PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 20 20

[PovertyRow]

Also, I did more in depth reading of the FCBA Laws. Some relevance applies here.

 

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre16.shtm

 

The "An important caveat" (second topic below) is very interesting.

 

What types of disputes are covered?

The FCBA settlement procedures apply only to disputes about "billing errors." For example:

 

unauthorized charges. Federal law limits your responsibility for unauthorized charges to $50;

charges that list the wrong date or amount;

charges for goods and services you didn't accept or weren't delivered as agreed;

math errors;

failure to post payments and other credits, such as returns;

failure to send bills to your current address - provided the creditor receives your change of address, in writing, at least 20 days before the billing period ends; and

charges for which you ask for an explanation or written proof of purchase along with a claimed error or request for clarification.

 

It goes on to state:

 

An important caveat

Disputes about the quality of goods and services are not "billing errors," so the dispute procedure does not apply. However, if you buy unsatisfactory goods or services with a credit or charge card, you can take the same legal actions against the card issuer as you can take under state law against the seller.

 

To take advantage of this protection regarding the quality of goods or services, you must:

 

have made the purchase (it must be for more than $50) in your home state or within 100 miles of your current billing address;

 

make a good faith effort to resolve the dispute with the seller first.

 

The dollar and distance limitations don't apply if the seller also is the card issuer - or if a special business relationship exists between the seller and the card issuer.

 

[PovertyRow]

Trust me - I'll be reading through the Visa chargeback procedures.

 

(thumbs u

[Bomber-Bob]

Also, please note the 30 Day rule remains intact on the Rules list and judging from the negative responses to lowering it, it should remain.

 

I don't get it. Somebody tells you on a public internet site 'FU POV. ... You can *spoon* right off'. He effectively imposes his will on you and he wins. I'm just politely asking for consideration to a buyer who promptly pays but doesn't get his book and I lose. Is the only way to get attention around here by treating your fellow Boardies with disrespect and swearing at them? I'm shocked.

Edited July 9, 2011 by bomber-bob

[comix4fun]

Also, please note the 30 Day rule remains intact on the Rules list and judging from the negative responses to lowering it, it should remain.

 

I don't get it. Somebody tells you on a public internet site 'FU POV. ... You can *spoon* right off'. He effectively imposes his will on you and he wins. I'm just politely asking for consideration to a buyer who promptly pays but doesn't get his book and I lose. Is the only way to get attention around here by treating your fellow Boardies with disrespect and swearing at them? I'm shocked.

 

 

I don't think that's what happened here. It looks like a misunderstanding between two boardies who have known each other for several years here. I don't think anyone imposed any will on anyone. POV isn't doing anything just because the Ginger Ninja tells him to. If he had that kind of power we'd have matching ALF tattoos right now.

[PovertyRow]

Bob - several hours before Sean and I had our little chat I posted the following quoted below. Not only did I research that I also reseached the check stop payment thing, again hours before.

 

My inclination was based on those findings and came well before any mild unpleasantness.

 

Also,please remember I am NOT in charge of the Probation List Rules. . I took some initiative to compile information, word existing rules, clarify existing rules, with input where I could get it..

 

ANYONE can seek opnions, make their case, create a poll if they feel strongly about certain issues.

 

Note I specifically said "So it sounds like we are still covered after a 30 day wait." in that post.

 

Waiting 30 days may also preclude him from being able to reverse or contest the charges.

If I wait, say 15ish days, I get no indication the books have been shipped, I call my CC company. By the Board rules I may be eligible for the PL. Not sure if I like that. Sorry.

 

Bob - I bolded the main argument that prompted me to suggest the 14 days thing.(It really wasn't just rules for rules' sake.)

 

I've done some research and the Fair Trade Act specifies this in regard to disputing a charge:

 

send your letter so that it reaches the creditor within 60 days after the first bill containing the error was mailed to you.

 

So it sounds like we are still covered after a 30 day wait.

 

The relevant page is here:

 

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre16.shtm

 

I appreciate this is United States law.

[Bomber-Bob]

Bob - several hours before Sean and I had our little chat I posted this.Not only did I research that I also reseached the check stop payment thing, gain hours before.

 

My inclination was based on those findings and came well before any mild unpleasantness.

 

Waiting 30 days may also preclude him from being able to reverse or contest the charges.

