MH Chuck's SDCC Lament

[MedicAR]

Chuck is right on the money. I was shocked on my first and only trip to SDCC in 2006 at how much of the show was geared toward films, games, anime, and toys and how little was geared toward comics. I also think they over-sell the show given the width of the aisles, so that everyone is jammed against each other the whole time.

 

Don't get me wrong, I had a great time, but it certainly could have been better. I used to work tradeshows for a freight company and have never seen a show packed as tightly as SDCC. I'm sure a big part of it is squeezing every dime out of every inch of floor space and from the organizer's side that makes perfect sense.

 

It is true that many of the exhibitors are there because they are or were related to comics at one time, but lets face facts: what does the new "Revenge of the Nerds" (did that ever happen, anyway?) movie have to do with comics? On the one hand it is fun to see all the huge displays and to see what the big companies are hyping, but that isn't why I wanted to go. I wanted to buy comics and to meet creators. I wanted to see what the small press people were putting out and see if I might find a new artist/writer/publisher/character to enjoy. I wanted to attend panels to hear creators talk about their past experiences and future projects. I would have heard of Pan's Labrynth regardless of whether they had a giant tree in the middle of Comic-Con.

 

I had hoped to make it again next year, but I'm leaning more and more toward NYCC or Heroes Con in an effort to keep it more comics related.

[nearmint]

I wanted to buy comics and to meet creators. I wanted to see what the small press people were putting out and see if I might find a new artist/writer/publisher/character to enjoy. I wanted to attend panels to hear creators talk about their past experiences and future projects.

 

All those things are still available to you in SD.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Chuck's problem is that all he sells are TPBs at 20% off of cover. Aren't there online sites that offer a bigger discount than that without the expense of attending the con?

 

He also has his computer terminals so people can buy his stuff online.

 

He used to do that... but not any more I think.

 

 

(From flickr: AV zombie. 2008 Comic-Con)

 

[/quote

Exactly,you can almost buy any recent tradepaperback at DCBS or Amazon at a much cheaper price, delivered right to your door, why would you go all the way to San Diego to buy them off Chuck?

[nearmint]

He must be selling a ton of books to even break even, considering the size of his booth(his booth is 3 or 4 times the size of Metropolis'), the number of employees he has with him, and the size of the inventory he brings.

 

He did offer a 30% discount if you bought 10 or more. 20% of you bought 5 or more.

[Ringfinger]

Here comes the 20% down 88% discount code!!!

[moonlite]

Well he did bring up a good question though. If the comic book dealers are squeezed out, will YOU go to the con? I wouldn't but that is my opinion.

[ChemEng]

Even without the comics, the con will still be popular. Hollywood will flock to anywhere that a lot of the young-adult and/or geek community congregates. And from the sounds of it, you have people who aren't even there for the comics now. There is no lack of people who just want to be part of the 'event', even if the big companies are ultimately just trying to sell them something. E3 used to be the same way, and I imagine there will always be something like this out in CA.

[fingfangfoom]

I found very few books off my want list.

 

 

I think that touches upon a little bit of what we are talking about here. You are part of the multi-media crowd. That's great, this show is exactly what you like. You go to SDCC, unable to fill your want list, and leave happy.

 

For those of us who attended this show in the mid to late 80's and into the early 90's this show was a premiere comic event. There wasn't a hassle with overpriced hotels, buying badges 8 months in advance, and dealing with the crowded conditions.

 

Dealers, both large and small, could afford booth space which resulted in a massive amount of books to choose from. Rarely were you unable to fill a want list.

 

 

I haven't made the trip back. 2006 was my last visit and when I returned from the show I took a hard look at my expenses versus my purchases and whether this show, as much of an event as it is, was worth it from the comic collector perspective. It wasn't.

 

In response to the terrible economy, if you were on the outside looking in and tracking auction activity at Comiclink, Heritage etc. you wouldn't think that we were in a severe downturn. To use the economy as an excuse for lower than normal sales at SDCC is a reach in light of the aggressive bidding we have seen at the auction houses the last 6 months.

 

 

[nearmint]

From my perspective, only the best of the best have been doing well in the last six months. Everything else has seen a dip. Not all dealers in SD can have the best of the best on-hand, so their performance at the show is more likely to mirror the hobby as a whole, not just the prices highest-graded copies have achieved.

 

The down-turn in the economy can't be disregarded. It's definitely had an affect.

[Silver Surfer]

Chuck's problem is that all he sells are TPBs at 20% off of cover. Aren't there online sites that offer a bigger discount than that without the expense of attending the con?

