MH Chuck's SDCC Lament

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Why is there so much concern about someone grabbing the reins, locating another local facility and and begin anew with a Comic Convention during the same week ? I can't grasp why people don't understand that the majority of people in attendance are not there for comic books. Its wonderful to hear a statistic of "125,000 people will walk in front of your table" but the fact is the majority keep walking. Couple this with excessive booth prices and I'm just not seeing it.

Have all the people walking past the tables caused dealers eyes and minds to glaze over? Find another location, same time frame and let it return to what its supposed to be about. Comics.

 

I haven't been to one since 2000, but I remember the monthly LA Sci-Fi and Comic show was always a fun time. LA Monthly show

 

I remember getting some absolute steals at that show from 1993-1994 when I still lived in West LA. One show, a guy had long boxes of Byrne X-Men from 102-on, unread and uncirculated...take your pick, $6 each plus a discount if you bought bulk. Another time, I found a gorgeous VF/NM ASM # 10 at Terry Stroud's booth without a price tag. When I asked him for a price, I fully expected him to say $300+ since the book was so nice. Nope, $75 and it was mine...Terry seemed indifferent to the book and barely cared that he even made the sale. Another time, I picked up a slew of MISB Transformers from the first Generation 1994/1995 issue for $30-$50 a piece. Man, good times.

 

The 90s sure were a great time for buying out west....

 

 

 

[Tomega]

The new Sasha Cohen movie, for example, died within a day of release, with a stunning 40% drop off in ticket sales between Friday and Saturday. That unprecedented decline was almost entirely due to negative word-of-mouth.

 

 

 

Cost to produce : $42 million

Gross revenues in 3 weeks : $81 million

 

 

 

Yeah Chuck - complete failure...................

[Tomega]

The other thing that has hurt these shows is the internet. With all the dealers on- line, Comiclink, Heritage, Pedigree and the 800-lb gorilla eBay there is not as much of a reason to go to these shows except for the media events. It is much more effective for me to sit at my computer and look through 50 sources in a hour for a book I need.

[Forbush-Man]

I'm currently in Houston, TX. coming home from SD Con. My connecting flight leaves in a little over an hour.

 

What I can tell you about sales at SD Con is that they are down from last year. I hope the dealer's get a nice bump today, this being the last day, but it's a reflection of the economy more so than a reflection of SD Con being a Multi-Media Convention (it's been one for the last few years, this didn't just happen over night). The economy took a nose dive last year just a couple months before the National Elections. It was in the tank until around February when it recovered a little and that's where we are today; just a little bit better off then we were 8-9 months ago.

 

The interest is still in the key books; lots of inquiries for AF #15, FF #1, key GA books, ect. But this year folks were really shopping for the book at the right price for the condition they wanted. Several shoppers were writing down booth numbers, condition notes & prices & walking the room. I'd think there will be some keys sold today, but the majority of dealers will still see a 20-30+% lower gross in sales from last year. The hobby's not dying, it's just rent-poor. Just MHO.

[capt_comics]

Comics have really held up well in this recession we're going through from what I've seen at shows, here on the boards, and at the major auction houses.

At least they seem to have until the last 2 or 3 months.

 

The last 4 or 5 months of 2008 and the first 4 or 5 months of 2009 have been relatively steady from what I see at shows. Down somewhat (maybe 15-25%) from the previous years, but not excessive considering the bad financial times we're going through.

 

But this summer I've noticed a real drop off in both attendance and the money being spent by those still attending. Every show I've attended since May, including the two or three biggest one day shows in our area (Atlanta , Hickory and our Charlotte Comicon) have seen declines in attendance. I would suspect Heroes Con attendance was down also. I know it was on Friday and Sunday.

 

The unemployment in our area is very high, a lot higher I would suspect than the

9 1/2 or 10 percent they are saying. Probably 15-25% is more in line with reality. Think it is pretty much this across the entire country.

