DC and Marvel- Orginals and Knockoffs

[seank]

Here's some that I think don't have easy knockoffs. (again, Marvel and DC only)

 

 

 

Hulk = Solomon Grundy

 

Solomon Grundy predates The Hulk by several decades. He first appeared in All-American Comics in 1944.

 

My inclination is to say that The Hulk wasn't so much a knockoff but more of a Lee/Kirby tweaking of their 50s monster work to fit it into the successful FF style they were pioneering.

[iggy]

Marvel had fun with the origin of Superman in Fear #18 introducing a forgetable character in the Man-Thing run...

[Ken Aldred]

Wolverine, as drawn by Dave Cockrum, looks so close to Timber Wolf, as drawn by him in the Legion, they are almost in the "separated at birth" category. Have a look at the cover to Legion Archives Volume 11.

 

Very similar costume design there to John Byrne's later black and brown costume for Wolverine.

 

Cockrum's Legion was one of my first favourite series in the 1970's, and I actually crossed over to reading new X-Men partly because it was drawn by Cockrum and had an interesting feral Timber Wolf-like character in it, which eventually became a lot better developed than its predecessor.

 

Others that come to mind:

 

Green Lantern / Quasar (Lensman-type characters)

 

Green Lantern Corps / Nova Corps

 

origin of Hal Jordan, Green Lantern / origin of Rich Rider, Nova

 

Captain Marvel (DC) and Billy Batson / Captain Marvel (Mar-Vell) and Rick Jones when they were using the Nega-Bands

 

 

I read somewhere that Superman was also partly intended by his creators to be an inversion of John Carter of Mars.

 

Superman (heavy gravity world= Krypton, low gravity world=Earth)

 

compare with

 

John Carter (heavy gravity world = Earth, low gravity world=Mars)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[heinlein99]

How about the Vision / 70's Red Tornado?

[BRB-migration]

Wolverine, as drawn by Dave Cockrum, looks so close to Timber Wolf, as drawn by him in the Legion, they are almost in the "separated at birth" category. Have a look at the cover to Legion Archives Volume 11.

 

I think there was a nod to this when Wolverine wore the "feral" costume of a fallen Shi'ar warrior. It can be seen on the cover of Iron Fist # 15.

[SilverRich]

What about JLA / Avengers? Would think that more of a comparison then fantastic four.

 

FF was created partly in response to the success of DC's JLA. The other, more significant factor was Stan Lee's desire to do a comic book with more depth of character.

 

 

What he said.

[Drakeprimeone]

Is there a DC counterpart to Punisher, Wolverine or Bullseye?

 

And who came first? Deathstroke or the bad guy from the Avengers with all the different weapons? Weaponstroke?

 

Actually it would be

Deathstroke = Deadpool

 

I believe all or most of the Watchmen are Ripoffs

 

Batman/Owlman

Dr. Manhattan/Captain Atom

for example

 

 

[seanfingh]

Is there a DC counterpart to Punisher, Wolverine or Bullseye?

 

And who came first? Deathstroke or the bad guy from the Avengers with all the different weapons? Weaponstroke?

 

Actually it would be

Deathstroke = Deadpool

 

I believe all or most of the Watchmen are Ripoffs

 

Batman/Owlman

Dr. Manhattan/Captain Atom

for example

 

 

The Watchmen are Charlton character knockoffs.

[Drakeprimeone]

Is there a DC counterpart to Punisher, Wolverine or Bullseye?

 

And who came first? Deathstroke or the bad guy from the Avengers with all the different weapons? Weaponstroke?

 

Actually it would be

Deathstroke = Deadpool

 

I believe all or most of the Watchmen are Ripoffs

 

Batman/Owlman

Dr. Manhattan/Captain Atom

for example

 

 

The Watchmen are Charlton character knockoffs.

 

Yes, I didn't mention they were Charlton in origin but were acquired by D.C. and still "rip offs" of the characters

Blue Beetle & Batman / Owlman

Doc Manhattan / Captain Atom

Rorschach / The Question

The Comedian / Peacemaker with a little Nick Fury?

