Flipping, a mortal sin?

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

If you are recognizing a "great deal" you are evaluating the profit potential to be made. Why not leave it on the wall display for the "collector". Buying that book to sell for a profit makes you a dealer. What you do with the profit is your choice.

 

I come to the table, the person selling knows I'm a dealer. You are coming to the table as a collector, however if a great deal is on the wall you buy it even though you don't want it. What's the difference? I can rationalize everything in my favor if I give it enough spin.

 

 

Bob,

 

I don't know you very well, although we have talked at cons a couple of times. I never have been able to figure out where this whole collector/dealer thing goes to its logical conclusion. But here is where i think the rubber meets the road. If I buy consumer goods or clothing for example, only to sell them at a garage sale later, that does not make me a clothing dealer. If I buy a car, or several cars over several years and sell them prior to purchasing a new car, my opinion is that I am not a car dealer. These are transactions that are occasional and also where I do not have a lot of expertise.

 

What you appear to be talking about is volume and expertise. If you buy and sell comics in volume, which most of us do, and have sufficient expertise to understand the market, you are a dealer. That makes most of here comic dealers, part time, yes, but comic dealers nonetheless. My question to you is, "so what?"

 

So, its more competition for Bob, that's what.

[Shootydog]

I dont refer to my collection as "Stock". Therefore I am a collector.

 

If I was a dealer I would have no collection.

 

Thats my distinction and it works for me.

[JazzMan]

I only dislike the flipping if they asked me to lower my price and I do. Then they flip.

 

+1

[COI]

i think that in the era of CGC the days of a true collector are gone. I mean years ago I had over 10K books but then did shows and such to make a few $$, then over the past several years, cgc comes along and the $2x,3x,4x, 10x guide + prices are realized so how can you hold onto such pricey items when people are willing to pony up the lots o cash for a 9.4 number? My answer, you can't.

 

I know of more than a couple high grade slab collectors who buy books and actually keep them. I would like to be one of those collectors, not because I think there's anything wrong with flipping or dealing, but simply because I have a hard time incorporating business with pleasure. I know that if I start down the path of buying to flip, it'll never be enough, and I'll spend most of my time in this hobby looking for a few extra bucks instead of enjoying the acquiring the books themselves, for their own sake. If I sell something, it's usually because I simply don't want it anymore, and if I take a loss, or "leave money on the table", then so be it.

 

Again, there's nothing wrong with buying to flip if you enjoy it, but I don't want my hobby to be a second career. I think it's a little extreme to suggest that no one can actually buy to keep, just because the books are more expensive than ever.

[DrWatson]

In a nutshell: buy it, keep it or flip it, who cares? If you sell it, it ain't yours anymore. If you flip it, don't rub somebody's nose in it.

[JvR11]

I think there are many who also "flip" to get the cash for the books they really want or would be unable to get. I sometimes flip books if I see a good deal is to be made just so I can fund other comic purchases. I feel if someone buys it, it is theirs.

[nik]

Growing up for me used to be when going to Con/LCS buy books that I want to keep. With the arrival of CGC, my philosophy in the way I purchase has changed dramatically.

 

I now find myself buying books that I really have no desire for but more in line of I will get my money back and then some first, then everything else for myself.

 

Lets face it, this hobby has become very expensive over the last few years, especially if you are a higher grade collector. If I spend $5k at a show, I do this with the hopes of selling more then half of my purchases to cover all expenses and keeping a few for my collection.

 

For myself, its been a self funding hobby for the past 6 years.

[COI]

For myself, its been a self funding hobby for the past 6 years.

 

If you've been enjoying the frequent buying/selling process, there's nothing wrong with that at all. I have no doubt that the selling part, for some, has become inextricably linked with their overall enjoyment of the hobby.

 

Some people enjoy selling, some sell because it's the only way they can keep buying, and some people's collections are like black holes, and once something gets sucked in, it isn't coming back out. There's no right or wrong way to go about it, and it just comes down to whatever floats your boat.

