PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[HarveySwick]

To me, as its written, it sounds like you had a deal. He agreed that it would be cost minus 20 dollars. While you suggested it would run somewhere around 50-60 total, that was not a term of the deal. It was whatever cost was. Definitely a broken deal unless we hear otherwise from xela's side of things (though you may wish to post PMs to show the transaction so we can see exact language used throughout)

 

Jay's post was the FIRST post after bcc's nomination asking for PMs.

[comix4fun]

I've repeatedly said "I need to see the PMs and what was actually said."

 

It's bcc' nomination. He should be able to easily quote, copy and paste what he had written here without too much effort.

 

If the seller said shipping COULD be $40 - $60, that's different than shipping WILL be $40 - $60.

 

The buyer has already explained that with his previous dealings, shipping was around $25. Did the seller make it clear that the cost WILL be or that it COULD be. This is a difference to me in the intent of the parties.

 

Maybe the buyer just read it as it COULD be $40 - $60 (but really will be $25 and he believed the seller was just guessing the cost).

 

For everyone arguing that the buyer agreed to the "$40 - $60" shipping cost, why did he say "pass" when quoted with an exact number and why did he publicly post that he assumed it would really be $25 as is what he had spent in past dealings.

 

I need to see what was expressed to the buyer. Some people aren't rocket scientists. Maybe he mistakenly read the seller's estimate as just a guess and thought he knew what the real shipping cost is based on experience.

 

I think IF the seller said: "shipping WILL be between $40 - $60" and the buyer said "I agree with the cost of $40 - $60" then there might be an issue.

 

Go back and read bcc's nomination. He says specifically shipping COULD be. People are changing what was said.

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong and everyone will just at me. I'm fine with that. Throw Xela on the PL. Heck, through both of them in the HOS. I don't know either of them and don't have a horse in this race. I was just explaining that this is clearly a misunderstanding or a miscommunication and don't think it's a PL issue. Unless someone can prove that Xela KNEW that the cost would be "40 - $60" and agreed to that other than bcc saying here "could be $40 - $60."

 

All of this is just my

 

 

If you agree to buy a house, car, deck, porch, plumbing job, etc etc etc....and someone tells you "Cost for materials is $X and cost for shipping/delivery could be an additional $Y to $Z" and you agree and say it's a deal, you're going to have a whale of a time getting out of the deal because the shipping, disclosed as being potentially $Z, wound up being actually $Z.

 

Acceptance of a potential range of costs is binding when both accurate and timely.

[thirdgreenham]

Shipping "could be" $50-60, but I'll pay $20 of that.

 

Okay, I'll take it.

 

Shipping is $63, or $53, or $31. Your cost is either $43, $33, or $11. Your choice.

 

I'll pass. That's EXTORTIONATE!

 

Oh, and I'm an arse and a noob, and you've hurt my feelings! Laugh out loud!

[comix4fun]

I've repeatedly said "I need to see the PMs and what was actually said."

 

It's bcc' nomination. He should be able to easily quote, copy and paste what he had written here without too much effort.

 

If the seller said shipping COULD be $40 - $60, that's different than shipping WILL be $40 - $60.

 

The buyer has already explained that with his previous dealings, shipping was around $25. Did the seller make it clear that the cost WILL be or that it COULD be. This is a difference to me in the intent of the parties.

 

Maybe the buyer just read it as it COULD be $40 - $60 (but really will be $25 and he believed the seller was just guessing the cost).

 

For everyone arguing that the buyer agreed to the "$40 - $60" shipping cost, why did he say "pass" when quoted with an exact number and why did he publicly post that he assumed it would really be $25 as is what he had spent in past dealings.

 

I need to see what was expressed to the buyer. Some people aren't rocket scientists. Maybe he mistakenly read the seller's estimate as just a guess and thought he knew what the real shipping cost is based on experience.

 

I think IF the seller said: "shipping WILL be between $40 - $60" and the buyer said "I agree with the cost of $40 - $60" then there might be an issue.

 

Go back and read bcc's nomination. He says specifically shipping COULD be. People are changing what was said.

 

Maybe I'm completely wrong and everyone will just at me. I'm fine with that. Throw Xela on the PL. Heck, through both of them in the HOS. I don't know either of them and don't have a horse in this race. I was just explaining that this is clearly a misunderstanding or a miscommunication and don't think it's a PL issue. Unless someone can prove that Xela KNEW that the cost would be "40 - $60" and agreed to that other than bcc saying here "could be $40 - $60."

