PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[comix4fun]

I reached out to buyer.. We agreed on terms and the transaction is complete.. . I've dealt on here a long time and never had to deal with an issue like this , and will make sure never have to again.

 

 

Personally, I've learned from this whole ordeal to check all my comics for random dong drawings.

 

There may be a collecting niche for that and those would bring a premium

 

Registry set request?

 

I was thinking of calling it, "Wide World of Wangs"

[N/A]

I reached out to buyer.. We agreed on terms and the transaction is complete.. . I've dealt on here a long time and never had to deal with an issue like this , and will make sure never have to again.

 

 

Personally, I've learned from this whole ordeal to check all my comics for random dong drawings.

 

There may be a collecting niche for that and those would bring a premium

 

Registry set request?

 

I was thinking of calling it, "Wide World of Wangs"

 

Giant Size Annual Dongs?

[Point Five]

I reached out to buyer.. We agreed on terms and the transaction is complete.. .

Good on you. (thumbs u

 

 

[revat]

haha I think my point was that whether you love'em or hate'em, you would expect disclosure.

 

If nothing else so you can start a registry.

 

I reached out to buyer.. We agreed on terms and the transaction is complete.. . I've dealt on here a long time and never had to deal with an issue like this , and will make sure never have to again.

 

 

Personally, I've learned from this whole ordeal to check all my comics for random dong drawings.

 

There may be a collecting niche for that and those would bring a premium

 

Registry set request?

 

I was thinking of calling it, "Wide World of Wangs"

[VintageComics]

Try putting "no returns accepted" on your "real world" eBay listing and then sell some heavily overgraded comics - once the complaints start rolling in, you'll be forced to take the returns

 

Again ... "no returns accepted" doesn't absolve you from your most basic responsibility as a seller - ensuring the buyer gets what they paid for. If you think otherwise, you're mistaken.

 

The buyer shouldn't have to ask whether a book has tape on the interior - just like they shouldn't have to ask about a missing coupon, a popped staple or a page that's been cut out.

 

Well that's big of you as a buyer. I simply do not agree that you'd have to abide by it no matter what item arrives. There may be varying degrees of tolerance but I would expect everyone to have the line where they would return it.

 

What if it's a reprint? Married cover to another book? Extreme cases I realize. With online shopping and the inability to examine the item 1st hand I believe the rules and responsibilities of both parties need to adapt.

 

Good points the both of you.

 

When I said "real world" I meant public auction houses (not eBay). eBay has become a special culture to itself with all the mind bending that Paypal and eBay do to disarm sellers of any rights.

 

First off, I'm assuming that the seller is selling a legitimate product (not a reprint) and it's being described reasonably accurately. Of course a fraudulent item is a completely different bag. I didn't think I needed to clarify that, but being off by a 0.5 or a 1.0 is not enough in my opinion to warrant a return if you've agreed to the "no return" contract. There has to be a degree of interpretation allowed.

 

Brangent, I agree with your varying degrees of tolerance. I personally don't care about tape much on my mid grade and lower books so if I hadn't joined this forum and learned how much some people dislike it I wouldn't have thought to mention it 10 years ago. That's why if a buyer has a peeve they should ask about it. If there is something small about the book that I don't like but it's a reasonably described item (not fraudulent) and I forgot to ask and purchased it under a "no returns" agreement, I say I own the item.

 

 

[seanfingh]

 

 

 

"Brangent" That's better than "Brag-Net"

[VintageComics]

 

 

"Brangent" That's better than "Brag-Net"

 

Shuntfingh.

 

[Sqeggs]

You sell a book, don't disclose the tape, buyer is unhappy, you take it back for a full refund.

 

End of story.

 

 

Buyer commits to a book sight unseen willingly, tape is consistent with the grade (and extremely small), buyer never mentions that his :take it: is contingent on personal tape pet peeve, you turn down 4 other buyers because buyer took them sight unseen, you also sell buyer a book under-graded by 1/2 to full point grade in the same deal....do you still take it back even though it fits the grade, buyer willingly took it without contingency, and is getting the better end of the grading on the other book?

 

 

Given the recent controversy about tape, I don't think this is a minor problem any longer...and this is coming from someone who willing purchased (and still loves) books with minor amounts of tape. But I bought them, knowing there was tape and probably at a lower price point.

 

 

I've read what CGC wrote and their stance on tape, and they are now grading the book as if the tape wasn't there. If the tape INCREASED the grade by reattaching a cover (for example) they would grade the book as if the tape wasn't there thus reducing the grade.

 

If this tape was there or not there it doesn't do anything to this book. That's a less than 1/2 inch back cover tear on a book in the vg range.

