PROBATION DISCUSSIONS 21 21

[oakman29]

There's plenty of evidence here. Also, I remember the FS thread from the beginning. The seller never mentioned the PGX slab.

(thumbs u Exactly. I'm not sure why the seller thinks the PM exchange he keeps posting vindicates him? Folks in the thread asked directly if the book was in a PGX slab, and the seller denied it... now it turns out the book was indeed a PGX, so it would seem the seller was knowingly lying about it. In the grand scheme of things, maybe not the end of the world, but not a fellow I'd be in a hurry to do business with either.

 

 

Guys, the seller is operating on a different psychological and mental level than most others in this thread. Can't you see that by his reaction since this all started?

Did he knowingly sell a PGX slab,is he an adult?

He reacts the wrong way in any situation he is backed into a corner in by doing the opposite of what he should be doing: he digs in deeper.

Then why did he put himself in that position?

He also responds to polite communication very well.

 

He explained himself as thinking it was "OK" because others had done it on here in the past.

 

He's gotten his slap on the wrist, I'm damn sure

 

a) he's never going to make up a story about his disabled brother in a comic shop ever again

b) he's never going to sell a PGX book ever again.

 

I'd put money on it.

 

If you guys want to nominate someone to the Probation thread for selling PGX books then you should also be ready to nominate people who buy PGX books on here.

 

Otherwise, it's just a double standard.

 

[skypinkblu]

This is BS, Roy!

 

 

Fair enough. Every one sees things differently.

 

It's what makes the world go round.

 

 

Maybe if you took the rose colored (coloured) glasses off, Roy...you'd see the problem here...

[comicdonna]

This is BS, Roy!

 

 

Fair enough. Every one sees things differently.

 

It's what makes the world go round.

 

With all do respect, you and Trey are the only ones that are seeing things differently. I am sure he appreciates your efforts though. I am not trying to be mean but, that's how I see it.

[JazzMan]

This is BS, Roy!

 

 

Fair enough. Every one sees things differently.

 

It's what makes the world go round.

 

With all do respect, you and Trey are the only ones that are seeing things differently. I am sure he appreciates your efforts though. I am not trying to be mean but, that's how I see it.

 

Is Roy a shill for Trey?

 

[Pitboss]

[thehumantorch]

There's plenty of evidence here. Also, I remember the FS thread from the beginning. The seller never mentioned the PGX slab.

(thumbs u Exactly. I'm not sure why the seller thinks the PM exchange he keeps posting vindicates him? Folks in the thread asked directly if the book was in a PGX slab, and the seller denied it... now it turns out the book was indeed a PGX, so it would seem the seller was knowingly lying about it. In the grand scheme of things, maybe not the end of the world, but not a fellow I'd be in a hurry to do business with either.

 

 

Guys, the seller is operating on a different psychological and mental level than most others in this thread. Can't you see that by his reaction since this all started?

 

He reacts the wrong way in any situation he is backed into a corner in by doing the opposite of what he should be doing: he digs in deeper.

 

He also responds to polite communication very well.

 

He explained himself as thinking it was "OK" because others had done it on here in the past.

 

He's gotten his slap on the wrist, I'm damn sure

 

a) he's never going to make up a story about his disabled brother in a comic shop ever again

b) he's never going to sell a PGX book ever again.

 

I'd put money on it.

 

If you guys want to nominate someone to the Probation thread for selling PGX books then you should also be ready to nominate people who buy PGX books on here.

 

Otherwise, it's just a double standard.

 

 

Fine, Trey learns from his mistakes. He learns not to pull the same stunt but

he hasn't learned to conduct his business in a honest and ethical manner.

You're defending Trey despite his deliberate and repeated attempts to lie and

deceive buyers.

 

I wouldn't have a problem placing anyone who buys PGX books here on the

probation list but you would have to prove the buyer knew it was a PGX slab.

[VintageComics]

This is BS, Roy!

 

 

Fair enough. Every one sees things differently.

 

It's what makes the world go round.

 

With all do respect, you and Trey are the only ones that are seeing things differently. I am sure he appreciates your efforts though. I am not trying to be mean but, that's how I see it.

 

No problem.

 

Understand that I am not saying Trey is innocent, just that I understand why he thought it was ok, that I would have handled the situation differently and that the law cuts both ways.

 

Just like a double edged saw blade.

 

[Flaming_Telepath]

There's plenty of evidence here. Also, I remember the FS thread from the beginning. The seller never mentioned the PGX slab.

(thumbs u Exactly. I'm not sure why the seller thinks the PM exchange he keeps posting vindicates him? Folks in the thread asked directly if the book was in a PGX slab, and the seller denied it... now it turns out the book was indeed a PGX, so it would seem the seller was knowingly lying about it. In the grand scheme of things, maybe not the end of the world, but not a fellow I'd be in a hurry to do business with either.

 

 

Guys, the seller is operating on a different psychological and mental level than most others in this thread. Can't you see that by his reaction since this all started?

