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Manufactured Gold

Started by MasterChief,

2,576 posts in this topic

MasterChief

MasterChief

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Posted
If CGC suspended the submittor, wouldn't that be considering "policing" the hobby?

 

They kicked Jason Ewart out of the hobby. Is that not a police action?

 

To be clear, they didn't kick him out of the hobby. They just said that he couldn't submit anymore. He's free to do what he wants otherwise, as comic-keys clearly does. Is he still selling? I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that he is.

 

 

 

On the contrary.

 

The statement made by the company was one of authority and consequence. The words were definitive and clear – levied with influence and received with a perception of power. It clearly went beyond the boundaries of “he couldn't submit anymore”. The distinction between banning from further book submission and expulsion from the hobby is unmistakable. I challenge anyone to interpret it any other way:

 

 

"The minute I read on the boards that the next book (Strange Tales) was found to have been trimmed on that Saturday morning. I got on the phone to Jason and asked him what was going on. Jason told me he did not trim the book. He said that he got it from someone else and also did not buy it from Heritage. I told him I did not care. I told him if that’s true, to bad, it’s the boy who cried wolf, now the wolf is here and nobody will believe him anyway. I told him to get out of the hobby and do not look back. I told him that if I find out he has ever sold another book from that day on, I would do everything in my power, as president of CGC as well as a hobbyist, to make sure he regrets it for the rest of his life. Jason said he would leave the hobby.

 

Jason is now gone for good. If he returns CGC will contemplate taking legal action, though we are contemplating taking it now anyway."

 

 

Follow up response from Steve Borock

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Flaming_Telepath

Flaming_Telepath

Posted
Posted
If CGC suspended the submittor, wouldn't that be considering "policing" the hobby?

 

They kicked Jason Ewart out of the hobby. Is that not a police action?

 

To be clear, they didn't kick him out of the hobby. They just said that he couldn't submit anymore. He's free to do what he wants otherwise, as comic-keys clearly does. Is he still selling? I haven't seen or heard anything that would lead me to believe that he is.

 

 

 

On the contrary.

 

The statement made by the company was one of authority and consequence. The words were definitive and clear – levied with influence and received with a perception of power. It clearly went beyond the boundaries of “he couldn't submit anymore”. The distinction between banning from further book submission and expulsion from the hobby is unmistakable. I challenge anyone to interpret it any other way:

 

 

"The minute I read on the boards that the next book (Strange Tales) was found to have been trimmed on that Saturday morning. I got on the phone to Jason and asked him what was going on. Jason told me he did not trim the book. He said that he got it from someone else and also did not buy it from Heritage. I told him I did not care. I told him if that’s true, to bad, it’s the boy who cried wolf, now the wolf is here and nobody will believe him anyway. I told him to get out of the hobby and do not look back. I told him that if I find out he has ever sold another book from that day on, I would do everything in my power, as president of CGC as well as a hobbyist, to make sure he regrets it for the rest of his life. Jason said he would leave the hobby.

 

Jason is now gone for good. If he returns CGC will contemplate taking legal action, though we are contemplating taking it now anyway."

 

 

Follow up response from Steve Borock

 

thumbsup2.gif

 

Thanks for bumping that. My memory was that it was indeed a bit more than 'no walk-thrus for you, two year'. yeahok.gif

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
Quick question-

Now that CGC is aware of the Sensation having its covers switched,not once but twice-have they called for it to be returned? Have they suspended the account of the person who submitted it?Done anything besides give a mumbo-jumbo explanation of why a dissassembled book was given a blue label?

 

Is this a rhetorical question? CGC doesn't view swapping the covers back the way they were as restoration. Why would they ask for the book back or suspend the submitter? I'm not saying I agree with CGC's stance on whether the book was "restored" or not, but I can't imagine them suspending a submitter because of that book. In my mind, there's a big difference between swapping the covers back the way they were and trimming a book.

 

If CGC suspended the submittor, wouldn't that be considering "policing" the hobby?

 

Matt, what do you call "banning" Ewert?

 

Let's seriously look at that situation. Does anyone really have proof he tried to sneak his "apparently" trimmed books by CGC's restoration detection experts? Is there a rule I am not aware of that says one cannot submit trimmed books to CGC?

 

If CGC missed one or even 350 trimmed books he or others submitted and placed them in blue labels, is that his fault? Does he need to inform CGC of this fact? Interesting ethical question but realistically we all know what the answer would be.

 

So, on what basis did CGC ban Jason Ewert?

 

If CGC informed him that BTW we will now be labelling your books as "trimmed", he could have simply said, "fine, go ahead" or simply stopped submitting books and sold them raw, or gone to PGX. Seems to me to be no different than your position regarding disassembly in that one takes the risk in doing it and submitting. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't.

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Matt Nelson

Matt Nelson

Posted
Posted
Quick question-

Now that CGC is aware of the Sensation having its covers switched,not once but twice-have they called for it to be returned? Have they suspended the account of the person who submitted it?Done anything besides give a mumbo-jumbo explanation of why a dissassembled book was given a blue label?

