too bad a thing for CGC, because they will be already stretched.

 

But this won't last. Time heals and soon, folk will have a few 'prime grading candidates' and will be twitching for the thrill of the submission process. 'Is it a 9.6 or could it get a 9.8?', they'll be asking themselves. 'How much coin will I be leaving on the table if I don't slab it?' will also be crossing more than a few people's mind.

 

And so the mail to Sarasota starts to swell once again, just as CGC are clearing out the large surge they received at the end of April. Credit cards are charged, graders get out their white gloves, and all is right with the world once more.

 

Mission accomplished.

 

Bravo. Clear thinking and realistic.

 

BTW, I recently attended a webinar by a highly respected marketing guru... the subject was "Addressing Your Online Critics."

 

Essentially, rule #1 was "Bring your critics into your own house." (Message board/blog).

 

Why? Because then your fans/supporters can address complaints and blunt criticism rather than the company. This is the "PR home run."

 

You think CGC had that in mind when creating these boards or just happily stumbled into their home run?

 

No need to apoligize....when one has apologists.

[Dale Roberts]

Obviously, there could be real competition in the future. It has happened in the past in different hobbies and there is no reason it won't eventually happen here. There are lots of things that CGC does that don't make people happy, and that leaves room for competition.

 

Lets say a company came along and hired 2 or 3 experienced qualified comic people(just for fun, lets say Marnin, Joe V, and Doug Salupa) as graders, hired a top restoration consultant(say they tied this in with Susan C), offered lower prices, more timely service, a different grading scale (maybe a 100 point grading scale) and classified pressing as restoration. Immediately, several people on this board would begin using this service. No question, it would takes some serious money and time to reach the level of CGC, but it is possible and likely that at some point, someone else is going to grade books and be respected within the hobby.

 

Let me be clear, I am NOT complaining about CGC. I think Mark and the crew do an outstanding job. And I will continue to submit books as always. But if there is a company making money, somebody else is going to come along eventually and want part of that market share. It just is not going to be somebody like PGX who is running the operation from their basement.

 

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

Obviously, there could be real competition in the future. It has happened in the past in different hobbies and there is no reason it won't eventually happen here. There are lots of things that CGC does that don't make people happy, and that leaves room for competition.

 

Lets say a company came along and hired 2 or 3 experienced qualified comic people(just for fun, lets say Marnin, Joe V, and Doug Salupa) as graders, hired a top restoration consultant(say they tied this in with Susan C), offered lower prices, more timely service, a different grading scale (maybe a 100 point grading scale) and classified pressing as restoration. Immediately, several people on this board would begin using this service. No question, it would takes some serious money and time to reach the level of CGC, but it is possible and likely that at some point, someone else is going to grade books and be respected within the hobby.

 

Let me be clear, I am NOT complaining about CGC. I think Mark and the crew do an outstanding job. And I will continue to submit books as always. But if there is a company making money, somebody else is going to come along eventually and want part of that market share. It just is not going to be somebody like PGX who is running the operation from their basement.

 

 

In the main, I agree with the principles, but I can't see it happening.

 

Why? Well, mainly because a fair chunk of the blue chip product is already in a slab. Certainly the pedigrees are, as well as the collections of the rich and famous, and as we've seen of late, these are the books that are continuing to make the record prices, whereas the rest...the run-of-the-mill stuff...isn't doing quite so well.

 

So you have to come up with an angle and this is where it gets difficult. You grade tougher and the slab buyers love it...but the submitters don't. You're more lax with the grading and the submitters love it...but the slabbed product collects dust on their wall displays. You charge a lot less...but you've got no regular income stream, and won't have for some time to come, and you have your start-up costs to cover.

 

I think if somebody can come up with 'the angle' (and I admit that I can't), this could be a runner. But to stand any chance of even appearing on CGC's radar, it's going to have to be one hell of an angle!

 

[Dale Roberts]

Obviously, there could be real competition in the future. It has happened in the past in different hobbies and there is no reason it won't eventually happen here. There are lots of things that CGC does that don't make people happy, and that leaves room for competition.

