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I am gettin' mighty sick of this!! RANT AHEAD

Started by dikran,

311 posts in this topic

NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
You know, the comic book industry is full of crooks and cheaters and I try to steer clear of them as much as possible. I've had my run-in with Robojo and l learned my lesson (the last book I bought from him was listed at NM and just came back 7.5). But to have books I bought from reputable guys as raw NMs come back as 6.0s & 7.0s?? Who's a guy supposed to trust in this industry?? I'm not an expert grader, far from it, but I expect guys who are listed as OSPG advisers to at least have some semblance of expertise... Trimming, color touch, overgrading, it's enough to make me want to swear off this whole hobby forever!!! I'm tired of getting swindled!!

 

THANK GOD FOR CGC AND THE WORK THEY DO AND FOR THESE BOARDS FOR EXPOSING THE FRAUDS THAT ARE OUT TO TAKE YOUR HARD-EARNED MONEY!

 

I am done with buying raw books, actually, I am done paying anything remotely close to guide for raw books!

 

You got something to sell me? Send it to CGC first! Then we'll talk.

 

Rant over... for now.

 

CGC likes this rant! (thumbs u

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thirdgreenham

thirdgreenham

Posted
Posted
Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

now that's a surprise!

 

 

:o

 

 

Nooooooooooooooooooooottt reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeaaaaalllllllllllyyyyyy...............

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dikran

dikran

Posted
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I'm just sick of the comic book guy falling into the same category as used car salesmen. I know there are some really great sellers on here and I've dealt with many of them already. Again, I'm not an expert grader, I cant really tell the difference between 6.0 and 8.0, heck some 9.0s look worse than 5.0s I have seen... But the point is trust. I have only been doing this seriously for a couple of years and grading has a VERY steep learning curve, which is why I will leave it to CGC from now on.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

The 6.0 and the 7.5 have to be water damage or interior defects. No one could mistake a 6.0 for a NM/Nm- on its face.

 

Could also be staining and rusty staples. I bring a magnifying glass to cons now. I don't trust my own eyes anymore, let alone someone elses.

 

I am not sure, but I don't think a rusty staple or a small stain would make it go from NM to F-, prob a VF.

 

Unless the stain was immense in that case they both are out of their minds for not seeing it.

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

 

Should have inspected the books before buying.

 

YES HE SHOULD HAVE!! The burden shouldn't have to fall on the buyer. He's selling to me, I'm just a shmo who buys comics, it's HIS BUSINESS, he should know better.

 

Wrong, he could have in good faith thought they were as advertised or even flat out over graded them.., so as a buyer you need to not take on faith what anyone says unless it is understood up front that you can return the book if CGC does not agree with his grade.

 

On Ebay I can see the frustration, but you saw the books in person so there is as much, if not more responsibility on you to use due diligence and educate yourself as to what it is you are buying, or as you mentioned earlier..buy books that are already slabbed.

 

 

Agreed. Did you even ask Harley the grade or did you just assume the grade based on price? Harley is usually pretty good. I also would have gotten back to him before burning him on here. I know you're frustrated as we've all been there but it's better to get all the facts straight before proceeding (ie grading notes, a phone call or email to Harley etc). Many long time dealers will want your return business.

 

If they continue to steer you wrong then you burn your bridge with them.

 

R.

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TheWatcher

TheWatcher

Posted
Posted
Bought 3 SA Thors (128-129-130) from Harley Yee at a con in Montreal all listed in the NM-/NM range he charged me a crudload of money and wouldn't budge on the prices. I told myself, Hey he's in my OSPG, there's his pic, you can trust him. I paid and today my books came back 6.0, 7.5, & 9.0 a far cry from NM.

 

 

Should have inspected the books before buying.

 

YES HE SHOULD HAVE!! The burden shouldn't have to fall on the buyer. He's selling to me, I'm just a shmo who buys comics, it's HIS BUSINESS, he should know better.

 

Yes, but it's YOUR money. I went through what you're going through now and realized that the best thing I could do was to educate myself. You need to learn how to grade. Don't rely on someone else's opinion, dealer or not. Learn what defects CGC grades harshly so you can avoid comics with those issues. This is the best thing you can do to avoid this situation again.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
I'm just sick of the comic book guy falling into the same category as used car salesmen. I know there are some really great sellers on here and I've dealt with many of them already. Again, I'm not an expert grader, I cant really tell the difference between 6.0 and 8.0, heck some 9.0s look worse than 5.0s I have seen... But the point is trust. I have only been doing this seriously for a couple of years and grading has a VERY steep learning curve, which is why I will leave it to CGC from now on.

 

My Advise... :shy:

 

1. Only buy CGC from now on if you really dont want to learn how to grade.

 

2. By both ways (CGC/Raw) and takes 30 Minutes to see how easy it can be to tell the difference between 6.0 and 8.0. Just learning the basics can help you get started.