 

If dealers are saying sales are down at SDCC, think that pretty much proves my point. If you are going to the biggest comic con in the world and not spending much money, it's probably because you can't. Or feel you better not at present.

 

Hopefully we'll see it turn up, but I don't think that will happen until people start getting jobs, and that may be a while off.

 

 

 

[TheWatcher]

I agreed with the whole post except this sentence:

 

"If present trends continue, I predict with more than a small measure of sadness that comics will be a very minor part of this convention within five years."

 

It's already there. I wouldn't be surprised if all the comic dealers are gone within a decade.

 

I've heard the new owners of Chicago want to make it a multi-media event like SDCC. My fear is that Chicago, too, will become like SD and see comics go the way of the dinosaur there.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

Comics have really held up well in this recession we're going through from what I've seen at shows, here on the boards, and at the major auction houses.

At least they seem to have until the last 2 or 3 months.

 

The last 4 or 5 months of 2008 and the first 4 or 5 months of 2009 have been relatively steady from what I see at shows. Down somewhat (maybe 15-25%) from the previous years, but not excessive considering the bad financial times we're going through.

 

But this summer I've noticed a real drop off in both attendance and the money being spent by those still attending. Every show I've attended since May, including the two or three biggest one day shows in our area (Atlanta , Hickory and our Charlotte Comicon) have seen declines in attendance. I would suspect Heroes Con attendance was down also. I know it was on Friday and Sunday.

 

The unemployment in our area is very high, a lot higher I would suspect than the

9 1/2 or 10 percent they are saying. Probably 15-25% is more in line with reality. Think it is pretty much this across the entire country.

 

If dealers are saying sales are down at SDCC, think that pretty much proves my point. If you are going to the biggest comic con in the world and not spending much money, it's probably because you can't. Or feel you better not at present.

 

Hopefully we'll see it turn up, but I don't think that will happen until people start getting jobs, and that may be a while off.

 

 

Yet, I've noticed that sales on eBay have remained steady, and prices are pretty decent overall. I rarely see new GPA highs set like I used to, but lately it seems my lowball bids have been outdone by not one, but 2-3 other people and that the final selling price is a healthy one.

 

I don't think its a stretch to assume that if you have a $500 comic budget (assuming you are one of those still gainfully employed, with no pending foreclosure or bankruptcy to worry about), that in these tough times you're going to want to stretch that budget as much as possible.

 

Driving to a show, even one that's only a few hours away, entails spending money on gas, parking, pricey admission ($25+ is the norm for even a one day ticket to a major show), expensive convention food, overpriced books from dealers who generally need to clear a few grand just to break even, etc., etc. Add in the unruly crowds, the annoying animae costumed kids, the likelihood that the dealers picked clean all the good stuff during set-up, and the fact it's still a cr@p-shoot as to whether you'll find what you're looking for, and staying home that weekend to cruise eBay or Comiclink doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

I've generally avoided going to Cons outside of Florida in the last years for all the reasons stated above. You're out $100 or more before you've even bought your first book. Add in a flight and hotel room, and its more like $300-$500. Now more then ever, if you're the "average" collector, making a trek to a Con just seems like its worthwhile for "the experience", not for the actual buying.

 

 

 

 

[capt_comics]

Comics have really held up well in this recession we're going through from what I've seen at shows, here on the boards, and at the major auction houses.

At least they seem to have until the last 2 or 3 months.

 

The last 4 or 5 months of 2008 and the first 4 or 5 months of 2009 have been relatively steady from what I see at shows. Down somewhat (maybe 15-25%) from the previous years, but not excessive considering the bad financial times we're going through.

 

But this summer I've noticed a real drop off in both attendance and the money being spent by those still attending. Every show I've attended since May, including the two or three biggest one day shows in our area (Atlanta , Hickory and our Charlotte Comicon) have seen declines in attendance. I would suspect Heroes Con attendance was down also. I know it was on Friday and Sunday.

 

The unemployment in our area is very high, a lot higher I would suspect than the

9 1/2 or 10 percent they are saying. Probably 15-25% is more in line with reality. Think it is pretty much this across the entire country.

