Manufactured Gold

[Harvey Dude]

Once again, Great job MasterChief. Very informative postings.

[rodan57]

MasterChief, you deserve an 8.5 for such great work.

 

No, make that a 9.0.

 

Perhaps a 9.4.

 

Actually a 9.6 is due.

 

p.s.

Excuse my pastiche, MasterChief. You are doing a mighty fine job. Well done.

[Davenport]

Haven't I seen some kind of comic police badge awarded to folks on the boards for their detective work on tracking books and such? If MasterChief doesn't have one, dude deserves a Gold Shield. Great work

Amazing work and deserves an award. Thread of the Year, without question.

 

[Red Hook]

Absolutely gorgeous image Davenport!

 

And well-deserved by The Chief!

[burntboy]

Absolutely gorgeous image Davenport!

 

And well-deserved by The Chief!

 

Yup - quite imaginative and nice to look at - i want one.....................

[MasterChief]

Very much appreciate the time and effort you put into that graphic, Davenport, and I thank you for your support throughout the thread.

 

I’d also like to personally thank those who have provided public and private feedback during the course of discussion. Your interest in the topic was my motivation for continued case exploration.

 

Up to this point, I have tried to provide a compilation of treatment examples that clearly depict the various methods that have been, and continue to be, employed to recreate or artificially enhance the aesthetic appearance and monetary value of our hobby’s collectables.

 

Although not entirely comprehensive in its initial approach, the focus of the presentation at the outset was with regard to offering examples of cleaning and pressing treatment techniques. During the course of discussion, however, the presentation was modified such as to include additional treatment procedures to reinforce, support, and/or anticipate dialogue and assist with its movement forward. Clearly, as we have all learned, this is not just about ‘pressing’. It is so much more than that.

 

All the way through the exposé, it was inferred that I was not who I said I was, and that I must have some sort of underlying agenda for posting. To this day, these thoughts continue to flourish amongst those who, for what ever reason, cannot be convinced otherwise. I get the distinct impression they want me to be who they think I should be. And that I should hold the agenda for which they think I should be holding.

 

Personally, I really don’t know what else to say to those that harbor sentiments such as these, other than; you continue to believe what you want to believe, and while you’re at it, keep these thoughts in mind:

 

I have been honest in the quantity and quality of information supplied herein. It is accurate and grounded in reference. I have done nothing new here that hasn’t been done before by those interested in such study. Other than wrapping the content and presenting it in a different manner, anybody with a computer and a modem can monitor sales, access auctions, research past transactions, and much, much more. In short, you can get all the same data and you can do more with it than you ever could have dreamed of before. These are the same type of due diligence techniques that have been used by savvy stock market investors for years when researching public companies.

 

In closing, I find it somewhat ironic that when a call for user ID disclosure goes out to promote trust and friendship, folks eagerly line up to provide their personal information on a public website which, in this digital information age, could possibly lead to future financial implications.

 

And yet when the call for disclosure of comic book manipulation is suggested, it is met with hesitancy, resistance, and labeled as agenda driven trouble-making rhetoric by those who claim that hobbyists do not care about the treatment of books or the disclosure of such facts therein.

 

--MasterChief

[codfish]

In closing, I find it somewhat ironic that when a call for user ID disclosure goes out to promote trust and friendship, folks eagerly line up to provided their personal information on a public website which, in this digital information age, could possibly lead to future financial implications.

 

And yet when the call for disclosure of comic book manipulation is suggested, it is met with hesitancy, resistance, and labeled as agenda driven trouble-making rhetoric by those who claim that hobbyists do not care about the treatment of books or the disclosure of such facts therein.

 

Yeah that is very ironic is it not?

 

One of the reasons I took a very long leave from this forum was not just because of ridicule of my former support of PGX but because I did not find enough rational discussion on topics. I was judged on my support for a company and not for my observations/comments.

 

But that really is the nature of forums and the comic collecting community. Many seem to abhor so many things until it is their reputation and dollars on the line. They say they believe certain things then refute them out the other side of their mouths.

 

The only way I feel that our bad behaviours can change is with diligent work like you have done here MC. The evidence you have presented here is shocking and should force more people within and outside the comics community take a stand against all of the corruption and greed in the hobby. It is truly sad to see so many nice books that survived in fantastic shape get pressed, cleaned and massaged to what we think is actually an improved/original condition. there is not other reason to do such things other than to make more money or claim some sort of bragging rights.

 

I was educated to understand that fine or better books from the GA and SA are, in many cases, very respectable book to own REAL AND TRUE high grade books of many titles/issues are almost non-existent. I feel lucky whenever I manage to find a 6.0 and up.

 

:shrugs:

 

Anyway thanks so much for all your hard work it has been .... informative.... to say the least.

[Aces]

Absolutely gorgeous image Davenport!

 

And well-deserved by The Chief!

 

Yup - quite imaginative and nice to look at - i want one.....................

 

Ditto!

[Davenport]

You're welcome.

