GFS Grail Frustration Syndrome?

[rob_allan]

I'm going to post something in the hopes of someone relating to it. There is the slight possibility nobody relates to it, in which case I may also find some measure of direction from that. So here it goes...

 

I feel like my comics are taunting me. (Yes outloud. Yes in the crazy way.) They're taunting me so loudly I actually find myself angry at them. My 9.8 Spidey 300 is whining at me the loudest. "Where's AF 15? We're incomplete here, guy. Can't you see the giant freaking void filling this room?"

 

See, AF15, as most of you know, is my grail. And it's become my grail in the truest sense of the word-- it's unattainable. Now, even a couple of years ago this wasn't true. In fact, I was waiting patiently for my LCS to turn up with a copy that I could do a reasonable payment plan on (maybe a month or two) and then I'd have both the pleasure of buying from my LCS, the benefit of time payments, and the piece of mind of seeing the book in-hand before scooping it up. But the call didn't come.

 

What came instead was the AF15 boom of the past year and a half or so. The consistent, daily GPA records. A $2000 4.0 that is now more in the realm of like 5 or 6K. 5.0s with chipping now are $10K and that's only IF you get a great deal.

 

After the boom started, my LCS finally got a copy. They told me they were waiting to have Stan sign it, though. And by that point the copy in the grade I originally wanted was completely unaffordable. (And now it's sigged and going for north of $20K. Gawd.)

 

So rambling aside, my collecting situation has changed entirely. My "grail" was always attainable. Or at least in my head it was. So my collection didn't feel like it was missing something so much as it felt like it was waiting on something. But I don't think these prices are going to drop, and even if they taper off now, I think that issue is beyond my economic means possibly permanently. I used to say if I got it I'd stop collecting, but now that I've pretty much resigned myself to not owning it unless my fortunes change, I'm -- considering stopping.

 

So has this happened to anyone? And did you finally throw in the towel or does that weird sense of urgency to finally nab that grail subside. My guess is there's some Superman collectors that have gone through this with an Action #1. Because I seriously don't know whether just to give up or whether I can fall in love more with the books I do have. Because for some reason I've fallen out of love with them over this. (Mostly because they're predominantly Spidey books.)

 

Would love to hear others experiences. I think somehow this is OCD-related but I can't see going to the doctor because I can't decide how I feel about my hobby.

 

-Rob-

[Ogami]

Rob, I am in the exact same boat. With the exact same book.

 

I finished my Amazing run sometime around 05. (if memory serves) I still lack only the AF15. One slipped thru my fingers in 1993 for 500$, what would now be a 5k book plus. I've never gotten over it.

 

In the meantime, since I've been back in collecting, I've probably poured north of 10k into comics in the last 7 years (more, now that I think about it) and yet I haven't focused on the AF15.

 

Well, I can only speak for myself when I say I'm not quitting. I'm planning on spending 4-6$k in the next 2 years (that's my rough dollar and time frame) to purchase this, and one only grail for myself.

 

So yes, I'm discouraged. Both by current prices and my lack of foresight in attaining it before now.

 

And no, I'm not done.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

and off-topic- I really wish people would learn to use the word grail the way you did. As in one of a kind. unique. The highest acheiveable book per the individual.

 

i get tired of seeing, "Yeah, I went to the LCS on Wed. and picked up four grails and an alternate cover grail", or seeing someone in a sale thread bemoan that he missed his "grail", only to bid on another unrelated book in another sales thread, calling it his "grail" to great applomb from the masses.

 

I have one grail. It is the AF15.

 

This is my first . It's not appropriate to my post, just wanted to use it.

 

 

[Mac Man]

Oh man... you're describing a perfect example of the collector's addiction. There's ALWAYS the lure of "the next big thing" for me. And of course, this has become tricky now that I've been moving a bit into the Golden Age Bats and Supes books--NOT a cheap genre to collect!

 

It's hard especially when you see some good deals brought out--how to say no?-)

[comixcroz]

I used to feel this way - so I can relate.

 

maybe you should sell your ENTIRE collection, take the proceeds and buy a nice 2.0 or 3.0 or higher(depending on your collection). Find a boardie that would be willing to work out time payments over say 6 months... make it happen

 

Believe me - you can do it. Just discipline yourself to save the money and don't buy ANYthing else frivolous. If it seriously is that important to you and you feel like you have a huge void because of it. make it happen man. I know someone that is selling a 3.0 that would work out time payments

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

Just think....in the mid 80s, AF 15 and the rest of the Marvel keys went DOWN in price, because they were overvalued at the time......

