Manufactured Gold

[Red Hook]

The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he approved of the direction the thread has taken. I spoke with him at length yesterday on the phone, and he felt the topics touched on were totally relevant to his original intent. He'll be putting up some more books soon. You can't control these things.

 

Relax.

[shadroch]

Perhaps someone can do a new edited thread,ala the TPB of Crisis on Infinite Forums

[awe4one]

Thanks guys. I came to see pictures of upgraded books (and to draw my own conclusions about Heritage and their business practices) and I end up with a bunch of people arguing over peripheral topics. The last 5-10 pages have been devoted to what? Some stupid discussion about criminal law and circumstantial evidence versus speculation. It's sadly ironic that you guys spend all this time complaining about the lack of evidence and then BURY what evidence there is with your inane ramblings. Why do so many worthwhile threads get diluted by the same people having the same argument over the same things time and time again? You think boardmembers are going to bother with this thread? Why would they?

 

 

Here is an idea. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. I don't need or want to hear FFB's, tth2's, Hook's or anyone else's every thought on the matter. I just want to see the DAMN BOOKS without wading through 46 pages to do it. Then I can draw my own conclusions. Is that so much to ask?

 

 

(cue flashback to Matt Nelson's free pressing thread, also hopelessly derailed until Tim saved it)

 

It's a public message forum. Get over it or move along to another topic...no one is forcing you to watch...

 

Jim

[Red Hook]

Perhaps someone can do a new edited thread,ala the TPB of Crisis on Infinite Forums

 

I was going to suggest that. Nice job, October.

 

 

Red

[october]

Whatever.

 

Those who want to see the books can look here. I just need help fixing the images.

 

http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...c=1#Post1414416

 

The rest of you can continue with your regularly scheduled bickering.

[FFB]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

So say "my sources."

[FFB]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

Don't worry...Scott will have the precise numbers set against total population.

 

Because it would otherwise be a 'convenient and hyperbolic addendum', wouldn't it?

 

No it wouldn't.

[OldGuy]

The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he approved of the direction the thread has taken.

 

Well no [embarrassing lack of self control]. More like;

 

"The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he knew the direction the thread would take, and the board responded exactly as he expected it to".

 

Anyone that's been here more then a month knows that this thread was pre-destined to get to where it is now.

[awe4one]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

So say "my sources."

 

Again, almost three years ago people here, some very veteran collectors/dealers and knowledgeable on the going ons in the hobby, were dismissing the extent of pressing in the hobby. Now you are saying that pressing was happening to a significant degree pre-CGC according to your sources...

 

Maybe your sources are overstating things "significantly"...

 

Jim

[FFB]

I'll give you that as to Bronze. Silver, I don't know.

 

You could be right concerning how much Silver has been manipulated. But I see the FF #3/10, JIM #83, Hulk Ann #1, BB #28 and other SA examples over the last year or so and it makes me wonder how widespread the practice is within the genre...

 

Jim

 

What I meant is that I believe that silver age books were being pressed in significant numbers before CGC existed. There is no question that they're being pressed in significant numbers now.

Well, if you listen to old-timers like Lou Fine, they're pretty adamant that doing pressing alone is a post-CGC phenomenon. They acknowledge, of course, that pressing was done before CGC came around, but their strong belief was that it was only done in conjunction with other forms of restoration because prior to CGC downgrading non-color breaking creases so severely, there was no real financial incentive to only press a book. If such other forms of resto were done conjunction with the pressing (except for dry cleaning which CGC seems to be okay with) prior to the advent of CGC, you'd think that CGC would have detected the resto.

 

Disclaimer: I own slabbed SA books. In some circles, I have been deemed to have spent a "tankerful of money" on said SA books. You are hereby advised that due to such ownership, all statements that I have made above regarding SA books could reflect bias on my part arising from my motivation to preserve the value of my collection (large parts of which I am in the process of selling). Accordingly, you are urged to interpret all of my statements regarding SA books accordingly.

 

Just because Lou_Fine says it doesn't make it true. Even before CGC, a three-inch non-color-breaking crease and/or 15 thumb/finger dents in a cover affected the grade significantly. So did warping from improper storage, bent overhang over a five-inch area, etc. Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

What constitutes a "significant degree"?

 

Are your sources dealers, collectors or both?

 

How many sources?

 

What time frame are we talking about?

 

"Sorry, but I can't reveal my sources or they wouldn't be my sources anymore."

[Red Hook]

The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he approved of the direction the thread has taken.

 

Well no [embarrassing lack of self control]. More like;

 

"The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he knew the direction the thread would take, and the board responded exactly as he expected it to".

 

Anyone that's been here more then a month knows that this thread was pre-destined to get to where it is now.

 

You thought it would turn into "Last Stand at the Heritage Corral"?

 

I didn't.

[esquirecomics]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

So say "my sources."

 

What constitutes a "significant degree"?

 

Are your sources dealers, collectors or both?

 

How many sources?

 

What time frame are we talking about?