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NewWorldOrder

NewWorldOrder

Posted
Posted
There is no stain that I can see... What like a spaghetti stain? I'm not that useless at grading :) And the staples look fine to me...

 

Things to Consider:

 

1. Harley made a mistake, which from experience he is a great grader. Contact him and go from there.

 

2. Maybe the books got damaged in shipment to CGC?

Did you properly ship them safely?

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Bruce1971

Bruce1971

Posted
Posted

Unfortunately CGC doesnt post their grading standards so this will be a excuse you will hear from dealers.

 

I think if you are buying from a major dealer you should be getting a good resto check and withink 1.0 grade. Sure sometimes resto might slip by, but this should be the exception not the norm.

 

I think as the value of the book rises the expectation of the dealer increases as well. If I am buying a bunch of $10 silver marvels at 50% I dont expect the dealer to go over the books that well, just a eyeball grade and no resto check. If I am buying a $100 book at full value I expect the dealer to have looked for restoration and to have it graded acurately.

 

The onus should never be on the buyer, if the seller sells something it should be as stated. Since comic grading is subjective there should be an allowance for a small margin of error. Now that I have said that, as a buyer you should know collectables is full of scammers, comics included, and you should educate yourself as much as possible. If you dont want to have to educate yourself then buy CGC books or low grade readers. Buying and cracking CGC books in a variety of grades should help you learn to grade, especially if you combine it with the Overstreet grading guide.

 

Bruce

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nik

nik

Posted
Posted
There is no stain that I can see... What like a spaghetti stain? I'm not that useless at grading :) And the staples look fine to me...

 

Some helpful advice.

 

1 Check the book under a bright light. Back and front and a slight angle.

 

2 White back covers, always check for light, invisible stains, smudges, fingerprints.

 

3 Page count, staples, and interior checking is a must, as some grade a book based on the front cover only.

 

4 Bends, ticks, light creases, or waves that you can't really see how severe they are looking at the book dead on is usually what will bite you in the ass as well as light stains and/or moisture damage when submitting.

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Jeffro.

Jeffro.

Posted
Posted

Any dealer can make a mistake. It's up to both buyer AND seller to verify grade to the best of their ability.

 

I'm a little surprised by some of the responses in this thread that it's only the buyer's fault.

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Ze-man

Ze-man

Posted
Posted
There is no stain that I can see... What like a spaghetti stain? I'm not that useless at grading :) And the staples look fine to me...

 

Some helpful advice.

 

1 Check the book under a bright light. Back and front and a slight angle.

 

2 White back covers, always check for light, invisible stains, smudges, fingerprints.

 

3 Page count, staples, and interior checking is a must, as some grade a book based on the front cover only.

 

4 Bends, ticks, light creases, or waves that you can't really see how severe they are looking at the book dead on is usually what will bite you in the ass as well as light stains and/or moisture damage when submitting.

 

 

Finally, the secrets revealed behind the Nik bump.....Wait, there is no Nik bump, he just knows how to pick'um!

 

 

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kryptonitecomics

kryptonitecomics

Posted
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As others have pointed out I can feel your frustration from what you wrote but you have to take some of the responsibility when buying in person. I have been buying and selling comics since 1991 and I feel I am a pretty good grader but even the best of us miss things or we don't peanalize a book as much for certain flaws as CGC might. Saying that a book grades NM/NM- doesn't mean they will by CGC standards......dealers don't all subscribe to the same standards as CGC and you certainly can see fluctuations in grading from dealer to dealer. No a 9.0 or 9.2 book shouldn't come back as a 6.0 but I wouldn't be shocked if you contacted harley and he tried to work something out with you if you had the original receipt etc showing you purchased the books from him? hm

 

I once sold a group of 7 raw bronze age comics on Ebay and I think the grades ranged from 7.0 to 9.4. I had a 14 days no questions asked return policy for all books even though I had large high res scanned images included. The purchaser contacted me 4 months later and said that all of the books had come back lower than I had the listed.....they were in the 7.0 to 9.0 range so some could have been off a point here and there...not sure of the specifics anymore. Anyway, I graded the books using my standards which I felt were very consistant with the standards used by local dealers when I purchased the books. I did not represent my books as CGC qualified 7.0 to 9.4's nor am I an overstreet advisor but I still would have thought the books would grade out close to what I sold them as and in some cases they did not.

 

Now had the buyer looked over the books and disagreed with the grades, she could have sent them back immediately and got a full refund. Instead she held them 2 months then sent them to pgx and then she contacted me at the 4 month mark and wanted a refund for the books and all grading fees :o

 

Nothing I did was done to intentially rip off the buyer and the price she paid was probably about 10% of what the books would have cost if they were CGC'd but folks sometimes want something for nothing so to speak. Could Harley have missed some flaws.....? Certainly, and could he be using different grading standards...? It's possible.......how about reaching out to him with your concerns? (thumbs u

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