 

...and you could get a "mint" copy for $400-$500.

 

Besides...I'm never gonna own a Tec 27, so.....

[comixcroz]

Rob, I am in the exact same boat. With the exact same book.

 

I finished my Amazing run sometime around 05. (if memory serves) I still lack only the AF15. One slipped thru my fingers in 1993 for 500$, what would now be a 5k book plus. I've never gotten over it.

 

In the meantime, since I've been back in collecting, I've probably poured north of 10k into comics in the last 7 years (more, now that I think about it) and yet I haven't focused on the AF15.

 

Well, I can only speak for myself when I say I'm not quitting. I'm planning on spending 4-6$k in the next 2 years (that's my rough dollar and time frame) to purchase this, and one only grail for myself.

 

So yes, I'm discouraged. Both by current prices and my lack of foresight in attaining it before now.

 

And no, I'm not done.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

 

 

and off-topic- I really wish people would learn to use the word grail the way you did. As in one of a kind. unique. The highest acheiveable book per the individual.

 

i get tired of seeing, "Yeah, I went to the LCS on Wed. and picked up four grails and an alternate cover grail", or seeing someone in a sale thread bemoan that he missed his "grail", only to bid on another unrelated book in another sales thread, calling it his "grail" to great applomb from the masses.

 

I have one grail. It is the AF15.

 

This is my first . It's not appropriate to my post, just wanted to use it.

 

[thehumantorch]

I think I must be public enemy #1 on this thread after picking up my grail 5 days ago. I never thought I could get a copy and I've had FF2 to current day for 20 years but decided it was only money.

 

Don't give up hope, your copy is out there and if you really want it you will get it. If you can't afford a mid grade copy buy a restored copy or lower grade copy. A grail is a grail and a lower grade grail is still a grail but perhaps not quite as shiny.

[RockMyAmadeus]

And just remember....this boom CANNOT last, if history means anything.

 

People will move on, die, change focus...it does happen. AF #15 is a VERY common book. It's just that lots and lots and lots of people want it.

 

That will change, eventually. Even if it continues to go up, the upward pace will slow, and be caught up to by your other books, and even inflation. It's not as if AF #15 is going to become a $10,000,000 book in 9.4 in the next 10 years.

 

Unless, of course, we have hyper inflation...and then AF #15 would be the least of your worries.

[rob_allan]

I used to feel this way - so I can relate.

 

maybe you should sell your ENTIRE collection, take the proceeds and buy a nice 2.0 or 3.0 or higher(depending on your collection). Find a boardie that would be willing to work out time payments over say 6 months... make it happen

 

Believe me - you can do it. Just discipline yourself to save the money and don't buy ANYthing else frivolous. If it seriously is that important to you and you feel like you have a huge void because of it. make it happen man. I know someone that is selling a 3.0 that would work out time payments

 

 

This is one thing I've thought about doing. A couple of things hold me back...

 

1. The book that's going to be required selling for me to even be in the ballpark of AF15 is my 9.8 Spidey 300 (for which I think the market may be cool.) If I then have the AF15 but not the rest of my 9.8 Spideys (of which one there are only 8 copies of in census and it has a black cover) will I then feel the exact same way for owning that book again? In my messed up collector brain they're a little tied at the hip. 300 9.8 WP and AF15. Granted I'd be more likely to afford the 300 9.8 again, but frankly I don't think my time is long for dropping that kind of money on comics period.

 

2. I'm afraid of committing to a deal like that and then finding myself being unable to sell my current books with enough success that I fall too financially short. I'd be embarrassed and screw over a boardie. I'm pretty sure I'd have to move my Boy Comics, and I'm not confident of their liquidity at all. (There is a point at which it's not worth selling given what was paid.) I could probably move my Crowley copy of 27, but the others... hmmm

 

Appreciate the continued feedback. Seems like most everyone thinks that continued collecting is imperative. Guess I need to order my ducks to either feel more comfortable with my current books or find a way to turn my current books into what I actually want.

 

-Rob-

[joe_collector]

Or you could see a psychiatrist.

[Flaming_Telepath]

This is actually quite spooky. I've been having a low key debate with another boarder via PM and this is what I wrote earlier this week...

 

What CGC has appealled to is man's most base instinct...that of competing and having/being the best. This goes back to the hunter/gatherer societies, where you secured a wife on the basis of how well you could provide. Back in the 90s, folk would be interested in having 'the best', but all it really amounted to was discussing the various merits of comparible books, and as there was never a quantifiable way of reaching a conclusion, both parties walked away with their honour intact.