 

He reacts the wrong way in any situation he is backed into a corner in by doing the opposite of what he should be doing: he digs in deeper.

 

He also responds to polite communication very well.

 

He explained himself as thinking it was "OK" because others had done it on here in the past.

 

He's gotten his slap on the wrist, I'm damn sure

 

a) he's never going to make up a story about his disabled brother in a comic shop ever again

b) he's never going to sell a PGX book ever again.

 

I'd put money on it.

 

If you guys want to nominate someone to the Probation thread for selling PGX books then you should also be ready to nominate people who buy PGX books on here.

 

Otherwise, it's just a double standard.

 

 

Fine.

 

So there's two things he's not going to do anymore.

 

But what about the four zillion things that are left to him?

 

Are we going to have to live with him through each of those?

 

I don't want to have to teach grown men what is right and what is wrong.

 

I save that energy for the under 5s.

[VintageComics]

Fine, Trey learns from his mistakes. He learns not to pull the same stunt but

he hasn't learned to conduct his business in a honest and ethical manner.

You're defending Trey despite his deliberate and repeated attempts to lie and

deceive buyers.

 

I agree completely that he might do something deliberate and unethical again as far as forum guidlines go but would you agree that his motivation is not to scam people? ie. take steal their money?

 

It's the difference between defrauding someone on a large scale like alleybat where he took people's money and ran with it and something as benign as concocting a stupid story when he realized he couldn't get hold of books that he had already sold. Or selling a PGX graded book when he shouldn't have...even though MOST people knew it was a PGX book.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think that if someone was unhappy with what they bought that he wouldn't offer a refund.

 

I wouldn't have a problem placing anyone who buys PGX books here on the

probation list but you would have to prove the buyer knew it was a PGX slab.

 

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking that buyers of PGX slabs be put on probation. My point is just to show how ridiculous some rules can be because they always have more than one implication.

 

Anyhow guys, I don't mean to argue with anyone but I can't help the way I see things. I just felt the need to say my piece.

 

Do as you wish and I'll support whatever the community agrees on the matter.

 

(thumbs u

[VintageComics]

Fine.

 

So there's two things he's not going to do anymore.

 

But what about the four zillion things that are left to him?

 

Are we going to have to live with him through each of those?

 

I don't want to have to teach grown men what is right and what is wrong.

 

I save that energy for the under 5s.

 

And therein lies the challenge.

 

I feel the same way.

 

I'd be willing to talk to him about it and lay it out in simple English...or whoever else wants to.

 

Honestly, I think that's all it would take.

 

The other option I suppose is to banish him entirely.

 

Not sure how I feel about that.

 

 

[Aces]

There's plenty of evidence here. Also, I remember the FS thread from the beginning. The seller never mentioned the PGX slab.

(thumbs u Exactly. I'm not sure why the seller thinks the PM exchange he keeps posting vindicates him? Folks in the thread asked directly if the book was in a PGX slab, and the seller denied it... now it turns out the book was indeed a PGX, so it would seem the seller was knowingly lying about it. In the grand scheme of things, maybe not the end of the world, but not a fellow I'd be in a hurry to do business with either.

 

 

Guys, the seller is operating on a different psychological and mental level than most others in this thread. Can't you see that by his reaction since this all started?

 

He reacts the wrong way in any situation he is backed into a corner in by doing the opposite of what he should be doing: he digs in deeper.

 

He also responds to polite communication very well.

 

He explained himself as thinking it was "OK" because others had done it on here in the past.

 

He's gotten his slap on the wrist, I'm damn sure

 

a) he's never going to make up a story about his disabled brother in a comic shop ever again

b) he's never going to sell a PGX book ever again.

 

I'd put money on it.

 

If you guys want to nominate someone to the Probation thread for selling PGX books then you should also be ready to nominate people who buy PGX books on here.

 

Otherwise, it's just a double standard.

 

 

Fine, Trey learns from his mistakes. He learns not to pull the same stunt but

he hasn't learned to conduct his business in a honest and ethical manner.

You're defending Trey despite his deliberate and repeated attempts to lie and

deceive buyers.

 

I wouldn't have a problem placing anyone who buys PGX books here on the

probation list but you would have to prove the buyer knew it was a PGX slab.

 

Now wait a minute... Have the rules changed in the last two years?

You use to be able to sell other slabs here provided:

1) Don't show the label or post the "other company's" grade. Just scan the comic and mention it's in another companies slab (No typing of the letters PGX).

2) List an asking price and (if you wanted to) your estimate of the comic's grade just like a raw book.

3) Tell people to PM you for more details.

4) And this needs to be done in the context of a larger selling thread with raw/CGC comics with only a sprinkle of the "other slabs".

 

Years ago I sold a couple of CCGs here under those conditions and other's use to too. Did some clown try to abuse the loophole and it was taken away?

[topofthetotem]

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

This sounds like a slam.

 

 

[VintageComics]

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

This sounds like a slam.