 

Is this a rhetorical question? CGC doesn't view swapping the covers back the way they were as restoration. Why would they ask for the book back or suspend the submitter? I'm not saying I agree with CGC's stance on whether the book was "restored" or not, but I can't imagine them suspending a submitter because of that book. In my mind, there's a big difference between swapping the covers back the way they were and trimming a book.

 

If CGC suspended the submittor, wouldn't that be considering "policing" the hobby?

 

Matt, what do you call "banning" Ewert?

 

Let's seriously look at that situation. Does anyone really have proof he tried to sneak his "apparently" trimmed books by CGC's restoration detection experts? Is there a rule I am not aware of that says one cannot submit trimmed books to CGC?

 

If CGC missed one or even 350 trimmed books he or others submitted and placed them in blue labels, is that his fault? Does he need to inform CGC of this fact? Interesting ethical question but realistically we all know what the answer would be.

 

So, on what basis did CGC ban Jason Ewert?

 

If CGC informed him that BTW we will now be labelling your books as "trimmed", he could have simply said, "fine, go ahead" or simply stopped submitting books and sold them raw, or gone to PGX. Seems to me to be no different than your position regarding disassembly in that one takes the risk in doing it and submitting. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't.

 

Mark, finish reading this string. I think these things were addressed already.

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
Well maybe CGC needs to post some more information regarding their definition of restoration.

 

Eureka! thumbsup2.gif

 

Any chance you would have the clout to get them to do this?

 

Because the chorus that's come from here in recent months doesn't appear to have been heard. frown.gif

 

I think you guys are heard loud and clear! I'll certainly put a word in with Steve.

 

I'm actually in the process of revamping my website, and there's going to be much more information regarding pressing, conservation, restoration, values, etc. I am a big advocate of educating the collectors, particularly the new ones, and restoration is a very complex issue that needs lots of explaining.

 

Great!!!! Education is a fantastic thing. I am sure you will finally answer the questions I posed to you regarding what constitutes conservation and restoration then!!! yeahok.gif

 

And, yes, here you go: poke2.gif

 

I'm still here. hi.gif

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esquirecomics

esquirecomics

Posted
Posted
Quick question-

Now that CGC is aware of the Sensation having its covers switched,not once but twice-have they called for it to be returned? Have they suspended the account of the person who submitted it?Done anything besides give a mumbo-jumbo explanation of why a dissassembled book was given a blue label?

 

Is this a rhetorical question? CGC doesn't view swapping the covers back the way they were as restoration. Why would they ask for the book back or suspend the submitter? I'm not saying I agree with CGC's stance on whether the book was "restored" or not, but I can't imagine them suspending a submitter because of that book. In my mind, there's a big difference between swapping the covers back the way they were and trimming a book.

 

If CGC suspended the submittor, wouldn't that be considering "policing" the hobby?

 

Matt, what do you call "banning" Ewert?

 

Let's seriously look at that situation. Does anyone really have proof he tried to sneak his "apparently" trimmed books by CGC's restoration detection experts? Is there a rule I am not aware of that says one cannot submit trimmed books to CGC?

 

If CGC missed one or even 350 trimmed books he or others submitted and placed them in blue labels, is that his fault? Does he need to inform CGC of this fact? Interesting ethical question but realistically we all know what the answer would be.

 

So, on what basis did CGC ban Jason Ewert?

 

If CGC informed him that BTW we will now be labelling your books as "trimmed", he could have simply said, "fine, go ahead" or simply stopped submitting books and sold them raw, or gone to PGX. Seems to me to be no different than your position regarding disassembly in that one takes the risk in doing it and submitting. Maybe it will work. Maybe it won't.

 

Mark, finish reading this string. I think these things were addressed already.

 

Yes, my apologies, these were touched upon before I got to this.

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Matt Nelson

Matt Nelson

Posted
Posted
Well maybe CGC needs to post some more information regarding their definition of restoration.

 

Eureka! thumbsup2.gif

 

Any chance you would have the clout to get them to do this?

 

Because the chorus that's come from here in recent months doesn't appear to have been heard. frown.gif

 

I think you guys are heard loud and clear! I'll certainly put a word in with Steve.

 

I'm actually in the process of revamping my website, and there's going to be much more information regarding pressing, conservation, restoration, values, etc. I am a big advocate of educating the collectors, particularly the new ones, and restoration is a very complex issue that needs lots of explaining.

 

Great!!!! Education is a fantastic thing. I am sure you will finally answer the questions I posed to you regarding what constitutes conservation and restoration then!!! yeahok.gif

 

And, yes, here you go: poke2.gif

 

I'm still here. hi.gif

 

You'll find out when you get your Classics Inc newsletter.... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

These cute smiley faces should be redesigned with our actual heads on them. I love em!

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