 

If dealers are saying sales are down at SDCC, think that pretty much proves my point. If you are going to the biggest comic con in the world and not spending much money, it's probably because you can't. Or feel you better not at present.

 

Hopefully we'll see it turn up, but I don't think that will happen until people start getting jobs, and that may be a while off.

 

 

Yet, I've noticed that sales on eBay have remained steady, and prices are pretty decent overall. I rarely see new GPA highs set like I used to, but lately it seems my lowball bids have been outdone by not one, but 2-3 other people and that the final selling price is a healthy one.

 

I don't think its a stretch to assume that if you have a $500 comic budget (assuming you are one of those still gainfully employed, with no pending foreclosure or bankruptcy to worry about), that in these tough times you're going to want to stretch that budget as much as possible.

 

Driving to a show, even one that's only a few hours away, entails spending money on gas, parking, pricey admission ($25+ is the norm for even a one day ticket to a major show), expensive convention food, overpriced books from dealers who generally need to clear a few grand just to break even, etc., etc. Add in the unruly crowds, the annoying animae costumed kids, the likelihood that the dealers picked clean all the good stuff during set-up, and the fact it's still a cr@p-shoot as to whether you'll find what you're looking for, and staying home that weekend to cruise eBay or Comiclink doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

I've generally avoided going to Cons outside of Florida in the last years for all the reasons stated above. You're out $100 or more before you've even bought your first book. Add in a flight and hotel room, and its more like $300-$500. Now more then ever, if you're the "average" collector, making a trek to a Con just seems like its worthwhile for "the experience", not for the actual buying.

 

 

 

 

I'll have to admit, I've grown weary of ebay. Just don't go there very much anymore.

It's good to know some of the "market" is still there.

I would venture to guess ebay's overall gross on comics is down this year. Has to be.

 

I just think the uptick in unemployment is starting to be felt more and more in the comic market. Everywhere. But shows in particularly.

 

It is expensive to go to the bigger multi day shows.

And you're right, the larger shows are an 'event" for most people. Certainly Comic-Con.

 

(thumbs u

 

 

 

[nearmint]

 

What I can tell you about sales at SD Con is that they are down from last year. I hope the dealer's get a nice bump today, this being the last day, but it's a reflection of the economy more so than a reflection of SD Con being a Multi-Media Convention (it's been one for the last few years, this didn't just happen over night).

 

Exactly right. (thumbs u

[Aman619]

The new Sasha Cohen movie, for example, died within a day of release, with a stunning 40% drop off in ticket sales between Friday and Saturday. That unprecedented decline was almost entirely due to negative word-of-mouth.

 

 

 

Cost to produce : $42 million

Gross revenues in 3 weeks : $81 million

 

 

 

Yeah Chuck - complete failure...................

 

yeah, the take on BRUNO isnt the success or failure of it, but the concept circulating that it was twittered to death. That this new communication medium came of age this summer in spreading bad press quicker than ever before possible. As the talk in Hollywood goes.

 

I dont know if I agree, but the thinking goes that a film could last the entir weekend before word of mouth got around, and the Sunday news announced that the film had failed to reach the numbers it was expected to, and that hiff of failure would deter the second weekend crowd, killing the film.

 

Suddenly word spreads wide and fast before the first weekend is even over.

[lookwhoitis]

Why is there so much concern about someone grabbing the reins, locating another local facility and and begin anew with a Comic Convention during the same week ?

 

Sounds like a job for WIZARD!

[Bronty]

Comics have really held up well in this recession we're going through from what I've seen at shows, here on the boards, and at the major auction houses.

At least they seem to have until the last 2 or 3 months.

 

The last 4 or 5 months of 2008 and the first 4 or 5 months of 2009 have been relatively steady from what I see at shows. Down somewhat (maybe 15-25%) from the previous years, but not excessive considering the bad financial times we're going through.

