PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[Speedy-D]

 

It seems to me that all these calls for HOS status waters down the status of those on the HOS list.

 

 

Because the PL has become a water downed semi-joke it increases the pressure for inclusion in the HOS. Fix the PL and give it some power then the HOS discussions will subside. Too many petty PL additions.

I know you have it in for the PL, but...The PL is fine. I check it every time I have a sales thread, it takes about 15 seconds. It could be 10 times as long and still take 15 seconds to check.

 

I also see no problem with the HoS. As far as I'm concerned, it's there for people who are incorrigible and not to be trusted; who disrupt the sales flow time and again and act as weasily as they can to get out of the hot water they constantly find themselves in. HusTruck fits the bill in my eyes.

[jaybuck43]

Wait Jeff I'm confused. I thought your argument before was that the HoS had become too watered down? Now it's the PL too?

[EC ed]

I also see no problem with the HoS. As far as I'm concerned, it's there for people who are incorrigible and not to be trusted; who disrupt the sales flow time and again and act as weasily as they can to get out of the hot water they constantly find themselves in. HusTruck fits the bill in my eyes.

 

This relates directly to mine and Sharon's discussion above. If we want to preserve the historical meaning of the HoS as exclusively housing the super-villians, then putting the merely untrustworthy on there waters it down. If we want to "re-calibrate" the HoS to include all incorrigibles, which would include both super-villians and lesser villians, then we need to decide that...noting that it would reflect an intentional shift in the scope of the HoS.

 

As I mentioned, an alternative would be to put the incorrigibles somewhere else, like the PL based on community vote.

 

Doing neither approach seems to leave us with some sort of self-imposed inabililty to adequately address the lesser villians.

Edited January 6, 2015 by edowens71

[Jeffro.]

My only issue with the PL list really isn't an issue with the list but it's an issue with an individual. The issue is those who go on and then off and then on and then off etc. There are a few problem children who for whatever reason just can't seem to get their mess together consistently. They screw up, then they fix. They screw up, then they fix.

 

My solution is to put those people on ignore. That way I don't have to worry about how many times they've been on and off the list. They are now on my own personal "do not deal with" list.

 

I'm all for redemption and second chances. What I'm not for is 3rd, 4th, and 5th, etc chances. Get your freakin' act together or don't buy and sell here.

[EC ed]

Doing neither approach seems to leave us with some sort of self-imposed inabililty to adequately address the lesser villians.

 

Using another legal analogy...what we currently have is something akin to only being able to charge a lawbreaker with a felony or nothing at all...i.e, we are structurally not giving ourselves a misdemeanor option. Thus, if the lawbreaker's offense doesn't rise to the level of a felony, we do nothing, rather than pursue the misdemeanor charge. We need to give ourselves the misdemeanor option.

[Junkdrawer]

Must we wait till someone gets screwed big time first?

[jsilverjanet]

My only issue with the PL list really isn't an issue with the list but it's an issue with an individual. The issue is those who go on and then off and then on and then off etc. There are a few problem children who for whatever reason just can't seem to get their mess together consistently. They screw up, then they fix. They screw up, then they fix.

 

My solution is to put those people on ignore. That way I don't have to worry about how many times they've been on and off the list. They are now on my own personal "do not deal with" list.

 

I'm all for redemption and second chances. What I'm not for is 3rd, 4th, and 5th, etc chances. Get your freakin' act together or don't buy and sell here.

 

based on what Skypinkblu said, people who have been on the PL lists 3 times should be on HOS. Haven't we had a few that escaped that?

 

 

[EC ed]

based on what Skypinkblu said, people who have been on the PL lists 3 times should be on HOS. Haven't we had a few that escaped that?

 

It's not clear in the rules...rule just says "multiple offenders." That's why I suggested that if we keep things as they are, we at least need to clarify that point...hard code the "3 times" right there in the rules, so there's no slippage because of misunderstanding/ambiguity.