 

I'm not sure what you are saying here, but CGC definitely counts tape as a defect that can lower the book's grade. The recent policy change was aimed at not allowing a book's grade to be raised by someone using tape to repair a completely split cover or to reattach a cover.

[Sqeggs]

My takeaways:

 

1. Always disclose defects some of your buyers consider important. Tape and significant staple tears should be disclosed. Don't hide behind "it's allowed in the grade." That way lies Mile High Comics!

 

2. Always pay with PayPal (not personal). That way, you have recourse should the seller pull the "no returns" gambit.

 

3. As a seller, take returns with no questions asked.

 

4. Think twice before getting embroiled in a long he said/she said in the PL discussion list. You are likely to both end up looking bad.

[skypinkblu]

If a seller misses something then they did not sell me what they claimed. I don't believe in a no return policy. It shouldn't justify lazy sellers.

 

You don't have to accept a no return policy. You can just walk away from that seller and ignore it.

 

on the other hand, if you pull the trigger on a book that has no returns stated ahead of time though, then it's all on you because you agreed with those terms before pulling the trigger.

 

The only defense would be if the "no returns" was not clearly stated in this case.

 

Otherwise, it's just another case of people not taking accountability for their actions and wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

 

For what it's worth though, I agree with you in keeping customers happy.

 

 

So if a seller sells a book with undisclosed CT and doesn't accept returns, the buyer should take "accountability for their actions" and just eat the loss?

 

Stating "no returns accepted" in a listing doesn't magically absolve the seller from his responsibility to ensure that the buyer gets what they paid for.

 

I feel like we've had this discussion before.

 

In our world resto is a big no-no, so in our culture we'd expect a return.

 

Tape is a big no-no among some people but it's one of those things where if you really don't like it, you should remember to ask about it. Sellers do make mistakes and miss things.

 

Out in the real world, if someone states "no returns" I'd expect that to be legally binding if the buyer bought knowing those terms ahead of time.

 

Again, as a seller I'd offer the return to keep the customer happy but as a buyer if I bought from a seller who stated "no return" then I'd have to accept that as the final verdict.

 

 

So now tape is like pressing? You have to ask? Really?

 

Why not just be as straight forward as you can with the defects. If you miss one, and people do...offer and give a refund.?

[skypinkblu]

 

Gambit and I worked out our differences. thanks everyone for your input.

 

Gambit sorry if I took it too far - I'll post positive Kudos on your thread.

 

 

 

 

Kudos to both of you!

[Dick Pontoon]

If a seller misses something then they did not sell me what they claimed. I don't believe in a no return policy. It shouldn't justify lazy sellers.

 

You don't have to accept a no return policy. You can just walk away from that seller and ignore it.

 

on the other hand, if you pull the trigger on a book that has no returns stated ahead of time though, then it's all on you because you agreed with those terms before pulling the trigger.

 

The only defense would be if the "no returns" was not clearly stated in this case.

 

Otherwise, it's just another case of people not taking accountability for their actions and wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

 

For what it's worth though, I agree with you in keeping customers happy.

 

 

So if a seller sells a book with undisclosed CT and doesn't accept returns, the buyer should take "accountability for their actions" and just eat the loss?

 

Stating "no returns accepted" in a listing doesn't magically absolve the seller from his responsibility to ensure that the buyer gets what they paid for.

 

I feel like we've had this discussion before.

 

In our world resto is a big no-no, so in our culture we'd expect a return.

 

Tape is a big no-no among some people but it's one of those things where if you really don't like it, you should remember to ask about it. Sellers do make mistakes and miss things.

 

Out in the real world, if someone states "no returns" I'd expect that to be legally binding if the buyer bought knowing those terms ahead of time.

 

Again, as a seller I'd offer the return to keep the customer happy but as a buyer if I bought from a seller who stated "no return" then I'd have to accept that as the final verdict.

 

 

So now tape is like pressing? You have to ask? Really?

 

Why not just be as straight forward as you can with the defects. If you miss one, and people do...offer and give a refund.?

 

SKPB is 1000 times more diplomatic than I.

[Beige]

If a seller misses something then they did not sell me what they claimed. I don't believe in a no return policy. It shouldn't justify lazy sellers.

 

You don't have to accept a no return policy. You can just walk away from that seller and ignore it.

 

on the other hand, if you pull the trigger on a book that has no returns stated ahead of time though, then it's all on you because you agreed with those terms before pulling the trigger.

 

The only defense would be if the "no returns" was not clearly stated in this case.

 

Otherwise, it's just another case of people not taking accountability for their actions and wanted to have their cake and eat it too.

 

For what it's worth though, I agree with you in keeping customers happy.