If I wait, say 15ish days, I get no indication the books have been shipped, I call my CC company. By the Board rules I may be eligible for the PL. Not sure if I like that. Sorry.

 

Bob - I bolded the main argument that prompted me to suggest the 14 days thing.(It really wasn't just rules for rules' sake.)

 

I've done some research and the Fair Trade Act specifies this in regard to disputing a charge:

 

send your letter so that it reaches the creditor within 60 days after the first bill containing the error was mailed to you.

 

So it sounds like we are still covered after a 30 day wait.

 

The relevant page is here:

 

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/edu/pubs/consumer/credit/cre16.shtm

 

I appreciate this is United States law.

 

Pov, even so, I think Sean showed tremendous disrespect toward you. He should be apologizing to you and his fellow Boardies. There is no call for such language over trivial nonsense. However, I am sure after reading this he will vent his angst toward me and no longer you.

 

In the spirit of beating a dead horse (I hate that saying) can I get any consideration for a deadbeat seller that doesn't ship. Again, I never asked for a 14 day rule, just something to help motivate the seller to ship in a timely manner. I am asking this because I have experienced it too often for my liking. Most Boardies are great and follow up on their obligations but we have some slackers here. If you want me to name names then PM me.

[Bomber-Bob]

Checks may be a bit trickier. I just don't know how long a Bank will allow you to initiate a stop payment. I believe each Bank has their own policies. They usually bend a little for Fraud. Even Bank Cashier's checks can be stopped after the check is deposited if there is fraud involved. However, 30 days may be too late.

Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.

 

I did some research on that as well. Once the check is cashed you cannot put a stop payment on it.

 

Depending on which internet site you look at this is not true. I am quoting from the internet site below 'Although it is not obligated to do so, the Bank may decide to honor a Customer's request for a stop payment on either type of check. However, the Bank does so at its own risk '

I once inquired of my local Bank about a stop payment on a Cashier's check.

Their research showed the receiving Bank had deposited the check but it was not cashed(money drawn). They said they can send a request to the receiving Bank to get the funds reversed. Such requests are usually honored. In summary, though it is a courtesy with no obligation, a certified or cashier's check can be stopped.

http://www.credittoday.net/public/1480.cfm

[PovertyRow]

I am quite cool with Sean. He apologized for his jab and I apologized for mine. We are quite even in my book.

 

So we have set that aside. I hope you do as well.

 

However, I will point out you did a similar thing to me, got upset at me and acccused me of folding under pressure because your agenda was not supported. I am cool with that. It is the way of internet frustration at times.

 

But on to what IS a good point you bring up. How can we address the procrastinator? As you say, and I think it is a good point. You asked,

 

"In the spirit of beating a dead horse (I hate that saying) can I get any consideration for a deadbeat seller that doesn't ship. Again, I never asked for a 14 day rule, just something to help motivate the seller to ship in a timely manner. I am asking this because I have experienced it too often for my liking. Most Boardies are great and follow up on their obligations but we have some slackers here. If you want me to name names then PM me."

 

I think that is something really worth talking about. I don't think it falls under the Probation List but I DO think it should be addressed. Maybe the Guidelines can be expanded to address some of these issues. I really do not have all of the answers and am not sure at this point where or how best to address this.

 

Input from the members on this is certainly welcome!

 

 

[PovertyRow]

Checks may be a bit trickier. I just don't know how long a Bank will allow you to initiate a stop payment. I believe each Bank has their own policies. They usually bend a little for Fraud. Even Bank Cashier's checks can be stopped after the check is deposited if there is fraud involved. However, 30 days may be too late.

Not trying to cause trouble, just saying.

 

I did some research on that as well. Once the check is cashed you cannot put a stop payment on it.

 

Depending on which internet site you look at this is not true. I am quoting from the internet site below 'Although it is not obligated to do so, the Bank may decide to honor a Customer's request for a stop payment on either type of check. However, the Bank does so at its own risk '

I once inquired of my local Bank about a stop payment on a Cashier's check.

Their research showed the receiving Bank had deposited the check but it was not cashed(money drawn). They said they can send a request to the receiving Bank to get the funds reversed. Such requests are usually honored. In summary, though it is a courtesy with no obligation, a certified or cashier's check can be stopped.

http://www.credittoday.net/public/1480.cfm

 

As it is a courtesy and no obligation, I would not depend on it. Again, though, maybe something for inclusion in the Guideline. Perhaps encouraging people to check with their oen bank before sending a check to see what the stop payment rules are.