 

All of this is just my

 

 

 

Furthermore, if the buyer believes that the quoted potential shipping cost is a deal breaker then why not 1) mention that fact during negotiations or 2) hold off on saying "It's a deal" until that "deal breaking" amount of shipping is confirmed.

 

 

 

[N/A]

Shipping "could be" $50-60, but I'll pay $20 of that.

 

Okay, I'll take it.

 

Shipping is $63, or $53, or $31. Your cost is either $43, $33, or $11. Your choice.

 

I'll pass. That's EXTORTIONATE!

 

Oh, and I'm an arse and a noob, and you've hurt my feelings! Laugh out loud!

 

Noob.

[thirdgreenham]

Shipping "could be" $50-60, but I'll pay $20 of that.

 

Okay, I'll take it.

 

Shipping is $63, or $53, or $31. Your cost is either $43, $33, or $11. Your choice.

 

I'll pass. That's EXTORTIONATE!

 

Oh, and I'm an arse and a noob, and you've hurt my feelings! Laugh out loud!

 

Noob.

 

[N/A]

[HarveySwick]

I wouldn't be the one in this situation.

 

I'm not saying it's a done deal one way or another. I'm saying what has been presented so far is not enough.

 

In your scenario, if I was deciding for one party or the other, what would I ask for first....

 

The documents!

 

In this instance, the "documents" or the evidence are the PMs and what was conveyed. The buyer threw out an offer of $450 shipped. The seller responded with $450 + shipping with a $20 credit.

 

Did the buyer have any reason to believe that shipping MIGHT be cheaper than $50 - $60? Did he convey this to the seller?

 

Adding a $63 shipping cost to $450 worth of books may be a big deal for someone who was at the top of their budget at $450. I need to see how the "$50 - $60" was stated to the buyer. If it was a definite cost and the buyer said maybe he has a case. He hasn't presented that evidence though. All he's said so far is that he told the buyer it COULD be - meaning it could also be less.

 

The buyer already came in and explained that in his past dealings it was less and he doesn't understand why it was so much. Why doesn't the seller just post what was stated to the buyer and then an actual analysis can be conducted rather than just paraphrasing what was stated?

 

Minus proof, why should I take either side's word? Just post the PMs. without that it's not enough.

[comix4fun]

I was just going by what's been posted and not refuted by the buyer.....

 

 

Having never done this before, is this the thread where I post comments about a board person who agreed to purchase two books, agreed to the price, then said later I'll pass, read all my PMs after, then removed himself from the discussion?

I have all the PMs etc but not sure what to post or where or how to do hyperlinks?

 

Thanks for advice.

 

i'm not sure posting PMs immediately is the way to go. lay out the facts and go from there.

 

All right, here are the facts:

 

Xela posted a WTB ad for a SSS 6, I sent a PM with pics of a CGC copy and a raw copy, $350 & $125 respectively. He asked if I would take $450 shipped to the UK. I replied I would do $450 but wouldn't pay postage to the UK as it could be $50-$60. I'd pay the 1st $20 and he would have to pay the rest.

He replied that's OK and he would take them and sent his address.

I replied back that after packing the books and checking on usps.com that shipping was $63 for Priority Express International insured for $400; so his total would be $493

He replied back that he wasn't sure how it came to $63 since another boardie had just sent him a slab and several raw books for $25.

I sent him package dimensions and weight and said to check usps.com and LMK if I made a mistake and that I'd check again when I got home.

I checked again and sent him the 3 quotes from usps: Priority Express Int w/insurance for $63; Priority Int w/certificate of mailing for $53; and 1st class w/certificate of mailing for $31. I said I can't be responsible for the latter 2 as they can only be insured for up to $70. It was his choice on shipping.

 

He then replied that he would pass. No other explaination.

 

I replied that he had already said he would take them AFTER I had said the postage would probably be in the $50-$60 range.

 

He read that PM with no reply. I sent another PM asking if he always backed out of deals and wanted a response. He read it and removed himself from the topic.

 

I realize it has not been 30 days but his actions have demonstrated he won't complete a transaction he agreed to.

 

I'm also sending him a separate PM letting him know I've posted on here.

Let me know if I've left anything out.

[HarveySwick]

Shipping "could be" $50-60, but I'll pay $20 of that.

 

Okay, I'll take it.

