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Flipping, a mortal sin?

Started by nwpassage,

207 posts in this topic

FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

I've seen people turn around & re-sell a book before they even received it - that, I must admit, seems a bit weird. I do agree with you, though - you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

Now ... if you want to talk about forum selling unseemliness, well, the usual suspects spring to mind:

 

a) quoting & using GPA prices for raw books

b) quoting GPA prices for slabs, but "omitting" certain sales because they were too low compared to what you're pricing the book at

 

a) GPA can be used as a tool for anything. A certified book is no more or less of a book than a raw copy. Certification is simply a method of assuring trust in the product. A certified book would be just as valuable (or worthless) as a raw book if the populous valued a certified book just the same as a raw book.

 

If the seller of a given book is trusted enough, why can GPA prices not be asked? If the seller's grade is accepted by potential buyers, it is no different than potential buyers accepting CGCs grade.

 

rantrant

 

 

GPA IS A PRICE SURVEY OF SLABBED BOOKS. IT DOES NOT COVER RAW BOOKS

 

GPA PRICING IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS. GPA PRICING IS NOT FOR RAW BOOKS

 

Do I have to keep shouting?

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

me. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you are using GPA as a comparative price for your RAW BOOK you aren't using the same data set.

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

rantrant

 

Are "slabbed books" not books? Books are books. As I said before, certification is only for establishing a currency of trust. If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

I can't believe I'm even typing this. If that's the truth, all those books you just bought in North Carolina don't need to be slabbed. Put them up for slabbed prices and see how many sell.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

I've seen people turn around & re-sell a book before they even received it - that, I must admit, seems a bit weird. I do agree with you, though - you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

Now ... if you want to talk about forum selling unseemliness, well, the usual suspects spring to mind:

 

a) quoting & using GPA prices for raw books

b) quoting GPA prices for slabs, but "omitting" certain sales because they were too low compared to what you're pricing the book at

 

a) GPA can be used as a tool for anything. A certified book is no more or less of a book than a raw copy. Certification is simply a method of assuring trust in the product. A certified book would be just as valuable (or worthless) as a raw book if the populous valued a certified book just the same as a raw book.

 

If the seller of a given book is trusted enough, why can GPA prices not be asked? If the seller's grade is accepted by potential buyers, it is no different than potential buyers accepting CGCs grade.

 

rantrant

 

 

GPA IS A PRICE SURVEY OF SLABBED BOOKS. IT DOES NOT COVER RAW BOOKS

 

GPA PRICING IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS. GPA PRICING IS NOT FOR RAW BOOKS

 

Do I have to keep shouting?

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

me. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you are using GPA as a comparative price for your RAW BOOK you aren't using the same data set.

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

rantrant

 

Are "slabbed books" not books? Books are books. As I said before, certification is only for establishing a currency of trust. If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value.

 

doh!

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
I only dislike the flipping if they asked me to lower my price and I do. Then they flip.

 

Yup. Chiseling a seller down on price with the intention to flip is pretty lame. Pull the trigger at the asking price.....and it's yours to price as you see fit.

 

Not if you tell the seller you will be flipping it when the lower price is offered.

 

All you are doing is making an offer. The Seller can choose to accept or pass.

 

As long as there are no pretenses and both seller and buyer agree on a price there is nothing negative that can be said about the deal.

 

R.

 

 

 

 

I agree. Disclosure is everything. (thumbs u

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

I've seen people turn around & re-sell a book before they even received it - that, I must admit, seems a bit weird. I do agree with you, though - you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

Now ... if you want to talk about forum selling unseemliness, well, the usual suspects spring to mind:

 

a) quoting & using GPA prices for raw books

b) quoting GPA prices for slabs, but "omitting" certain sales because they were too low compared to what you're pricing the book at

 

a) GPA can be used as a tool for anything. A certified book is no more or less of a book than a raw copy. Certification is simply a method of assuring trust in the product. A certified book would be just as valuable (or worthless) as a raw book if the populous valued a certified book just the same as a raw book.

 

If the seller of a given book is trusted enough, why can GPA prices not be asked? If the seller's grade is accepted by potential buyers, it is no different than potential buyers accepting CGCs grade.

 

rantrant

 

 

GPA IS A PRICE SURVEY OF SLABBED BOOKS. IT DOES NOT COVER RAW BOOKS

 

GPA PRICING IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS. GPA PRICING IS NOT FOR RAW BOOKS

 

Do I have to keep shouting?