 

 

So if a seller sells a book with undisclosed CT and doesn't accept returns, the buyer should take "accountability for their actions" and just eat the loss?

 

Stating "no returns accepted" in a listing doesn't magically absolve the seller from his responsibility to ensure that the buyer gets what they paid for.

 

I feel like we've had this discussion before.

 

In our world resto is a big no-no, so in our culture we'd expect a return.

 

Tape is a big no-no among some people but it's one of those things where if you really don't like it, you should remember to ask about it. Sellers do make mistakes and miss things.

 

Out in the real world, if someone states "no returns" I'd expect that to be legally binding if the buyer bought knowing those terms ahead of time.

 

Again, as a seller I'd offer the return to keep the customer happy but as a buyer if I bought from a seller who stated "no return" then I'd have to accept that as the final verdict.

 

 

Try putting "no returns accepted" on your "real world" eBay listing and then sell some heavily overgraded comics - once the complaints start rolling in, you'll be forced to take the returns

 

Again ... "no returns accepted" doesn't absolve you from your most basic responsibility as a seller - ensuring the buyer gets what they paid for. If you think otherwise, you're mistaken.

 

The buyer shouldn't have to ask whether a book has tape on the interior - just like they shouldn't have to ask about a missing coupon, a popped staple or a page that's been cut out.

 

Mike is right - it's even written on the bottom of the listing page on ebay Australia.

There is no such thing as 'no returns' if you have an acceptable reason.

[Balham's Finest]

This is the first time for a while I can remember that a problem was raised, discussed sensibly by all and worked out to both the buyer's and the seller's satisfaction, all within 24 hours - and nobody got put on the probation list or the HOS, or given a strike.

 

Excellent stuff!

[Point Five]

This is the first time for a while I can remember that a problem was raised, discussed sensibly by all and worked out to both the buyer's and the seller's satisfaction, all within 24 hours - and nobody got put on the probation list or the HOS, or given a strike.

 

Excellent stuff!

Hey, good point! Way to go guys!

 

We should just lock this thread right now and end on a high note.

 

 

[slym2none]

Arch can get no points, either!

 

::

 

 

 

-slym

[robocard]

The piece of tape on 2nd book is the crutch he is using to get out of 1 of the books he bought (when he already tired to get out of both of them due to "falling for the hype"). Books where sold as vg/f and the census is both books are at least that. Any other problems he "has" could be resolved if the core reason wasn't just to get out if a book he over paid during hype ,regardless if that will cost the seller (me) a sale I would have had 4xs over had he not committed to buy the books in haste

 

The book was sold for xxx amount the book now goes for a third the price, he knows that and wanted out before even seeing the books, now that hype is low/gone

 

No where have I ever stated a "no return policy" however please tell me what seller accept returns because buyer fell into hype.. (After the hype calms down wants a refund) then goes and tries to find any reason to get out of the deal . I sold him the books as advertise (vg/f ) and the census agree both books are at least that

 

 

I do agree, lesson learned. I will not sell without scans again (even though with scans I feel this buyer would have acted the same way since his original reason to get out of said deal was due to "falling for hype ")

 

That's the story in a nut shell.. Whatever twist this buyer wants to make to give his reasoning support is moot. I think most would agree

 

I have not been on the Boards much lately as I have spent most of June and July with my family. I happened to click on the Graham crackers thread and see a post from the buyer referring to me (not by name) as a jerk. Some of you know me and know that I do not post much and never anything inflammatory, but after reading some of the posts here, I think Branget is spot on with why the buyer was looking to back out.

 

He committed to buying in early June my ASM 300-9.8 and 121-9.0. I waited around ten days but no check so I texted him that I would be in Ohio for two weeks and would mail the books once I got back assuming the check would come while I was gone.

 

I return in early July- no check so I text him. He says sorry but he can only buy the ASM 121 now. I give him the price for that book plus a raw Hero for Hire he asked about. I wait two days with no response and text again. He says sorry but someone offered him an Iron Man 1-9.0 for a great price so he will have to pass on my books.

 

I texted back that this was not cool as I had held books for two months and now he was just backing out of the deal. I also told him that I hoped his seller had lots of other nice books because I do not do business that way with anyone. For that, I am a jerk. My sense is he likes to play the "flip game" and when the market trends down he looks for ways to bail.

 

As I said already- "Not Cool". Seller beware and also know that I never delete my text messages in cases of revisionist history. I am also not a jerk.