 

Of course, escapes are also possible because PL history (entrances and exits) is not systematically tracked...so, it's hard to know when the "multiple" happens. I tried to organize that information here once, and it didn't go over well (some of you might remember that hell-raising).

Edited January 6, 2015 by edowens71

[skypinkblu]

So, what do you think about something like this: Save the HOS for the super-villians as has always been the case (and we should clarify in the rules what a "multiple offender" is...for example, "3 times on the PL"...at least then it will not be ambiguous), and revise the Probation List rules to add a path to the PL via community vote (keeping the current PL path via individual nomination in place, of course)?

 

So, two ways to get on the PL:

 

1) Individual, transaction-based path, as currently implemented. If put on the PL via this route, to get off you have to satisfy the individual, just as it is done now.

 

2) Community-vote path, for someone who is not an all-timer, but needs to be censured. Would require majority vote (or something like that). If put on the PL via this path, how do you get off? Well, I could think of a few alternatives, but all would require a community vote to take you back off (perhaps after some minimum waiting period). One example: If/when the person thinks they are sufficiently rehabilitated, they can petition the community for a removal vote, and explain why they feel rehabilitated. Then, we vote. Think of it like a parole hearing.

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm doing 4 things at once and I need to leave in a few.

 

I seem to remember recently there was a discussion about putting things to a vote in CG so we can have a broader spectrum of votes? What happened to that?

 

My one problem with your suggestion other than needing a broader voting base is...if there is no specific egregious act, how do we prevent this from becoming a personality issue?

 

I have one person on ignore. I've often wished he'd find true love or win the lottery or something and wander off to another forum and never return. Personally I would never vote for him to be on the probation list or any other list, but I bet there are ton of people who would, solely based on personality.

 

We get new loud people here all the time, people who know everything, have the greatest this or that, people who can buy and sell everyone...they just don't belong on a probation list.

 

The people who need to, usually get banned eventually. It seems like it takes FOREVER sometimes, but that's Arch's call.

[EC ed]

My one problem with your suggestion other than needing a broader voting base is...if there is no specific egregious act, how do we prevent this from becoming a personality issue?

There would need to be egregious acts behind any nomination, they just wouldn't have to rise to super-villian status (i.e., misdemeanor-level acts, rather than felonies). HusTruck is a good example of that. No one is suggesting that he be added to any list because of his personality (annoying, though it is)...it's because of his specific acts (nicely outlined in Jaybuck's post a couple days ago). I think a majority of us can remain objective enough to "enforce" this.

 

Edited January 6, 2015 by edowens71

[chrisco37]

I don't follow the PD thread religiously like some of you, but I've read enough re: Hustruck to know that he's nobody I would ever do business with.

 

Just put him on the HOS. That's where he belongs. He's had multiple issues (from what I can recall) regarding transactions here on the boards.

 

I didn't read all 300+ posts (since my last visit here), so I don't know if the Hulk 181 situation got resolved (I'm guessing no). But, even if it did, the guy belongs on the HOS.

 

I've been here nearly 13 years, have done multiple transactions (from selling dollar books all the way up to buying mega keys) and have never had one issue. Every time I read this thread, he's involved in some problem.

[thunsicker]

In the three years I've been here it seems that people get added to the HoS for one of three reasons. Outright scammers (Alleybat, thehouseofcomics.com, smashdash). Repeat offenders (solarcadet1) and one or two time offenders who then publicly melted down when caught (Red Rocks, BLBComics). It seems like HusTruck is of the "repeat offenders" type.

[Red_Hood]

Hustruck needs to be cut down at the knees. Judging by his actions and repeat offenses. He's a sociopath that requires time to focus on his mental state and not on selling comic books.

It's examples like this guy that make me sound like a parrot and say these sales forums have more clowns per capita then anywhere else on the internet.

The probation list or Hall of Shame needs more action and less talk with a loser like this guy.

[slym2none]

So, do we really need a cogent & well-written recap of all of HusTruck's offenses here, with links included, before starting a poll? IOW, is that a requirement?