 

 

[mackenzie999]

I think technology has blurred the line between hobbyist and professional, just as it has in many other professions.

 

The tools of graphic design (typeset type for example) were once the province of professionals only, but once home computers matured, pro type became available to everyone. The same thing with comic selling: the part available to professionals (access to a wide customer base) became available to the masses (thank you internet*) the lines between dealer and collector become blurred.

 

There are probably very many valid ways to distinguish between the two, but they are based on your own perceptions and opinions and will differ from others with equally legitimate criteria.

 

*I'm ignoring the fact that anyone could get a table at a convention because it is inconvenient to my thesis

[Designer Toast]

I've sold books here that were later slabbed and offered for more than ten times what I sold the book for. Am I mad about it? No. I have the resources at my disposal to get a book slabbed.

 

I know some raw books I've sold have gone to comic shows and sold for more than I got here. Do I "flip" out about it? Nope. (Okay, okay, terrible pun intended. )

 

Do I get mad when I grade a book NM-/NM and the person I sold it to has it slabbed and it comes back 9.6 or 9.8? Not at all. Been there, done that.

 

Do I get mad when someone sends me a nut-hugger PM and then four or five PMs later shoots me a lowball because they want to get a book to flip? Negative. Please don't smile while you pizz on my feet while you tell me you're shining my shoes.

 

If I post a book and it sells for my asking price or I take an offer, that's that. It is what it is and if I wanted more money then I should have either slabbed the book or asked for more.

 

Why waste the time getting mad and potentially ruin a hobby I greatly enjoy?

[Transplant]

Isn't it time for blazingbob to post here asking us what the distinction is between collector and dealer?

[skypinkblu]

I'm reading this thread and laughing. I used to buy lots on Ebay and sell off the ones I didn't want so I could AFFORD to keep the others. I did this quite often.

 

Over the years, the few books became a few thousand, then a few more...I will never sell at a show, it's just not me, if I decide to get rid of some of the more expenisve books so I can buy others (or help pay for my daughter's wedding) ..I usually give them to a good friend and pay him a percentage for selling them at shows. He jokes that I'm a part time dealer...I think it makes him feel better...

 

Dealer, collector...whatever...when I was 6 or 7 years old, we used to sell comics for a few cents each to each other, then we would all go buy the ones we hadn't read ...from the other kids

 

I see the selling market basically the same way I saw my sales as a 6 year old;) It's part of the hobby:)

[supapimp]

Growing up for me used to be when going to Con/LCS buy books that I want to keep. With the arrival of CGC, my philosophy in the way I purchase has changed dramatically.

 

I now find myself buying books that I really have no desire for but more in line of I will get my money back and then some first, then everything else for myself.

 

Lets face it, this hobby has become very expensive over the last few years, especially if you are a higher grade collector. If I spend $5k at a show, I do this with the hopes of selling more then half of my purchases to cover all expenses and keeping a few for my collection.

 

For myself, its been a self funding hobby for the past 6 years.

 

+gazillion

[Calamerica]

I've sold books here that were later slabbed and offered for more than ten times what I sold the book for. Am I mad about it? No. I have the resources at my disposal to get a book slabbed.

 

I know some raw books I've sold have gone to comic shows and sold for more than I got here. Do I "flip" out about it? Nope. (Okay, okay, terrible pun intended. )

 

Do I get mad when I grade a book NM-/NM and the person I sold it to has it slabbed and it comes back 9.6 or 9.8? Not at all. Been there, done that.

 

Do I get mad when someone sends me a nut-hugger PM and then four or five PMs later shoots me a lowball because they want to get a book to flip? Negative. Please don't smile while you pizz on my feet while you tell me you're shining my shoes.

 

If I post a book and it sells for my asking price or I take an offer, that's that. It is what it is and if I wanted more money then I should have either slabbed the book or asked for more.