 

He also has his computer terminals so people can buy his stuff online.

 

He used to do that... but not any more I think.

 

 

(From flickr: AV zombie. 2008 Comic-Con)

 

[/quote

Exactly,you can almost buy any recent tradepaperback at DCBS or Amazon at a much cheaper price, delivered right to your door, why would you go all the way to San Diego to buy them off Chuck?

 

I'm sure people get caught up in the fury of the moment, they see all these great books on display that they can't afford so they buy trades. Also, people will just buy because they can have it right now instead of waiting for the mail to arrive whenever.

[sckao]

This is a good point. What Chuck has done (much like Comic Relief or Bud Plant) is set up a STORE within a convention. Each booth is a storefront, but those three are like Walmarts within the retail space.

 

I think many of his booth employees are hired just for the Con (as security). He brought a smaller contingent of permanent employees with him this year according to his reports.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[comicartcom]

1) Logistics - Let's see, artist alley features mostly comic book artists and dealers, then you have toy companies, the big studios, Marvel and DC mixed in with toy companies (and other media plays), then a few artist/art and toy related booths, then comics, then comics and toys, and finally tiny toy sellers. The whole layout made very little sense to me since you had the comic books separated from the artists that drew them.

 

If I were organizing the show floor, I would keep artist alley and the art dealers as is, then move in the comic/comic related retailers (one aisle up and down would probably do it, unfortunately) right next to the art area, then put DC/Image/Marvel/Darkhorse/etc. next, the big studios in the middle, followed by the smaller media outlets, then the big toy/movie memorabilia companies, and then the tiny retailers at the end like the currently are.

 

Artists Alley for many years was at the North end of the hall, where the comic dealers are now. We used to call it "the Artist's Ghetto". Now it's the Comics Ghetto. The difference of course is that when teh artists were at the North end, the dealers were right next to them. As an art dealer who set up there for almost 3 decades, when they moved us to the North Ghetto and the artists to teh South ghetto, the message couldn't have been clearer: we want the choice locations for the other people, not you - regardless of whether you actually used to have the best spots in the room because of your seniority.

 

For art dealers, the move was a stick in the you-know-what. Buyers who went to the artists alley now most likely never returned because it was 1/4 mile away and you as a dealer had a harder time trying to deal with the artists because you had to be near your booths.

 

San Diego Comic Con??? What a misnomer that title has become. Comics make up a small portion of the show and the real answer is not to bring the show here to Vegas.. it's to bring the Hollywood portion to Los Angeles and turn the remainder back into the SDCC.. But reality bites - the party is over, for us at least.

 

Chuck is correct that the show is now a Disneyland type experience for most people sans rides. I stopped setting up after 2003 when they moved us. Beth Holley can kiss my rump and my feelings about John and Fay is that they have no loyalty to the people who helped them get where they are now.

 

It was fun while it lasted.. I have moved on to greener pastures.

 

about a show here in Vegas.. I'm not sure it could be a success or not, but I don't care one way or the other. Even if they moved here, I wouldn't be interested in setting up. My last show in SDCC cost me $9000+ to exhibit at. Even here in Vegas it would cost me at least $6000 to have what I had then. Not interested. To break even on expenses alone I have to sell something on the order of $15-20,000 (that's $6k for expenses and then the cost of replacing merchandise). The reality is I just sit in my office and list auctions on my own movie poster site (I no longer need fleaBay either) every Weds and seeing as I have no costs except web hosting & my programmer, my costs of selling is almost nil. If I do $20,000 here this week, the monies that would have gone to SDCC go in my pocket - where they belong.

 

About the dealer's reports: I haven't heard one dealer tell me they did well this year. They no longer do casual sales to non-comics buyers who pass by their booths because these people enter at the South end and never pass by their booths as they used to do before 2003 when all attendees had to filter past the comics people to get to the movies exhibits. in 2003 when I was moved from the head of row 2000 to the head of row 300, my sales dipped 75%. It didn't affect everyone that way, but it did affect many. I saw the writing on the wall then..

 

Comics people like myself, Bud Plant, Redbeard and Chuck who were all high on the seniority list in 2003 mean nothing to the SDCC heads. They have turned their backs on the comics people in favor of... money. The peaceful co-existence we had prior to 2003 has been destroyed in favor of companies that had shunned SDCC for almost 30 years and have now, taken over.

 

C'est la vie.

 

Will it get better for comics dealers?? You have to be nuts to think so.