 

If not, I'll make the dang poll...

 

 

 

-slym

[HarveySwick]

You need a write-up for future reference.

[slym2none]

Oh.

 

 

 

 

-slym

[EC ed]

jaybuck43 did this a couple days ago...seems like a good head start:

 

His name has been from basically the day he got here. He came in and accused a store owner of "raping" him. In his first set of posts

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7213628&fpart=1

 

Then there was this hilarious post:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7177909#Post7177909

 

That of course was before he got caught shilling, o excuse me, he was the tragic victim of someone messing with him because he told people about that "evil" store owner

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7357919#Post7357919

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7366098#Post7366098

 

Then of course we had to invent the term "hustrucked" for the fact that he would regularly lowball offers, including joking about doing it in a charity thread .

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7272748#Post7272748

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7301754#Post7301754

 

Then there is the fact that he "had a paypal issue" last month with all of his payments bouncing to 3 very well known and well respected members of the boards.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8189568#Post8189568

 

Finally there is the Hulk 181 mess. Which just sold the other day. That just kinda sums up his mess. I don't think he belongs on the HoS, he's just scum and should be treated as such. Maybe we can make the pariah list?

 

[HarveySwick]

(thumbs u

 

Just clean it up a bit and you can use that as a great source of info. Make sure to include specifics about the Hulk #181 issue including the fact that he stole pictures of a cracked case from another thread on the Boards to purposefully commit a fraud to get out of a deal for a book he never owned to begin with.

 

He also had multiple eBay accounts.

 

He got thrown out of school for threatening someone with a knife.

 

Not to mention is homophobic statements made on his eBay profile if you don't read this, you're a homosexual.

 

[HarveySwick]

I'll just work on it now.

[slym2none]

jaybuck43 did this a couple days ago...seems like a good head start:

 

His name has been from basically the day he got here. He came in and accused a store owner of "raping" him. In his first set of posts

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7213628&fpart=1

 

Then there was this hilarious post:

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7177909#Post7177909

 

That of course was before he got caught shilling, o excuse me, he was the tragic victim of someone messing with him because he told people about that "evil" store owner

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7357919#Post7357919

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7366098#Post7366098

 

Then of course we had to invent the term "hustrucked" for the fact that he would regularly lowball offers, including joking about doing it in a charity thread .

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7272748#Post7272748

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=7301754#Post7301754

 

Then there is the fact that he "had a paypal issue" last month with all of his payments bouncing to 3 very well known and well respected members of the boards.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=8189568#Post8189568

 

Finally there is the Hulk 181 mess. Which just sold the other day. That just kinda sums up his mess. I don't think he belongs on the HoS, he's just scum and should be treated as such. Maybe we can make the pariah list?

 

 

Add these:

 

My name is HarveySwick and I was Hustrucked. HusTruck "PM sent"ed me with a lowball offer for some Infinity Gauntlets. I rejected the offer and he found the eBay listings from when I purchased the books months earlier and insisted I sell them to him for that price. When I removed myself from the PM thread and the books sold, he repeatedly PMed me demanding that I reveal to him the prices the books were sold for.

 

here's a great hustrucked story ... a guy on IG put up a post "for sale nm98, nm89, GSX1, asm300 need money to pay for a surgery for my dog" hustruck low balled him for all the books... the guy said no... hustruck then went on his feed and hit "claimed" so everyone else backed off... he then. (hustruck this is) put up a post about how this guys a scam, I hope his dog dies, no one deal with him. I reached out to the guy as there's always 2 sides to a story... the guy said hustruck was trying to low ball him and he told him repeatedly NO... I then bought all his books in at a great price and hustruck bombed me with messages DEMANDING I sell them for what I paid ??? he's legit nutzo (you can see the dialog in my "shame" post on IG ... was very funny but just thought the story was so much like Harvey I had to post it

 

...and a link (links?) to the Hulk 181 fiasco (IDK where all that is) and I think we've got it?

 

 

 

-slym