 

 

It wasn't meant to.

 

[VintageComics]

Now wait a minute... Have the rules changed in the last two years?

 

The rules were changed a few years ago. Only CGC graded and raw books now. No exceptions.

 

 

[Mac Man]

Fine, Trey learns from his mistakes. He learns not to pull the same stunt but

he hasn't learned to conduct his business in a honest and ethical manner.

You're defending Trey despite his deliberate and repeated attempts to lie and

deceive buyers.

 

I agree completely that he might do something deliberate and unethical again as far as forum guidlines go but would you agree that his motivation is not to scam people? ie. take steal their money?

 

It's the difference between defrauding someone on a large scale like alleybat where he took people's money and ran with it and something as benign as concocting a stupid story when he realized he couldn't get hold of books that he had already sold. Or selling a PGX graded book when he shouldn't have...even though MOST people knew it was a PGX book.

 

I could be wrong but I don't think that if someone was unhappy with what they bought that he wouldn't offer a refund.

 

I wouldn't have a problem placing anyone who buys PGX books here on the

probation list but you would have to prove the buyer knew it was a PGX slab.

 

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not asking that buyers of PGX slabs be put on probation. My point is just to show how ridiculous some rules can be because they always have more than one implication.

 

Anyhow guys, I don't mean to argue with anyone but I can't help the way I see things. I just felt the need to say my piece.

 

Do as you wish and I'll support whatever the community agrees on the matter.

 

(thumbs u

 

I don't really have a horse in the race (like most of us), but I do try to think of myself as a pretty level-headed guy 4.5 days of the week. But Roy, I have to disagree with you here.

 

First the scale of the scam doesn't negate the principle that was violated. Trey didn't follow the rules, and despite direct questioning, he mislead a buyer. Bad form to say the least. It just seems that there's a sense of trying to be a "good guy" only after the scam came to light and brought before the larger community.

 

Second, even if Trey is operating under some sort of mental / emotional difficulty, that doesn't mean that there aren't still consequences for socially unacceptable behavior. To make repeated exceptions would be condescending. My wife works with special needs children and young adults, and I can tell you the goal is for people of all backgrounds to operate under the same social "codes." Perhaps, if it is too difficult for him to follow guidelines, then it would be best to not participate as a seller on these boards.

 

I do appreciate your trying to keep an even keel here, as no one wants to see any sort of mob mentality arise (right?-). But I think with what we've seen here... there isn't much standing behind this sort of behavior. Attempting to sell items with deception of the buyer in mind is not something we should accept here.

 

[VintageComics]

Attempting to sell items with deception of the buyer in mind is not something we should accept here.

 

 

I'll drink to that.

 

(thumbs u

[mschmidt]

This is BS, Roy!

 

 

Fair enough. Every one sees things differently.

 

It's what makes the world go round.

 

With all do respect, you and Trey are the only ones that are seeing things differently. I am sure he appreciates your efforts though. I am not trying to be mean but, that's how I see it.

 

No problem.

 

Understand that I am not saying Trey is innocent, just that I understand why he thought it was ok, that I would have handled the situation differently and that the law cuts both ways.

 

Just like a double edged saw blade.

 

Trey knew it was against the rules to sell PGX books here, so he tried to scam people by cropping the scan, hiding the label & claiming it wasn't a PGX book.

 

Roy, at what point does the offenses become so egregious that you don't immediately jump to someones defense? I realize you don't like seeing a boardie pile-up, that you always have a soft spot for the underdog, but in this particular matter, you're stretching yourself so far to downplay the seriousness of the situation that it's almost insulting to those of us watching from the sidelines.

 

If Trey "operat[es] on a different psychological and mental level" than the rest of us, that's his problem, not ours - and it certainly doesn't mean that he deserves special treatment for behaviour that under any other circumstance would result in a righteous tarring & feathering.

[topofthetotem]

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

This sounds like a slam.

 

 

It wasn't meant to.

 

Oh sorry, I didn't realize it was a random comment that just happened to line up precisely with the circumstances of this particular deal. My bad.

[VintageComics]

You mean like if they opened it and kept it after realizing it was a PGX slab?

 

This sounds like a slam.

 

 

It wasn't meant to.

 

Oh sorry, I didn't realize it was a random comment that just happened to line up precisely with the circumstances of this particular deal. My bad.

 

It was factual and directly related to the discussion at hand.

 

Joey and I have just discussed the entire incident via PM and everything is cool...between me and him, anyway.

 

[VintageComics]

Roy, at what point does the offenses become so egregious that you don't immediately jump to someones defense? I realize you don't like seeing a boardie pile-up, that you always have a soft spot for the underdog, but in this particular matter, you're stretching yourself so far to downplay the seriousness of the situation that it's almost insulting to those of us watching from the sidelines.

 

I'll just say that I am not the only board member (in good standing) that sees it "my" way.

 

There do need to be consequences for actions though. I'll let Trey and Joey work it out.