 

Rich

[comicartcom]

From my perspective, only the best of the best have been doing well in the last six months. Everything else has seen a dip. Not all dealers in SD can have the best of the best on-hand, so their performance at the show is more likely to mirror the hobby as a whole, not just the prices highest-graded copies have achieved.

 

NM is right.. if you only look at the 5% of the hobby that is robust - like Action #1sw and CGC 9.6+ - you miss the overall picture. Anyone who thinks comics can buck the recession knows little about economics. Action #1 will always sell very well.. Punch & Judy or Strange Worlds.. these will slowly decline as will almost all golden age titles below 8.0 - even Superman and Marvel Mystery.

 

Keep in mind: if a copy of Superman #50 is $500 now and it is $600 in 5 years - that is a money loser. In a simple bank account you would do better. There are lots of comics and art that are going to be money losers because their audience is deteriorating. At the same time you have crazy people paying incredible prices for silver age 9.4s and above. They aren't buying silver age 6.0s however, so those will wither and once those 20 or so guys stop buying, you will see a crash like never before..

[nearmint]

This is a really depressing thread.

[the blob]

Keep in mind: if a copy of Superman #50 is $500 now and it is $600 in 5 years - that is a money loser. In a simple bank account you would do better.

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really? compound 2.5% interest on $500 fo 5 years. i get $565. of course, that $500 could be $375 if you invested at the wrong time in the stock market of $250 if you bought real estate at the wrong time. everything is relative.

 

i don't see much of a difference in the ebay bargain hunters now vs. 3 years ago. everyone was looking for a deal on the non-prime stuff then and everyone is doing the same now. sure, people probably aren't buying as much now, but they're buying. i have to say, recently at least, i have been getting a lot of respectfull "best offers" that i have no problem accepting and i reciprocate when people do not jerk me around by including more free stuff than i used to.

[comicartcom]

only if you don't look at the big picture of life.. Comics isn't everything

[comicartcom]

Keep in mind: if a copy of Superman #50 is $500 now and it is $600 in 5 years - that is a money loser. In a simple bank account you would do better.

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really? compound 2.5% interest on $500 fo 5 years. i get $565. of course, that $500 could be $375 if you invested at the wrong time in the stock market of $250 if you bought real estate at the wrong time. everything is relative.

 

i don't see much of a difference in the ebay bargain hunters now vs. 3 years ago. everyone was looking for a deal on the non-prime stuff then and everyone is doing the same now. sure, people probably aren't buying as much now, but they're buying. i have to say, recently at least, i have been getting a lot of respectfull "best offers" that i have no problem accepting and i reciprocate when people do not jerk me around by including more free stuff than i used to.

 

2.5%?? savings account interest at 2.5% is a waste of time and if you shop around, you should be able to get 5%. In good times up to 8%

[MedicAR]

I wanted to buy comics and to meet creators. I wanted to see what the small press people were putting out and see if I might find a new artist/writer/publisher/character to enjoy. I wanted to attend panels to hear creators talk about their past experiences and future projects.

 

 

All those things are still available to you in SD.

 

Absolutely. But I would prefer not to have to yell over the explosions coming from the Hollywood studios' booths that are promoting their blockbuster that is still a year or two away. I did have a great time, but I would hesitate to call the show family friendly. I may have naive perspective, but I thought part of this hobby was being friendly towards kids so as to draw in new fans and readers to keep the hobby and industry alive. Near-brawls over freebies isn't something I want my son to see. I know that could happen anywhere, but I've seen more reports every year at SDCC. Like I said before, I get a better vibe from and think I would rather attend Heroes or NYCC.

[MedicAR]

Well he did bring up a good question though. If the comic book dealers are squeezed out, will YOU go to the con? I wouldn't but that is my opinion.

 

Personally, no. I would rather go to a show that is more comics oriented and the dealers are a big part of that.

[MedicAR]

From my perspective, only the best of the best have been doing well in the last six months. Everything else has seen a dip. Not all dealers in SD can have the best of the best on-hand, so their performance at the show is more likely to mirror the hobby as a whole, not just the prices highest-graded copies have achieved.

 

The down-turn in the economy can't be disregarded. It's definitely had an affect.

 

My LCS owner said he was finally seeing some effects of the downturn. He had bragged about how his orders were still slowly but steadily increasing every month and that his TPB/HCs were solid and steady sellers. He said his last two big batches of TPBs have hardly moved

 

He is easily the best in a 50 mile or more radius and is still seeing lower sales.