 

Why waste the time getting mad and potentially ruin a hobby I greatly enjoy?

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

If you are recognizing a "great deal" you are evaluating the profit potential to be made.

 

That's simply not true, and you're thinking only like a dealer.

 

The better the price I can get on something I want, the more money I have to spend on....other stuff that I want.

 

It has absolutely nothing to do with "profit potential" because true collectors HATE selling. But some of us must do that to support our....ahem..."habit."

 

If I NEVER had to sell a book, I would be a happy camper indeed. Unfortunately, economic realities are what they are, and the culture of comic collecting forces the hands of younger collectors who didn't have the benefit of buying books in the 60's and 70's for cents as opposed to dollars.

 

If I want an X-men #94...in even the LOWEST grade...I'll have to pay at least $$30-50 for it. If I want an Amazing Fantasy #15 in even the lowest grade, I have to pay $1,000+ for it. I have no choice. I do not make the kind of money it would take to collect even a minimal Silver Age Marvel collection, let alone anything else from that era. Forget "high grade."

 

But if I say "there's potential here", and I see that potential and capitalize on it...then, I can afford those neato things that a lot of you take for granted.

 

How many dealers bought Fantasy #15 for 12 cents? $1? $5? $10? $200?

 

Sure, there are people who do what you describe solely for profit, and I frankly wish those people didn't exist. They drive up prices for everyone else on "the stuff everyone wants." But I cannot condemn them if they are recognizing a demand that exists, and doing what it takes to come up with the supply.

 

That's pure capitalism at its best, and that's how it works.

 

The difference between collectors and profiteers is very simple: if you're willing to sell your last and/or only copy if "the price is right", you're not a collector.

 

And there's really nothing wrong with that, it just is what it is.

[DrWatson]

There is nothing wrong with purchasing a book at a discount. There's nothing wrong with asking for a discount. Shelling out some and bull story to get a better price just to sell the book a week later is the next thing to being dishonest.

[MCMiles]

Yep, and a point that has been stated many times in this thread and in previous threads.

 

Why is this even a discussion? The people that would not naturally govern themselves by these standards aren't going to change, and the people to which these standards aren't good enough, aren't going to change either.

[DrWatson]

Yep, and a point that has been stated many times in this thread and in previous threads.

 

Why is this even a discussion? The people that would not naturally govern themselves by these standards aren't going to change, and the people to which these standards aren't good enough, aren't going to change either.

Bottom line: Sell at a figure you are comfortable with selling. If you aren't comfortable, then don't sell. The same thing can be said for buying. Sellers don't always have a huge margin to be offering up discounts.

 

I have bought books from Bob, Dale, Richard and a host of others. Sometimes I ask what they can do and other times I have paid asking. There are other things to consider in this hobby besides the price of a comic book.

[Jeffro.]

There are some people here who are under a disconnect from reality. Some people, literally, HATE the thought that someone else can profit off of a book.

 

If you hit the "I'll take it" on any book, it is yours. Do with it, what you please.

 

 

Okay, King hit the nail on the head in the second post of this thread.

 

And yet, for some reason it's now on page 5 and counting.

[joeypost]

I know how to grade, and I've got some nice raw books to sell. I'll give you any freaking guarantee you want, including full return privelages. Wanna buy them at GPA?

 

 

I do it all the time. I spent a lot of money on comic books at Heroes. I based all of my purchases on GPA. Most were raw books, but I value my grade as much as I do CGC's, so it's easy. If I valued your grade as much as CGC's then I would have no problem paying GPA for your books if I wanted them.

 

I agree with this.

 

Agree all you like. See what you think when you try to sell that book down the road.

 

Valuing your grade as much as CGC??? Paying GPA? This is a fine recipe for losing money.

 

I susbscribe to the same philosophy as Mike, so far that recipe has funded my collecting habit, the funds I need for 3 major conventions every year and some additional money to start up a business with. Even with the drop in GPA averages for most books the formula is still paying off.