[greggy]

FU, everyone.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

[porcupine48]

FU, everyone.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

[PovertyRow]

FU, everyone.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

It SPEAKS!!!!!!!!!!

 

Wassamattah Greggy? Afraid your post count lead may be slipping a bit?

[greggy]

I'm a veteran.

 

I post when I choose to post.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

[PovertyRow]

I'm a veteran.

 

I post when I choose to post.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

OMG somebody call the paramedics for me! It spoke twice in a row. My heart....my heart....my hea...................

[Bomber-Bob]

I am quite cool with Sean. He apologized for his jab and I apologized for mine. We are quite even in my book.

So we have set that aside. I hope you do as well.

However, I will point out you did a similar thing to me, got upset at me and acccused me of folding under pressure because your agenda was not supported. I am cool with that. t is the way of internet frustration at times.

Pov, I was not upset with you as much as Sean. Nothing you did deserved such language and angst as he directed toward you.

I can certainly set it aside, take the high road as you did. Let's see if others do the same. I would simply like to see a little more civility on these Boards. Sometimes things get out of hand over nonsense.

I don't think I have an agenda. I just saw this discussion as an opportunity to discuss something that has been bothering me for a while = sellers that procrastinate with shipping. I am not asking asking for anything other than a little help to get these sellers a little motivation, anything, anything at all.

[PovertyRow]

I just saw this discussion as an opportunity to discuss something that has been bothering me for a while = sellers that procrastinate with shipping. I am not asking asking for anything other than a little help to get these sellers a little motivation, anything, anything at all.

 

I do agree with that. It is why I was thinking about the Guidelines as a place for that encouragement.

 

Consider the Guidelines are quite sepcific about certain things. CGC or Raw only. and...WHOAH! I just saw this. I have read them a few times now and it just sunk in.

 

The guidelines expressly specify "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods."

 

The penalty for not following the rules is also specified:

 

For Sale – Threads may be removed for failure to comply, and repeated issues could result in strikes.

 

Let me repeat Once More With Feeling: "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

 

The only way I can read that is to mean an ad without estimated shipping times is as much in violation as an ad with no prices or an ad for PGX books.

 

This appears to be an issue with enforcing what is already in place.

[Bomber-Bob]

The guidelines expressly specify "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods."

The penalty for not following the rules is also specified:

For Sale – Threads may be removed for failure to comply, and repeated issues could result in strikes.

Let me repeat Once More With Feeling: "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

The only way I can read that is to mean an ad without estimated shipping times is as much in violation as an ad with no prices or an ad for PGX books.

This appears to be an issue with enforcing what is already in place.

 

This is perfect as it would allow the buyer to decide if he wants to make a transaction with the seller.

As rules are often open to interpretation I believe the estimated shipping times would reflect the required time necessary to initiate the shipment, not necessarily the time length of the shipment, something not always in the seller's control.

[PovertyRow]

The guidelines expressly specify "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods."

The penalty for not following the rules is also specified:

For Sale – Threads may be removed for failure to comply, and repeated issues could result in strikes.

Let me repeat Once More With Feeling: "List estimated shipping costs, times, and methods.

The only way I can read that is to mean an ad without estimated shipping times is as much in violation as an ad with no prices or an ad for PGX books.

This appears to be an issue with enforcing what is already in place.

 

This is perfect as it would allow the buyer to decide if he wants to make a transaction with the seller.

As rules are often open to interpretation I believe the estimated shipping times would reflect the required time necessary to initiate the shipment, not necessarily the time length of the shipment, something not always in the seller's control.

 

That sounds right to me. The shipper can estimate the time the books will be shipped. After that it is out of control of the seller and in control of the shipping company.

[Bomber-Bob]

Pov, since it is already in the guidelines, I assume I can simply ask the seller

for his shipping times and he is expected to oblige ?

[thirdgreenham]

I'm a veteran.

 

I post when I choose to post.

 

xoxo

 

greggy

 

OMG somebody call the paramedics for me! It spoke twice in a row. My heart....my heart....my hea...................

 

well, that made me giggle.