Silk Spector / Nightshade, Black Canary, Phantom Lady

[Ogami]

actually, even though Watchmen used Charlton characters as guides, Moore meant them to be archetypal.

 

I saw Moore talking about this just the other day; Rorschach wasn't meant to embody The Question, but Batman. He explained that if the Batman really existed, he would be the sociopath that he created in Rorschach.

 

And I think the Comedian is supposed to be the twisted, funhouse mirror version of Captain America. One more Watchmen factoid- I've always seen the name "Watchmen", the hallmark of the book, as relates to his quote "Who Watches the Watchmen" and his comparisson of them to the Old Testament example of the Watchmen on the Wall ("who are these people that we trust our lives to them?"), but watching the History Channel the other day, and seeing the word Vigilante (from an Old West episode) derived from the Spanish, meaning, "Watchman", made me chuckle and realise just how brilliant old man Moore is.

 

I knew Watchmen was in part, about true Vigilantism (the Comedian has the best lines about what it truly means to be a vigilante), but to see the direct connection was neat for me.

 

Two other side notes- While in the comic book store today, was talking about this thread, and Man Thing/Swamp Thing and Solomon Grundy. Wiki mentions that Marvel thought about suing over Swamp Thing but decided not to when DC took the character "in another direction from Man-Thing". And Solomon Grundy was a folk song from the 19th century.

 

At least, that's what the comic book guy said.

[catrick339]

The Lensmen pulp action Hero ripped off by The Green Lantern

Zorro Riped off by Batman

 

Dr. Midnite / GA Daredevil - SA Daredevil.

 

And if you're allowed swipes from elsewhere...

 

Dr. Jekyll & Mister Hyde / Frankenstein -Solomon Grundy- The Hulk.

[catrick339]

Still, JLA and The Avengers seems a more valid comparison - both teams were created from already-established super-heroes. The FF consisted of all-new characters.

 

Just my 2¢

 

 

 

-slym

 

Mr. Fantastic = Plastic Man knockoff

Human Torch = Stan tweaking an old character he had the rights to

The Thing = superhero spin on the monsters that paid Stan's rent through the 1950s. Arguably an archetype that goes back several hundred years to the Beast in Beauty and the Beast.

Invisible Girl = original? Nope. Google Invisible Scarlet O'Neil Although H.G. Wells beat Stan by several decades. But making the invisble one a woman was good thinking by Stan.

[bumpjay]

Excellent thread...

 

How about the Bob Rozakis written/Tony Isabella edited, D i c k Ayers/Jack Abel drawn knock-off/homage to the Invaders/All-Winners Squad...

The Crusaders....from Freedom Fighters 7-8.

 

 

 

 

I swear this to be true...when I was a kid, I kept this book to show to my friends, for one reason and one reason only.....to PROVE that DC sucked, and could do nothing more than rip-off Marvel Comics...!!!!

AAAHHHH...to be young and naive again.....

 

Don't think I saw the Green Arrow/Hawkeye comparison made.....

 

(thumbs u

 

Bump

 

 

[Silver Surfer]

Here's some that I think don't have easy knockoffs. (again, Marvel and DC only)

 

Punisher

Wolverine

Spider-Man

Superman

Batman

The Hulk

Iron Man

 

 

Add Thor to the list.

[goldust40]

Excellent thread...

 

How about the Bob Rozakis written/Tony Isabella edited, D i c k Ayers/Jack Abel drawn knock-off/homage to the Invaders/All-Winners Squad...

The Crusaders....from Freedom Fighters 7-8.

 

 

 

 

I swear this to be true...when I was a kid, I kept this book to show to my friends, for one reason and one reason only.....to PROVE that DC sucked, and could do nothing more than rip-off Marvel Comics...!!!!

AAAHHHH...to be young and naive again.....

 

Don't think I saw the Green Arrow/Hawkeye comparison made.....

 

(thumbs u

 

Bump

 

 

Which of course reminds me of Claw The Unconquered and Richard Dragon, Kung Fu Fighter. DC really were clutching at straws in the mid-70s.