 

I really appreciate your hard work, and here's why: Trying to become educated has been such a slooooow process. It's like trying to assemble a puzzle that's missing way too many pieces. And pieces you can see don't make sense...until another piece is revealed at some future point. It's maddening.

Like the TomMurnane-posted Green Lantern, with all it's poped inner wraps, miraculously Blued by Keebler Elf-style paper tucking. Just...didn't...make...sense, until another puzzle piece gets presented down the road. Your posted example of the re-re-arranged double covers, and lo and behold whatdayaknow, disassembly in and of it's self isn't restoration. That fits. While it's true Magic isn't considered restoration either, it wasn't elves after all.

 

Plus, knowing now disassembly isn't restoration reveals what a a big insider joke that whole NDP bruhaha and opinion-collecting was. Punked.

 

And then there's that whole Ewert fiasco. Demonized, hated, scourge of the hobby. But (what's it been now? About a year?) slooowly you come to realize in HIS world he just applied one technique too many. That's all. If he could've restrained himself to undisclosed dry-cleaning, disassembly, pressing, reassembly, paper-tucking, and various staple manipulations he'd still be crusing the Cashzilla superhighway (which he may still, who knows. but if he is, he's riding in the trunk.)

 

Anyway, thanks. And more puzzle pieces please.

[tth2]

And then there's that whole Ewert fiasco. Demonized, hated, scourge of the hobby. But (what's it been now? About a year?) slooowly you come to realize in HIS world he just applied one technique too many. That's all. If he could've restrained himself to undisclosed dry-cleaning, disassembly, pressing, reassembly, paper-tucking, and various staple manipulations he'd still be crusing the Cashzilla superhighway (which he may still, who knows. but if he is, he's riding in the trunk.)

Great point!

[Harvey Dude]

And yet when the call for disclosure of comic book manipulation is suggested, it is met with

hesitancy, resistance, and labeled as agenda driven trouble-making rhetoric by those who

claim that hobbyists do not care about the treatment of books or the disclosure of such

facts therein.

 

--MasterChief

 

I suspect the ones who levy the "vocal minority" accusations know that we are truly in the

majority when it comes to wanting transparency in this hobby. Keep up the great work.

[batman_fan]

I posted this once before, but does this book desreve some heavy bidding? Given its green lable for a popped staple, and the new knowledge that disassemble is not restoration.

 

Adventure 42 with popped staple

 

I mean even if it does take a little glue to hold it together, it is still a blue label.

 

Human Torch 1 with glue and a blue holder

 

I have saved off the scan becuase it is a decent size on Heritage's site just to see if it shows up down stream in a new holder with a higher grade.

[batman_fan]

This thread (and I might add, it has been one of the best) brings up the folowing questions for me.

 

1. Who keeps upgrading these books?

2. Is it one person or are several people playing them game?

3. Do they select the candidates from scans or view the books in person (I can't imagine looking at scans being too good for what they do).

4. What other unknown procedures are they "playing" with to see if they can slip something else by CGC.

5. Have they been able to slip other work considered restoration by CGC?

[esquirecomics]

This thread (and I might add, it has been one of the best) brings up the folowing questions for me.

 

1. Who keeps upgrading these books?

2. Is it one person or are several people playing them game?

3. Do they select the candidates from scans or view the books in person (I can't imagine looking at scans being too good for what they do).

4. What other unknown procedures are they "playing" with to see if they can slip something else by CGC.

5. Have they been able to slip other work considered restoration by CGC?

 

Excellent questions.

 

I firmly believe we are quite close to answering #1 and #2. It is just a matter of time before someone on these boards recognizes a book and knows exactly who bought and sold it. Of course, there are some on these boards already who can answer #1 and #2 but, for a variety of reasons (some understandable), have not done so. Too bad the individual(s) responsible for the "enhancements" are not willing to come forward themselves and justify their conduct. Stay the course is their mantra!

[thirdgreenham]

Big props to you hard workers!

Andy

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

 

As I'm steadily catching up on a week's worth of threads, I realize this one is stuck in Page 5 Limbo....

[phoenix215]

It is a shame that there is nothing on the comic itself that could be used to identify it now and in the future

[ciorac]

It is a shame that there is nothing on the comic itself that could be used to identify it now and in the future

 

Start making small, inconsequential marks on the books you sell, perhaps in the interior margin on page 17 or something. Then you will have your tag..

 

[phoenix215]

It is a shame that there is nothing on the comic itself that could be used to identify it now and in the future

 

Start making small, inconsequential marks on the books you sell, perhaps in the interior margin on page 17 or something. Then you will have your tag..

 

 

 

*hides thick marking pen behind my back*...whatever do you mean?

[ciorac]

It is a shame that there is nothing on the comic itself that could be used to identify it now and in the future

 

Start making small, inconsequential marks on the books you sell, perhaps in the interior margin on page 17 or something. Then you will have your tag..

 

 

 

*hides thick marking pen behind my back*...whatever do you mean?

 

Pencil would be better, or invisible ink!