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

me. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you are using GPA as a comparative price for your RAW BOOK you aren't using the same data set.

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

rantrant

 

Are "slabbed books" not books? Books are books. As I said before, certification is only for establishing a currency of trust. If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

I can't believe I'm even typing this. If that's the truth, all those books you just bought in North Carolina don't need to be slabbed. Put them up for slabbed prices and see how many sell.

 

The arguement you guys are getting in to has been rehashed to death on here and it is multifaceted. You are both right, you guys just need to slow down for a sec.

 

R.

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KingOfRulers

KingOfRulers

Posted
Posted
There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

I've seen people turn around & re-sell a book before they even received it - that, I must admit, seems a bit weird. I do agree with you, though - you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

Now ... if you want to talk about forum selling unseemliness, well, the usual suspects spring to mind:

 

a) quoting & using GPA prices for raw books

b) quoting GPA prices for slabs, but "omitting" certain sales because they were too low compared to what you're pricing the book at

 

a) GPA can be used as a tool for anything. A certified book is no more or less of a book than a raw copy. Certification is simply a method of assuring trust in the product. A certified book would be just as valuable (or worthless) as a raw book if the populous valued a certified book just the same as a raw book.

 

If the seller of a given book is trusted enough, why can GPA prices not be asked? If the seller's grade is accepted by potential buyers, it is no different than potential buyers accepting CGCs grade.

 

rantrant

 

 

GPA IS A PRICE SURVEY OF SLABBED BOOKS. IT DOES NOT COVER RAW BOOKS

 

GPA PRICING IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS. GPA PRICING IS NOT FOR RAW BOOKS

 

Do I have to keep shouting?

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

me. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you are using GPA as a comparative price for your RAW BOOK you aren't using the same data set.

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

rantrant

 

Are "slabbed books" not books? Books are books. As I said before, certification is only for establishing a currency of trust. If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

I can't believe I'm even typing this. If that's the truth, all those books you just bought in North Carolina don't need to be slabbed. Put them up for slabbed prices and see how many sell.

 

The key word is "if". If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value. Did I say that my grade is valued the same as CGC's grade? If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Price/grade discretion.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted

If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

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mschmidt

mschmidt

Posted
Posted
There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

I've seen people turn around & re-sell a book before they even received it - that, I must admit, seems a bit weird. I do agree with you, though - you bought it, you can do whatever you want with it.

 

Now ... if you want to talk about forum selling unseemliness, well, the usual suspects spring to mind:

 

a) quoting & using GPA prices for raw books

b) quoting GPA prices for slabs, but "omitting" certain sales because they were too low compared to what you're pricing the book at

 

a) GPA can be used as a tool for anything. A certified book is no more or less of a book than a raw copy. Certification is simply a method of assuring trust in the product. A certified book would be just as valuable (or worthless) as a raw book if the populous valued a certified book just the same as a raw book.

 

If the seller of a given book is trusted enough, why can GPA prices not be asked? If the seller's grade is accepted by potential buyers, it is no different than potential buyers accepting CGCs grade.

 

rantrant

 

 

GPA IS A PRICE SURVEY OF SLABBED BOOKS. IT DOES NOT COVER RAW BOOKS

 

GPA PRICING IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS. GPA PRICING IS NOT FOR RAW BOOKS

 

Do I have to keep shouting?

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

me. Why is this so hard to grasp? If you are using GPA as a comparative price for your RAW BOOK you aren't using the same data set.

 

GPA IS FOR SLABBED BOOKS.

 

rantrant

 

Are "slabbed books" not books? Books are books. As I said before, certification is only for establishing a currency of trust. If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value.

 

wildly_fanciful_statement.

 

I can't believe I'm even typing this. If that's the truth, all those books you just bought in North Carolina don't need to be slabbed. Put them up for slabbed prices and see how many sell.

 

The key word is "if". If that same currency that is found in a given CGC'd book, is also found in the same raw book, than they are of equal value. Did I say that my grade is valued the same as CGC's grade? If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Price/grade discretion.

 

Am I missing something, or is it now free to slab books?

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

That sums up the difference quite nicely.

 

 

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VintageComics

VintageComics

Posted
Posted
If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

I'll answer as I am one of the better known culprits when it comes to quoting GPA values for raw books. I always price the book below GPA to accommodate for grading fees and guarantee the return grade of the book.

