Manufactured Gold

[Filter81]

[tth2]

In this case it looks as if a brighter scan might be the culprit - washing out the whites - the transparancy (aggravated by microchamber paper I gather) is still quite visible in the red squares. You can see the difference in brightness levels by comparing the blues in the CGC labels.

I`m glad someone pointed this out. While some clear cases of comic manipulation have been accurately pointed out in this thread, it was pretty obvious that the reduced translucence in this book was simply a case of scan manipulation.

 

And as has been discussed in numerous threads on these boards, apparent translucence in slabbed books is heightened by the white microchamber paper that is inserted after the cover page.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I wonder how it would feel to sell your book for $339.25 minus fees, only to see it sell a year later for $1437.50.

 

Similar to a kick in the nuts I would imagine....

[Viscosity-migration]

Dav...that picture is an instant classic...

 

Question? Halperin is a convicted criminal, correct??? Felon???

 

and CGC is somehow "associated" with him, correct??? (was not he involved in the CGC delevopment stages??)

 

Ugggggg, its all starting to just [embarrassing lack of self control] me off to no end

 

 

 

 

is this post considered "constructive discourse"???

[Viscosity-migration]

I wonder how it would feel to sell your book for $339.25 minus fees, only to see it sell a year later for $1437.50.

 

Similar to a kick in the nuts I would imagine....

 

 

 

[tth2]

I wonder how it would feel to sell your book for $339.25 minus fees, only to see it sell a year later for $1437.50.

 

Similar to a kick in the nuts I would imagine....

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I wonder how it would feel to sell your book for $339.25 minus fees, only to see it sell a year later for $1437.50.

 

Similar to a kick in the nuts I would imagine....

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

 

Don't put words in my mouth ya jerk off.. Everything about it is [embarrassing lack of self control] up, and you know where I stand on the issue.

 

Do us both a favour & put me on ignore.

[tth2]

I wonder how it would feel to sell your book for $339.25 minus fees, only to see it sell a year later for $1437.50.

 

Similar to a kick in the nuts I would imagine....

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

 

Don't put words in my mouth ya jerk off.. Everything about it is [embarrassing lack of self control] up, and you know where I stand on the issue.

 

Do us both a favour & put me on ignore.

Stop being such a wuss and grow up! Your pathetic whining used to be amusing, now it`s just pathetic.

 

I was actually replying to Davenport`s point, because the concern about leaving money on the table genuinely surprised me, but since you framed the issue so well, I decided to quote you also.

 

I have no idea why I need to put you on ignore. Your babblings don`t bother me in the least, because for them to bother me would mean I would attribute one iota of meaningfulness to them. If my posts bother you so much, YOU can feel free to put ME on ignore.

[THE_BEYONDER]

You think you're being clever, but you're not. I couldn't care less what you think, and have no interest at all in wasting my time with you.

[MasterChief]

Thx, Davenport. You know, I ran that test prior to posting and I could not reproduce the results as seen in the 9.4 scan.

 

Although the 9.4 white and yellow appear solid and brighter as a result of applying brightness & contrast, so do the reds. There is a level of change between the two colors that is consistent. They both become vibrant.

 

However, when examining the 8.0 and 9.4 scans, there is only a minor change in the depth of the red – the area is still translucent. The white on the other hand is completely solid. In my opinion, the microchamber paper is not the culprit here.

 

Maybe someone can provide a second opinion on the scanning angle. Redhook, care to weigh in?

 

BTW... if a cover is solvent cleaned, what effect will the cleaning process have on the cover colors? Is it possible to do localized cleaning on lighter colors like the whites and yellows only?

 

.

[batman_fan]

Thx, Davenport. You know, I ran that test prior to posting and I could not reproduce the results as seen in the 9.4 scan.

 

Although the 9.4 white and yellow appear solid and brighter as a result of applying brightness & contrast, so do the reds. There is a level of change between the two colors that is consistent. They both become vibrant.

 

However, when examining the 8.0 and 9.4 scans, there is only a minor change in the depth of the red – the area is still translucent. The white on the other hand is completely solid. In my opinion, the microchamber paper is not the culprit here.

 

Maybe someone can provide a second opinion on the scanning angle. Redhook, care to weigh in?

 

BTW... if a cover is solvent cleaned, what effect will the cleaning process have on the cover colors? Is it possible to do localized cleaning on lighter colors like the whites and yellows only?

 

.

 

Localized dry cleaning could have been used to clean off the dirt which wouldn't affect other areas and dry cleaning isn't restoration.

[Davenport]

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

I like things simple, so for me it's like this... Instead of a market wide phenomenon, boil it down to two players:

 

collector: "I'd like to sell my 8.0 and use the money to upgrade to a NM 9.4. It's one of my goals."

gamer: "We can help you with that."

collector: "Great. Let me know what happens."

gamer: "We sold your 8.0 for $300. And we're searching for a 9.4."

collector: "Awesome. I'm excited."

gamer: "We've located a 9.4 and it's $1400."

collector: "You guys are the best."

gamer: "We like to think so."

 

The collector gets his exact same book back. Out $1100, thanks for playing.

 

That's how the whole Game phenomenon strikes me. Added value seems phantom, an intentional perception-sleigth-of-hand.

[adamstrange]

What gets me is the "back end" of The Game. If I understand it, someone consigns to an auction house to get the best selling price, pays the house a fee.