 

But this summer I've noticed a real drop off in both attendance and the money being spent by those still attending. Every show I've attended since May, including the two or three biggest one day shows in our area (Atlanta , Hickory and our Charlotte Comicon) have seen declines in attendance. I would suspect Heroes Con attendance was down also. I know it was on Friday and Sunday.

 

The unemployment in our area is very high, a lot higher I would suspect than the

9 1/2 or 10 percent they are saying. Probably 15-25% is more in line with reality. Think it is pretty much this across the entire country.

 

If dealers are saying sales are down at SDCC, think that pretty much proves my point. If you are going to the biggest comic con in the world and not spending much money, it's probably because you can't. Or feel you better not at present.

 

Hopefully we'll see it turn up, but I don't think that will happen until people start getting jobs, and that may be a while off.

 

 

Yet, I've noticed that sales on eBay have remained steady, and prices are pretty decent overall. I rarely see new GPA highs set like I used to, but lately it seems my lowball bids have been outdone by not one, but 2-3 other people and that the final selling price is a healthy one.

 

I don't think its a stretch to assume that if you have a $500 comic budget (assuming you are one of those still gainfully employed, with no pending foreclosure or bankruptcy to worry about), that in these tough times you're going to want to stretch that budget as much as possible.

 

Driving to a show, even one that's only a few hours away, entails spending money on gas, parking, pricey admission ($25+ is the norm for even a one day ticket to a major show), expensive convention food, overpriced books from dealers who generally need to clear a few grand just to break even, etc., etc. Add in the unruly crowds, the annoying animae costumed kids, the likelihood that the dealers picked clean all the good stuff during set-up, and the fact it's still a cr@p-shoot as to whether you'll find what you're looking for, and staying home that weekend to cruise eBay or Comiclink doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

I've generally avoided going to Cons outside of Florida in the last years for all the reasons stated above. You're out $100 or more before you've even bought your first book. Add in a flight and hotel room, and its more like $300-$500. Now more then ever, if you're the "average" collector, making a trek to a Con just seems like its worthwhile for "the experience", not for the actual buying.

 

well said. I went to one SDCC and from here in canada I was out at least $1k with the travel/hotel/meals etc. Get there and you're killing yourself walking around an enormous room ogling books with high sticker prices. What's the point? You could avoid the sore feet and have a cool 1k book by just staying home.

[RockMyAmadeus]

The new Sasha Cohen movie, for example, died within a day of release, with a stunning 40% drop off in ticket sales between Friday and Saturday. That unprecedented decline was almost entirely due to negative word-of-mouth.

 

 

 

Cost to produce : $42 million

Gross revenues in 3 weeks : $81 million

 

 

 

Yeah Chuck - complete failure...................

 

Nearly every studio film must make double production costs (and recover advertising costs) in total box ofice to "break even." Theaters typically keep a little less than half the box office receipts, with the other half+ going to the studio. Most folks don't know that.

 

If Bruno were to not make another dollar, it would be a failure, as it is a net loss to Universal.

[COI]

Many of you want comcs to be exposed to newer audiences for the sake of the long term health of the hobby, yet you want a show like SDCC to get back to being about the books? You can't really have it both ways.

 

120,000 people walking past the dealers tables? Maybe. But we really don't know how many new collectors are being made, whether at a young age, or as adults, as a result of the SDCC. I have to think that it benefits the hobby as a whole much more than it hurts it, even if the dealers at the show aren't making a killing.

[otherworldsj33]

Old news, nothing new here about comics being squeezed out, as you guys said. It's a foregone conclusion that it's not a comic con anymore, and I personally don't even think I would care that much if the SDCC ceases to exist re the comic portion of it. Aside from the fond memories, and it's tradition/rich history, what does it really offer that we (collectors and dealers) can't do elsewhere? Buying/selling comics? Does anyone really wait anymore with great anticipation for the SDCC to do that? And it's a nice town, with summer weather, but we can do that in plenty of places. I like the social aspect of it, it's great to meet and greet old and new friends and fellow collectors, but again, that could be duplicated as a new show is developed and built up. Also with the net, the chat boards, we are constantly communicating, so even the social aspect of it is not quite the same as it once was. I would actually miss the energy and excitement of so many other offerings, and the other media, going on around me, the diversity only the SDCC can offer. It would be nice if comics could survive and thrive at this con, but it may be time to move on.