 

 

[bumpjay]

 

Which of course reminds me of Claw The Unconquered and Richard Dragon, Kung Fu Fighter. DC really were clutching at straws in the mid-70s.

 

 

HAHA....I hear you, brother......

And even into the 80's I always (at the time, and still do to some degree) felt that DC tried to capitalize all of Marvels ideas....

Marvel was the first to aggressively market the mini-series format,which DC quickly followed suit, the "Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe" was then done by DC with the "Who's Who",...the Marvel "Secret Wars"=Crisis on infinite earths,......amongst other things.

 

 

(thumbs u

Bump

 

[Ogami]

Excellent thread...

 

How about the Bob Rozakis written/Tony Isabella edited, D i c k Ayers/Jack Abel drawn knock-off/homage to the Invaders/All-Winners Squad...

The Crusaders....from Freedom Fighters 7-8.

 

 

 

 

I swear this to be true...when I was a kid, I kept this book to show to my friends, for one reason and one reason only.....to PROVE that DC sucked, and could do nothing more than rip-off Marvel Comics...!!!!

AAAHHHH...to be young and naive again.....

 

Don't think I saw the Green Arrow/Hawkeye comparison made.....

 

(thumbs u

 

Bump

 

 

W O W, that is weak. like intentionally parodic.

[Ogami]

Here's some that I think don't have easy knockoffs. (again, Marvel and DC only)

 

Punisher

Wolverine

Spider-Man

Superman

Batman

The Hulk

Iron Man

 

 

Add Thor to the list.

 

(thumbs u

[Beau]

Excellent thread...

 

How about the Bob Rozakis written/Tony Isabella edited, D i c k Ayers/Jack Abel drawn knock-off/homage to the Invaders/All-Winners Squad...

The Crusaders....from Freedom Fighters 7-8.

 

 

 

 

I swear this to be true...when I was a kid, I kept this book to show to my friends, for one reason and one reason only.....to PROVE that DC sucked, and could do nothing more than rip-off Marvel Comics...!!!!

AAAHHHH...to be young and naive again.....

 

Don't think I saw the Green Arrow/Hawkeye comparison made.....

 

(thumbs u

 

Bump

 

 

W O W, that is weak. like intentionally parodic.

 

I bet it is intentional. Some muckety muck high up the food chain at DC probably decided to horn in on Marvel's action, and told the writer to basically come as close to copyright infringement as possible, without crossing that line. So, the writer decides to show said muckety muck how stupid his idea is by doing just that. At least, that's what I hope, because I cannot honestly believe someone could write that poorly by accident, and get paid for it.

[seank]

Which of course reminds me of Claw The Unconquered and Richard Dragon, Kung Fu Fighter. DC really were clutching at straws in the mid-70s.

 

 

HAHA....I hear you, brother......

And even into the 80's I always (at the time, and still do to some degree) felt that DC tried to capitalize all of Marvels ideas....

Marvel was the first to aggressively market the mini-series format,which DC quickly followed suit, the "Official Handbook Of The Marvel Universe" was then done by DC with the "Who's Who",...the Marvel "Secret Wars"=Crisis on infinite earths,......amongst other things.

 

 

(thumbs u

Bump

 

Perhaps, but...

 

DC was the first to do a mini-series and Crisis on Infinite Earths came from an idea Marv Wolfman had wanted to do for several decades before Secret Wars of CoIE came out. You may be right about that Official Handbook and Who's Who thing. But consider also that Marvel put out a whole lot of in the 80s that DC smartly ignored. And while DC was ignoring Marvel's , they were putting out stuff like Dark Knight Returns, Watchmen, Swamp Thing (post issue 20), and Hellblazer, all of which Marvel couldn't touch with a pair of ten-foot poles. I think DC's output in the 80s is vastly superior to Marvel's (who, I will admit, owned the 60s and 70s.)

 

I've felt recently that Marvel is essentially a superhero house, whereas DC, while it has icons such as Batman and Superman, is stronger in non-superhero genres such as horror (Vertigo), war (Sgt. Rock), western (Jonah Hex), and heroic fantasy (Warlord).