 

Ed Robertson

[joecgcmaniac]

The piece of tape on 2nd book is the crutch he is using to get out of 1 of the books he bought (when he already tired to get out of both of them due to "falling for the hype"). Books where sold as vg/f and the census is both books are at least that. Any other problems he "has" could be resolved if the core reason wasn't just to get out if a book he over paid during hype ,regardless if that will cost the seller (me) a sale I would have had 4xs over had he not committed to buy the books in haste

 

The book was sold for xxx amount the book now goes for a third the price, he knows that and wanted out before even seeing the books, now that hype is low/gone

 

No where have I ever stated a "no return policy" however please tell me what seller accept returns because buyer fell into hype.. (After the hype calms down wants a refund) then goes and tries to find any reason to get out of the deal . I sold him the books as advertise (vg/f ) and the census agree both books are at least that

 

 

I do agree, lesson learned. I will not sell without scans again (even though with scans I feel this buyer would have acted the same way since his original reason to get out of said deal was due to "falling for hype ")

 

That's the story in a nut shell.. Whatever twist this buyer wants to make to give his reasoning support is moot. I think most would agree

 

I have not been on the Boards much lately as I have spent most of June and July with my family. I happened to click on the Graham crackers thread and see a post from the buyer referring to me (not by name) as a jerk. Some of you know me and know that I do not post much and never anything inflammatory, but after reading some of the posts here, I think Branget is spot on with why the buyer was looking to back out.

 

He committed to buying in early June my ASM 300-9.8 and 121-9.0. I waited around ten days but no check so I texted him that I would be in Ohio for two weeks and would mail the books once I got back assuming the check would come while I was gone.

 

I return in early July- no check so I text him. He says sorry but he can only buy the ASM 121 now. I give him the price for that book plus a raw Hero for Hire he asked about. I wait two days with no response and text again. He says sorry but someone offered him an Iron Man 1-9.0 for a great price so he will have to pass on my books.

 

I texted back that this was not cool as I had held books for two months and now he was just backing out of the deal. I also told him that I hoped his seller had lots of other nice books because I do not do business that way with anyone. For that, I am a jerk. My sense is he likes to play the "flip game" and when the market trends down he looks for ways to bail.

 

As I said already- "Not Cool". Seller beware and also know that I never delete my text messages in cases of revisionist history. I am also not a jerk.

 

Ed Robertson

 

 

So he likes negotiating and buying books through PMs, that way there is no visible "paper trail" when issues arise.

 

[robocard]

The piece of tape on 2nd book is the crutch he is using to get out of 1 of the books he bought (when he already tired to get out of both of them due to "falling for the hype"). Books where sold as vg/f and the census is both books are at least that. Any other problems he "has" could be resolved if the core reason wasn't just to get out if a book he over paid during hype ,regardless if that will cost the seller (me) a sale I would have had 4xs over had he not committed to buy the books in haste

 

The book was sold for xxx amount the book now goes for a third the price, he knows that and wanted out before even seeing the books, now that hype is low/gone

 

No where have I ever stated a "no return policy" however please tell me what seller accept returns because buyer fell into hype.. (After the hype calms down wants a refund) then goes and tries to find any reason to get out of the deal . I sold him the books as advertise (vg/f ) and the census agree both books are at least that

 

 

I do agree, lesson learned. I will not sell without scans again (even though with scans I feel this buyer would have acted the same way since his original reason to get out of said deal was due to "falling for hype ")

 

That's the story in a nut shell.. Whatever twist this buyer wants to make to give his reasoning support is moot. I think most would agree

 

I have not been on the Boards much lately as I have spent most of June and July with my family. I happened to click on the Graham crackers thread and see a post from the buyer referring to me (not by name) as a jerk. Some of you know me and know that I do not post much and never anything inflammatory, but after reading some of the posts here, I think Branget is spot on with why the buyer was looking to back out.

 

He committed to buying in early June my ASM 300-9.8 and 121-9.0. I waited around ten days but no check so I texted him that I would be in Ohio for two weeks and would mail the books once I got back assuming the check would come while I was gone.

 

I return in early July- no check so I text him. He says sorry but he can only buy the ASM 121 now. I give him the price for that book plus a raw Hero for Hire he asked about. I wait two days with no response and text again. He says sorry but someone offered him an Iron Man 1-9.0 for a great price so he will have to pass on my books.

 

I texted back that this was not cool as I had held books for two months and now he was just backing out of the deal. I also told him that I hoped his seller had lots of other nice books because I do not do business that way with anyone. For that, I am a jerk. My sense is he likes to play the "flip game" and when the market trends down he looks for ways to bail.

 

As I said already- "Not Cool". Seller beware and also know that I never delete my text messages in cases of revisionist history. I am also not a jerk.

 

Ed Robertson

 

 

So he likes negotiating and buying books through PMs, that way there is no visible "paper trail" when issues arise.

 

 

There is a "text trail" for mine.

[Cascaders27]