 

As far as liquidity is concerned, usually (acc. to my experience but not always) a person paying strong money for a raw book is buying for their collection and not as worried about liquidity...or want to flip the book and they see something you don't (a 9.6 where me as a seller might see a 9.4) and then the point is moot.

 

Still, if the resto and grade are guaranteed and the price point is fair (ie. grading fees are taken into account) it's just a matter of who submits the book to CGC.

 

No?

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KingOfRulers

KingOfRulers

Posted
Posted

That's just my point.

 

For whatever pool of buyers accept that someone's raw grade is just as valuable as CGC's, there will be no distinction in price from that particular seller and a slabbed book. Whether that is a group of 5 buyers or 5,000. My grade is not valued like CGC's is, so for me to benefit from the value that people do put in those grades, I would need to certify my books. Nonetheless, for whatever amount of people do accept any raw grade and accept equally CGC's grade, the only difference in price is intrinsic (slab and materials), and not in the grade itself.

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

I'll answer as I am one of the better known culprits when it comes to quoting GPA values for raw books. I always price the book below GPA to accommodate for grading fees and guarantee the return grade of the book.

 

As far as liquidity is concerned, usually (but not always) a person paying strong money for a raw book is buying for their collection and not as worried about liquidity.

 

Still, if the resto and grade are guaranteed and the price point is fair (ie. grading fees are taken into account) it's just a matter of who submits the book to CGC.

 

No?

 

A Guarantee of the CGC grade should ALWAYS accompany the use of GPA data when selling raw books. If a seller doesn't offer that guarantee....they shouldn't be using GPA in their sales thread. (thumbs u

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

I'll answer as I am one of the better known culprits when it comes to quoting GPA values for raw books. I always price the book below GPA to accommodate for grading fees and guarantee the return grade of the book.

 

As far as liquidity is concerned, usually (but not always) a person paying strong money for a raw book is buying for their collection and not as worried about liquidity.

 

Still, if the resto and grade are guaranteed and the price point is fair (ie. grading fees are taken into account) it's just a matter of who submits the book to CGC.

 

No?

 

No.

 

Whether or not the person buying the book has liquidity in mind is irrelevant. Liquidity plays a huge roll in the premiums that CGC graded books sell for, and you are trying to capitalize on that premium without investing the time, money and risk to get that book certified.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

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KingOfRulers

KingOfRulers

Posted
Posted
I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

If I agree with the grades, and want the particular book(s), sure.

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MCMiles

MCMiles

Posted
Posted
I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
If it were, than there would be no distinction in price. Just as someone might be willing to pay more for a raw book that they believe was graded accurately, than a CGC'd book that was overgraded.

 

Nope. Part of the reason a premium is paid for CGC graded books is that the buyer can turn around the next day and sell the same book for relatively the same price; liquidity. Regardless of how much trust a buyer may place in your grading skills, the liquidity isn't there, so why should the premium asociated with that liquidiy, not to mention the grading fees built into every slab, be paid to you?

 

I'll answer as I am one of the better known culprits when it comes to quoting GPA values for raw books. I always price the book below GPA to accommodate for grading fees and guarantee the return grade of the book.

 

As far as liquidity is concerned, usually (but not always) a person paying strong money for a raw book is buying for their collection and not as worried about liquidity.

 

Still, if the resto and grade are guaranteed and the price point is fair (ie. grading fees are taken into account) it's just a matter of who submits the book to CGC.

 

No?

 

A Guarantee of the CGC grade should ALWAYS accompany the use of GPA data when selling raw books. If a seller doesn't offer that guarantee....they shouldn't be using GPA in their sales thread. (thumbs u

 

The prices for CGC graded comics are the prices for CGC graded comics, period.

 

To use GPA on anything other than graded books is to misuse empirical data in order to suit one's own purposes.

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COI

COI

Posted
Posted
I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

If you're comfortable using GPA in that manner to buy, that's fine, but it's still an invalid use of the data. To argue otherwise is illogical.

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MCMiles

MCMiles

Posted
Posted
I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

Better yet. How would you usually price these raw books? Something like a 9.2 ASM #50? or the same book in 9.4?

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DarkKnightReturns

DarkKnightReturns

Posted
Posted
I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I agree with this.

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