[Not*Sure*]

The last time I was at SDCC was a few years ago and THEN it was just ..bad..I had lots of fun the previous years running around socializing with dealers and artists picking up deals and bargaining. I like going to panels and discussion groups.

 

Then that last year I was there, I think it was Halle Berry who was there. There was an unbelievable line to hell and back to see her. I kept thinking..This is not what I come to the comic con for. People were acting crazy. Folks got beat up over some con promos. Hoards were fighting over a premium action figure. I don't wait in those lines. I have my own ways of getting around them. Honestly is it really worth smacking some greasey faced kid to get another batman figure?

It makes no sense at all to me for people to wait in a line around the block to see a movie star anyway.

 

Movie Stars belong in Hollywood, Comics belong at the comic book convention.

 

All those people waiting in line are not there to buy comic books. So they definitely are not helping the comics hobby by buying tickets because Paris Hilton may show up.

 

I can understand people showing up like Mark Hamill, Erin Grey, or Noell Neal, Even some wrestlers(WWE and WCW types) and musicians (Kiss or Gwar) have been in comic books. I do understand that Halle Berry has been in several comic book movies.

 

The large stifling crowds and the crowds of non comic book people really ruin a lot of the experience for me personally. It's hard to bend over and get into a long box with rude people constantly running into you.

 

I think that last year I was at SDCC I got run into or hit at least 4 times and that was not counting anytime I spent in a costume. I had actually had several people run into me hard and not even apologize. My costume had a large wingspan and I actually ended up deciding it served as a pretty good tool to thin the crowd around me. People had to move or get bapped in the face. It gave me a three feet circumference of personal space.

 

I may go to SD next year just because it is an anniversary of sorts for me. I still don't know if I could even attend the con at all (if I can walk). If I can't walk the convention floor would be totally out. I would just mainly go to celebrate with my friends anyway. I know someone who throws a pretty cool comic con in their hotel room at cons. I know there it will just be comic books and comic book fans. That is a pretty good set up when you think about it!!

[Leescomics]

Chuck nailed it.

 

This is the first year that I have not set up at Comic Con in 23 years.

 

What was it that made you stop?

 

It was for a variety of reasons, including some of the ones that Chuck mentioned. Basically, it was getting more and more expensive, and less fun.

 

[nearmint]

Chuck nailed it.

 

This is the first year that I have not set up at Comic Con in 23 years.

 

What was it that made you stop?

 

It was for a variety of reasons, including some of the ones that Chuck mentioned. Basically, it was getting more and more expensive, and less fun.

 

You were missed. I always thought your spinner rack of dollar comics was a good way to possibly attract new people to the hobby.

[capt_comics]

I think we shouldn't forget that one of the main reasons comics have stayed relevant as an art form and collectible, at least for the last 10 or 15 years, is the fact that Hollywood and the movies have put it on the front page for everyone to see.

 

I'm very proud that the all time grossing movies of all time are either science fiction,superhero or cartoon/animation related. The only three in the top twenty five that aren't are Titanic, The Passion of the Christ and Forrest Gump.

 

Think it proves what our generation has known all along. For entertainment value, it just can't be beat!! And let's be truthful, the baby boomers and Gen X are the reason this has happened.

 

Think we should not be too surprised that SDCC has turned out the way it is.

 

Just my

 

 

 

 

 

[nearmint]

There also seems to be a tendency to consider the Gold & Silver Age Pavilion as the "comics area" of the convention, without giving thought to the small press area, artists' alley, and the major publishers booths. I truly wonder if the square footage devoted to comics has actually dwindled over the years, or whether everything else has just grown around it.