 

Now, all you've got to have is the Biggest Number and the status is all yours. This has led to people behaving in an insane manner, attempting to outdo each other at every turn, no matter what the cost.

 

Not everyone thinks like this, but those that do drive the market and we will reach a point where certain stuff is simply unattainable to the average Joe. At that point, we will have to see where the market goes, as sense of completion is also a driver for collectors. If they know they will forever be frustrated, because they simply can't get what they want, will they bother at all?

[rob_allan]

This is actually quite spooky. I've been having a low key debate with another boarder via PM and this is what I wrote earlier this week...

 

What CGC has appealled to is man's most base instinct...that of competing and having/being the best. This goes back to the hunter/gatherer societies, where you secured a wife on the basis of how well you could provide. Back in the 90s, folk would be interested in having 'the best', but all it really amounted to was discussing the various merits of comparible books, and as there was never a quantifiable way of reaching a conclusion, both parties walked away with their honour intact.

 

Now, all you've got to have is the Biggest Number and the status is all yours. This has led to people behaving in an insane manner, attempting to outdo each other at every turn, no matter what the cost.

 

Not everyone thinks like this, but those that do drive the market and we will reach a point where certain stuff is simply unattainable to the average Joe. At that point, we will have to see where the market goes, as sense of completion is also a driver for collectors. If they know they will forever be frustrated, because they simply can't get what they want, will they bother at all?

 

JC - yeah I alluded to that in my post. Also a possibility but getting rid of funnybooks is cheaper.

 

As for the above, that's quite odd. Maybe that trend is starting to happen. I'm not sure how widespread it is, nor how the compulsion in general behaves in everyone. Part of the reason for my initial post is I wondered how the sense of "what it's supposed to be" affected other collectors.

[joe_collector]

[Part of the reason for my initial post is I wondered how the sense of "what it's supposed to be" affected other collectors.

 

Well to me, they're just funny books and while I do enjoy the nostalgia and collecting aspects, if I never find a perfectly-centered 9.X of a certain issue, then who cares?

 

They're just funny books.

[rob_allan]

[Part of the reason for my initial post is I wondered how the sense of "what it's supposed to be" affected other collectors.

 

Well to me, they're just funny books and while I do enjoy the nostalgia and collecting aspects, if I never find a perfectly-centered 9.X of a certain issue, then who cares?

 

They're just funny books.

 

Well, I agree. Definitely not the biggest problem in my life, but the only one relevant to these boards.

[Davenport]

 

So has this happened to anyone? And did you finally throw in the towel or does that weird sense of urgency to finally nab that grail subside. My guess is there's some Superman collectors that have gone through this with an Action #1. Because I seriously don't know whether just to give up or whether I can fall in love more with the books I do have. Because for some reason I've fallen out of love with them over this. (Mostly because they're predominantly Spidey books.)

 

Would love to hear others experiences. I think somehow this is OCD-related but I can't see going to the doctor because I can't decide how I feel about my hobby.

 

-Rob-

If you’re not truly in the grips of a psychological disorder then it’s just a matter of a "reality check":

 

First, ask yourself what you will do with your 'collection' once it’s complete. Will you lend it to a museum? Probably not. The reality is most 'collectors' are actually caretakers... for a time. They either sell off the pieces or pass their collection to a relative or friend (who will sell it after a time).

 

Another reality, and I truly believe this, is all the joy and excitement of collecting comics isn’t in the books. It’s in the person. Having a physical example of what you love and enjoy is just owning a mirror. Internet scans and reprint volumes are sweet reflections too, in the absence of an actual example.

 

And the topper. The hard reality... Some back issue prices have hit insane levels. Deal with it. Just how much are you willing to spend on an ego mirror? That’s the question. You’re the one who projected a deep sense of longing on to an old magazine, and you’re the one who can turn the volume down on that emotional nonsense (if it’s truly causing you distress).

 

If you're a fan of the material try to find another expression of it. Learn to draw. Try writing comics. Or sculpting comic figures. Collect posters, or toys, or con sketches. There's a bazillion ways to enjoy fandom. Just turn up the joy in your soul and take a look around. (thumbs u

 

 

 

[rob_allan]

 

So has this happened to anyone? And did you finally throw in the towel or does that weird sense of urgency to finally nab that grail subside. My guess is there's some Superman collectors that have gone through this with an Action #1. Because I seriously don't know whether just to give up or whether I can fall in love more with the books I do have. Because for some reason I've fallen out of love with them over this. (Mostly because they're predominantly Spidey books.)