 

Shipping is $63, or $53, or $31. Your cost is either $43, $33, or $11. Your choice.

 

I'll pass. That's EXTORTIONATE!

 

Oh, and I'm an arse and a noob, and you've hurt my feelings! Laugh out loud!

 

Is any of this what was actually said or is that what e nominator is saying what was said?

 

Why not just request what was actually conveyed in the offer and what the reply was?

 

Do we just not require any sort of proof anymore? The buyer came here and explained in his last dealings, his shipping costs were lower. Heck, Sharon was a previous seller to the guy and explained that her costs were lower because she had private insurance.

 

Maybe the guy didn't know any of this? The PMs would shed a light on a lot of questions.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Minus proof, why should I take either side's word? Just post the PMs. without that it's not enough.

 

Because the buyer did not contradict the sellers summary.

[InvstmntComcSuply]

Do we just not require any sort of proof anymore? The buyer came here and explained in his last dealings, his shipping costs were lower. Heck, Sharon was a previous seller to the guy and explained that her costs were lower because she had private insurance.

 

Maybe the guy didn't know any of this? The PMs would shed a light on a lot of questions.

 

What proof do you need if there is no denial?

 

Why should the buyer's bad assumptions protect him from his acceptance?

[HarveySwick]

Then throw him on the list. I don't care either way.

 

It just seemed like a misunderstanding and the parties hadn't actually agreed on the cost.

 

All I know for sure right now is that as soon as the seller gave the EXACT shipping cost the buyer said "pass." What other reason would there be other than he didn't think shipping would be that much based on his past dealings?

 

And did the seller say shipping WILL be or that shipping COULD be?

 

I'm off to dinner. Clam chowder, fried clams and maybe ice cream later.

 

If one or both or neither are on the Probation List when I get back

[N/A]

Can I put you on the list while you're gone?

[HarveySwick]

[comix4fun]

Then throw him on the list. I don't care either way.

 

It just seemed like a misunderstanding and the parties hadn't actually agreed on the cost.

 

All I know for sure right now is that as soon as the seller gave the EXACT shipping cost the buyer said "pass." What other reason would there be other than he didn't think shipping would be that much based on his past dealings?

 

And did the seller say shipping WILL be or that shipping COULD be?

 

I'm off to dinner. Clam chowder, fried clams and maybe ice cream later.

 

If one or both or neither are on the Probation List when I get back

 

 

I think you're too hung up on "Will" or "Could". When the numbers are disclosed, as the range within which the parameters of the deal will be set and both parties agree to those parameters, they cannot then refuse the deal when the final cost falls within the disclosed amount.

 

From what's been posted...the "Could" was simply a possible range of costs, which the final cost fell within, which the buyer accepted as an acceptable range.

 

If there was a problem, or shock, or dismay, or disagreement, or something so offensive as to cause a refusal to perform you would expect that to be stated when the deal wasn't yet set and not after acceptance.

[bcc]

Then throw him on the list. I don't care either way.

 

It just seemed like a misunderstanding and the parties hadn't actually agreed on the cost.

 

All I know for sure right now is that as soon as the seller gave the EXACT shipping cost the buyer said "pass." What other reason would there be other than he didn't think shipping would be that much based on his past dealings?

 

And did the seller say shipping WILL be or that shipping COULD be?

 

I'm off to dinner. Clam chowder, fried clams and maybe ice cream later.

 

If one or both or neither are on the Probation List when I get back

 

It makes NO difference whether I said WILL be or COULD be; an after that is binding not conditionary. If you can't see that then posting PMs makes no difference. All it does is make me question what you think is binding and wonder whether I should do business with you in the future.

 

Having said that, if someone can explain how to post all of the PMs other that a lot of cut and paste, I'll do that when I return in a couple of hours.

 

 

 

[N/A]

I thought you wouldn't sell him the book now anyway?

[crassus]

Minus proof, why should I take either side's word? Just post the PMs. without that it's not enough.

 

Because the buyer did not contradict the sellers summary.

 

I agree completely. Since the buyer has come here and posted it can be assumed that had they anything material to contradict we would have heard it by now.

 

 

[rodan57]

The buyer and seller set a price on the book but the deal faltered on a shipping cost.

 

Set all the terms before declaring it a deal.

 

This would mean a set price on the shipping.

 

Though there is hyperbole in the following analogy, one wouldn't declare a done deal on the book costing "between $100 and $120 and I'll get back to you on a final price." You'd want a set price.