 

There is no guarantee that an auction house will get you the best price as it is a limited, point-in-time competitive bidding session. There is no guarantee that the bidders will show up or bid or bid competitively enough. For many items, private treaty (e.g. consignment sites) are a better way to go. People sell through Heritage for the same reason that many buy from Mile High Comics, the convenience. There are other venues, but if you don't shop around, you are unlikely to get the best deal.

[Viscosity-migration]

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

I like things simple, so for me it's like this... Instead of a market wide phenomenon, boil it down to two players:

 

collector: "I'd like to sell my 8.0 and use the money to upgrade to a NM 9.4. It's one of my goals."

gamer: "We can help you with that."

collector: "Great. Let me know what happens."

gamer: "We sold your 8.0 for $300. And we're searching for a 9.4."

collector: "Awesome. I'm excited."

gamer: "We've located a 9.4 and it's $1400."

collector: "You guys are the best."

gamer: "We like to think so."

 

The collector gets his exact same book back. Out $1100, thanks for playing.

 

That's how the whole Game phenomenon strikes me. Added value seems phantom, an intentional perception-sleigth-of-hand.

 

 

YIKES!!!!

 

 

IF...this extrapolation of possible events that Davenport just wrote down, turns out to be proven true with FACTS...blood will run, no quesstion about it

[adamstrange]

Thx, Davenport. You know, I ran that test prior to posting and I could not reproduce the results as seen in the 9.4 scan.

 

Although the 9.4 white and yellow appear solid and brighter as a result of applying brightness & contrast, so do the reds. There is a level of change between the two colors that is consistent. They both become vibrant.

 

However, when examining the 8.0 and 9.4 scans, there is only a minor change in the depth of the red – the area is still translucent. The white on the other hand is completely solid. In my opinion, the microchamber paper is not the culprit here.

 

Maybe someone can provide a second opinion on the scanning angle. Redhook, care to weigh in?

 

BTW... if a cover is solvent cleaned, what effect will the cleaning process have on the cover colors? Is it possible to do localized cleaning on lighter colors like the whites and yellows only?

 

.

 

Red's our resident graphics expert, but I have seen dramatic differences in both the output of scanners and the manipulation in image editing software that would account for the difference you see here. For me to be confident of what happened, I would like to see the book in person and, preferably, to have examined it before it reached its potential.

[adamstrange]

So for you guys it has nothing to do with the fact that a perfectly fine book got altered forever, but just that you didn`t wring every possible dollar out of the book and someone else did?

 

Suppose it was originally a 9.2 and sold for $1000 in a moment of crazed bidding, and then the buyer cracked and resubbed and got a 9.6, but it only sold for $900 because 5 9.6 copies had appeared in the meantime. Your sense of outrage would be less because the resubber made less money?

I like things simple, so for me it's like this... Instead of a market wide phenomenon, boil it down to two players:

 

collector: "I'd like to sell my 8.0 and use the money to upgrade to a NM 9.4. It's one of my goals."

gamer: "We can help you with that."

collector: "Great. Let me know what happens."

gamer: "We sold your 8.0 for $300. And we're searching for a 9.4."

collector: "Awesome. I'm excited."

gamer: "We've located a 9.4 and it's $1400."

collector: "You guys are the best."

gamer: "We like to think so."

 

The collector gets his exact same book back. Out $1100, thanks for playing.

 

That's how the whole Game phenomenon strikes me. Added value seems phantom, an intentional perception-sleigth-of-hand.

 

There are some collectors already realizing that this happening and are playing the game themselves. The dealers and the auction houses may have been the trailblazers, but they are they not the only members of the camp.

[MasterChief]

Localized dry cleaning could have been used to clean off the dirt which wouldn't affect other areas and dry cleaning isn't restoration.

 

What effect would dry cleaning have on cover transparency. Would it be removed by the treatment technique?

 

Regarding whether or not dry cleaning is restoration...

 

I understand CGC's position on this matter, however, there seems to be division within the industry regarding its classification. Many consider it to be a form of restoration.

 

.

[adamstrange]

Localized dry cleaning could have been used to clean off the dirt which wouldn't affect other areas and dry cleaning isn't restoration.

 

What effect would dry cleaning have on cover transparency. Would it be removed by the treatment technique?

 

Regarding whether or not dry cleaning is restoration...

 

I understand CGC's position on this matter, however, there seems to be division within the industry regarding its classification. Many consider it to be a form of restoration.

 

.

 

Since the translucency is due to oils that are saturating the cover paper, dry cleaning won't affect it.

[tth2]

You think you're being clever, but you're not. I couldn't care less what you think, and have no interest at all in wasting my time with you.

If that was really the case, then instead of replying perhaps you should be shutting the f**k up.

[Davenport]

 

There are some collectors already realizing that this is happening and are playing the game themselves. The dealers and the auction houses may have been the trailblazers, but they are they not the only members of the camp.

I get that. There are pre-phishing prep services, so everyone can play. And anyone could be the shmoe who unwittingly steps in it, a dealer, a collector, a widow, a celebrity or a charity...seems to be an equal opportunity fleecing phenomenon.

 

What I don't understand is how the folks who "have no problem with it" feel immune.

 

Even if you consider the reconditioning of comics the best thing since indoor toilets, how it is ever OK to unwittingly pay $hundreds$ or $$thousands$$ for a $20 clean&press job?

 

That, I do not get.