 

Would love to hear others experiences. I think somehow this is OCD-related but I can't see going to the doctor because I can't decide how I feel about my hobby.

 

-Rob-

If you’re not truly in the grips of a psychological disorder then it’s just a matter of a "reality check":

 

First, ask yourself what you will do with your 'collection' once it’s complete. Will you lend it to a museum? Probably not. The reality is most 'collectors' are actually caretakers... for a time. They either sell off the pieces or pass their collection to a relative or friend (who will sell it after a time).

 

Another reality, and I truly believe this, is all the joy and excitement of collecting comics isn’t in the books. It’s in the person. Having a physical example of what you love and enjoy is just owning a mirror. Internet scans and reprint volumes are sweet reflections too, in the absence of an actual example.

 

And the topper. The hard reality... Some back issue prices have hit insane levels. Deal with it. Just how much are you willing to spend on an ego mirror? That’s the question. You’re the one who projected a deep sense of longing on to an old magazine, and you’re the one who can turn the volume down on that emotional nonsense (if it’s truly causing you distress).

 

If you're a fan of the material try to find another expression of it. Learn to draw. Try writing comics. Or sculpting comic figures. Collect posters, or toys, or con sketches. There's a bazillion ways to enjoy fandom. Just turn up the joy in your soul and take a look around. (thumbs u

 

 

 

I should probably clarify that it's not causing me real-life distress. Just trying to figure out what my collection means to me in the context of the market currently and where I see it evolving (which can always be wrong.)

 

I draw, have taken a healthy stab at writing comics, and write a ton of music in a totally unrelated hobby (guitar.) And I agree entirely that those things can be better than a comicbook at any given time.

 

But with the framework of collecting, I think many of us have an expectation of completion (be it a run, keys, first issues, first appearances, etc.) and I am experiencing a phenomenon that I feel jeopardizes my own idea of "completion" of my own collection. Even if I personally had $10K extra to spend in life, I'm not sure I'd spend it on a comicbook despite my love for them. Because I think there is a difference between money my family and I can enjoy/use vs. money only I enjoy/use. My wife and I actually had an odd disagreement on this point because she doesn't see necessarily the problem of us tightening up on things so I can make a run at it someday. But I actually do because I value some of the other things we do more than a simple hobby. (Darned if I managed to successfully explain this, though. )

 

-Rob-

[Davenport]

Even if I personally had $10K extra to spend in life, I'm not sure I'd spend it on a comicbook despite my love for them. Because I think there is a difference between money my family and I can enjoy/use vs. money only I enjoy/use. My wife and I actually had an odd disagreement on this point because she doesn't see necessarily the problem of us tightening up on things so I can make a run at it someday. But I actually do because I value some of the other things we do more than a simple hobby. (Darned if I managed to successfully explain this, though. )

 

-Rob-

Sounds like your wife loves you more than her "stuff". And it sounds like you love your wife more than your "stuff". Some disagreement. More like a cause for celebration.

 

The AF 15? No offense, but it's Spider-man. OK? Spider-man. Let it go. The world wont end if you do.

[Chespirito]

[Part of the reason for my initial post is I wondered how the sense of "what it's supposed to be" affected other collectors.

 

Well to me, they're just funny books and while I do enjoy the nostalgia and collecting aspects, if I never find a perfectly-centered 9.X of a certain issue, then who cares?

 

They're just funny books.

 

I love books but, We are all dust in 100 years

[rob_allan]

Even if I personally had $10K extra to spend in life, I'm not sure I'd spend it on a comicbook despite my love for them. Because I think there is a difference between money my family and I can enjoy/use vs. money only I enjoy/use. My wife and I actually had an odd disagreement on this point because she doesn't see necessarily the problem of us tightening up on things so I can make a run at it someday. But I actually do because I value some of the other things we do more than a simple hobby. (Darned if I managed to successfully explain this, though. )

 

-Rob-

Sounds like your wife loves you more than her "stuff". And it sounds like you love your wife more than your "stuff". Some disagreement. More like a cause for celebration.

 

The AF 15? No offense, but it's Spider-man. OK? Spider-man. Let it go. The world wont end if you do.

 

Yeah my marriage is awesome.

 

And -- no it won't. I don't think I implied that either. Just trying to decide what path to take this hobby down is all. And I have two very concrete and differing possibilities on that currently.

[skinnys_pal_tubby]

They're comic books. It's a hobby that's suposed to make you happy.

 

If they're not, and they're stressing you out, for whatever reason, it's time to quit them for a while. I did. And when I got back into them, I had a different perspective about the hobby, and I'm alot more happy collecting comics than I ever was.