 

Lets say a company came along and hired 2 or 3 experienced qualified comic people(just for fun, lets say Marnin, Joe V, and Doug Salupa) as graders, hired a top restoration consultant(say they tied this in with Susan C), offered lower prices, more timely service, a different grading scale (maybe a 100 point grading scale) and classified pressing as restoration. Immediately, several people on this board would begin using this service. No question, it would takes some serious money and time to reach the level of CGC, but it is possible and likely that at some point, someone else is going to grade books and be respected within the hobby.

 

Let me be clear, I am NOT complaining about CGC. I think Mark and the crew do an outstanding job. And I will continue to submit books as always. But if there is a company making money, somebody else is going to come along eventually and want part of that market share. It just is not going to be somebody like PGX who is running the operation from their basement.

 

 

In the main, I agree with the principles, but I can't see it happening.

 

Why? Well, mainly because a fair chunk of the blue chip product is already in a slab. Certainly the pedigrees are, as well as the collections of the rich and famous, and as we've seen of late, these are the books that are continuing to make the record prices, whereas the rest...the run-of-the-mill stuff...isn't doing quite so well.

 

So you have to come up with an angle and this is where it gets difficult. You grade tougher and the slab buyers love it...but the submitters don't. You're more lax with the grading and the submitters love it...but the slabbed product collects dust on their wall displays. You charge a lot less...but you've got no regular income stream, and won't have for some time to come, and you have your start-up costs to cover.

 

I think if somebody can come up with 'the angle' (and I admit that I can't), this could be a runner. But to stand any chance of even appearing on CGC's radar, it's going to have to be one hell of an angle!

 

 

I would think the 100 point scale would be such an angle. I also think detailed notes on the back of the slab would be something people would like. And the pressing thing. You wouldn't really have to grade tougher, just not looser either.

 

Lets say there is a book which CGC gives an 8.5. Maybe 2 graders give a 9.0, 1 gives an 8.5 and the finalizer gives it an 8.5. Maybe the book would get an 88 on a 100 point scale. That is something that could cause resubs.

 

Whatever, I think for the most part we are in agreement. Somebody is going to have do it just as well, or better, and with some differences and at a cheaper price before there will be any serious competition. Definitely not on the market right now, but history says one day it will happen.

 

 

[Mr. Zipper]

mainly because a fair chunk of the blue chip product is already in a slab. Certainly the pedigrees are, as well as the collections of the rich and famous, and as we've seen of late, these are the books that are continuing to make the record prices, whereas the rest...the run-of-the-mill stuff...isn't doing quite so well.

 

This is a major hurdle and CGC has had a 8 year head-start which does seem insurmountable.

 

However, the fact remains that a tremendous amount of valuable books are still raw. They key is finding out why those collectors have not submitted and addressing that factor. Then develop a unique proposition to attract modern submissions. This will give you a balance of volume and higher dollar submissions.

 

There are plenty of ways it could be done... but I'm not sharing them for free.

[NewWorldOrder]

Obviously, there could be real competition in the future. It has happened in the past in different hobbies and there is no reason it won't eventually happen here. There are lots of things that CGC does that don't make people happy, and that leaves room for competition.

 

Lets say a company came along and hired 2 or 3 experienced qualified comic people(just for fun, lets say Marnin, Joe V, and Doug Salupa) as graders, hired a top restoration consultant(say they tied this in with Susan C), offered lower prices, more timely service, a different grading scale (maybe a 100 point grading scale) and classified pressing as restoration. Immediately, several people on this board would begin using this service. No question, it would takes some serious money and time to reach the level of CGC, but it is possible and likely that at some point, someone else is going to grade books and be respected within the hobby.

 

Let me be clear, I am NOT complaining about CGC. I think Mark and the crew do an outstanding job. And I will continue to submit books as always. But if there is a company making money, somebody else is going to come along eventually and want part of that market share. It just is not going to be somebody like PGX who is running the operation from their basement.

 

 

I would have no real problem with that except if they considered pressing restoration then they would only have several customers not masses. Huge problem.

 

 

[musicmeta]

The increased price in grading tiers is to be expected every once in awhile. It's the transition from Modern to Economy for the 1975 to 1979 books that take the big bite in grading price...from $16 to $32 in May. I definitely see the need to move up the starting time for moderns as time goes by, so we will just have to deal with it.

 

I'll be submitting about 20 1975-1979 books before the end of May. I hope they grade out ok.