[FFB]

Thanks guys. I came to see pictures of upgraded books (and to draw my own conclusions about Heritage and their business practices) and I end up with a bunch of people arguing over peripheral topics. The last 5-10 pages have been devoted to what? Some stupid discussion about criminal law and circumstantial evidence versus speculation. It's sadly ironic that you guys spend all this time complaining about the lack of evidence and then BURY what evidence there is with your inane ramblings. Why do so many worthwhile threads get diluted by the same people having the same argument over the same things time and time again? You think boardmembers are going to bother with this thread? Why would they?

 

 

Here is an idea. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. I don't need or want to hear FFB's, tth2's, Hook's or anyone else's every thought on the matter. I just want to see the DAMN BOOKS without wading through 46 pages to do it. Then I can draw my own conclusions. Is that so much to ask?

 

 

(cue flashback to Matt Nelson's free pressing thread, also hopelessly derailed until Tim saved it)

 

Here's a thought. You don't like it? Tough. I don't like the fact that you whine about thread content more than any three other people here. Everyone has problems with something here. Just live with it.

[FFB]

Thanks guys. I came to see pictures of upgraded books (and to draw my own conclusions about Heritage and their business practices) and I end up with a bunch of people arguing over peripheral topics. The last 5-10 pages have been devoted to what? Some stupid discussion about criminal law and circumstantial evidence versus speculation. It's sadly ironic that you guys spend all this time complaining about the lack of evidence and then BURY what evidence there is with your inane ramblings. Why do so many worthwhile threads get diluted by the same people having the same argument over the same things time and time again? You think boardmembers are going to bother with this thread? Why would they?

 

 

Here is an idea. TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. I don't need or want to hear FFB's, tth2's, Hook's or anyone else's every thought on the matter. I just want to see the DAMN BOOKS without wading through 46 pages to do it. Then I can draw my own conclusions. Is that so much to ask?

 

 

(cue flashback to Matt Nelson's free pressing thread, also hopelessly derailed until Tim saved it)

 

It's a public message forum. Get over it or move along to another topic...no one is forcing you to watch...

 

Jim

 

Look! Another echo!

[OldGuy]

The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he approved of the direction the thread has taken.

 

Well no [embarrassing lack of self control]. More like;

 

"The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he knew the direction the thread would take, and the board responded exactly as he expected it to".

 

Anyone that's been here more then a month knows that this thread was pre-destined to get to where it is now.

 

You thought it would turn into "Last Stand at the Heritage Corral"?

 

I didn't.

 

Nothing that specific, but just the usual "mixed nuts".

[FFB]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

So say "my sources."

 

Again, almost three years ago people here, some very veteran collectors/dealers and knowledgeable on the going ons in the hobby, were dismissing the extent of pressing in the hobby. Now you are saying that pressing was happening to a significant degree pre-CGC according to your sources...

 

Maybe your sources are overstating things "significantly"...

 

Jim

 

And maybe you're choosing to believe what you want to believe because you think it supports your world view.

 

Regardless, without videotaped evidence, Batman_fan is just going to call this NO PROOF anyway, so it's pointless to argue about it. I believe that there was NDP pressing to a significant degree before CGC because I've spoken to people who told me they did it (not on cheap books like now, but on more expensive books). You don't believe that. We can still coexist despite our different beliefs.

[FFB]

Lou_fine can say what he wants, but I know for a fact that NDP was going on to a significant degree before CGC.

 

Says who? And could you be more specific on what passed for "significant" compared to the NDP activities going on today?

 

Jim

 

So say "my sources."

 

What constitutes a "significant degree"?

 

Are your sources dealers, collectors or both?

 

How many sources?

 

What time frame are we talking about?

 

Jim's right -- there IS an echo in here!

[Red Hook]

You thought it would turn into "Last Stand at the Heritage Corral"?

 

I didn't.

 

Nothing that specific, but just the usual "mixed nuts".

 

And you're not one of us, eh?

[awe4one]

And maybe you're choosing to believe what you want to believe because you think it supports your world view.

 

Regardless, without videotaped evidence, Batman_fan is just going to call this NO PROOF anyway, so it's pointless to argue about it. I believe that there was NDP pressing to a significant degree before CGC because I've spoken to people who told me they did it (not on cheap books like now, but on more expensive books). You don't believe that. We can still coexist despite our different beliefs.

 

Oh...I believe it was going on...but only at a fraction of the degree or quantities we are seeing now...

 

Jim

[OldGuy]

The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he approved of the direction the thread has taken.

 

Well no [embarrassing lack of self control]. More like;

 

"The originator of the thread, Master Chief posted yesterday that he knew the direction the thread would take, and the board responded exactly as he expected it to".

 

Anyone that's been here more then a month knows that this thread was pre-destined to get to where it is now.

 

You thought it would turn into "Last Stand at the Heritage Corral"?

 

I didn't.

 

Nothing that specific, but just the usual "mixed nuts".

 

I should add that the Heritage defenders surprised me a little. I'm not so much surprised that there are people that continue to do a lot of business with Heritage, just surprised they would admit it, and defend Heritage with such zeal.