Stan Lee

[JohnT]

Does Herbe Trimpe ever take credit for creating Wolverine?

 

[AtlasFan]

I can only judge the man by the two minutes I spent with him. He is a jerk, and uncaring about his fan base. He cares little about the comic books and believes those that take them serious in any manner whatsoever, are nuts. He believes that anyone who collects them, follows them, or likes them are silly.

 

He made this "VOOOOM" and "GOLUM" stuff up, mostly just being silly, and us silly peons loved it.

 

At least this was my impression of "The Man" from my two minutes with him in 1988. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he has changed, but I don't think so from what I have read.

 

Just to set the record straight...its VANDOOM and GOOM -- 2 very refined and respected pre-hero monsters...I would be shocked...shocked if Stan had not gotten the names right.

[Flemmings]

In the 60's we needed these new characters so I think that is why they were so well accepted. Now there are so many good characters out there from Marvel, DC and other companies that for something to take off it has got to be quite unique.

 

If the FF were created today, I don't think they would be as much a success and quite a few other characters also.

 

Does Herbe Trimpe ever take credit for creating Wolverine?

 

So many people had their hands in the pot when creating Wolverine that no one person could take sole credit even if they wanted to.

[Flemmings]

 

He made this "VOOOOM" and "GOLUM" stuff up, mostly just being silly, and us silly peons loved it.

 

 

I think the comment is a little unfair. Comics at the time were directed towards kids, so most of it is silly. When TMNT was created it was a parody of Daredevil. I don't think they expected people to eat it up they way people did.

 

[MedicAR]

In the 60's we needed these new characters so I think that is why they were so well accepted. Now there are so many good characters out there from Marvel, DC and other companies that for something to take off it has got to be quite unique.

 

If the FF were created today, I don't think they would be as much a success and quite a few other characters also.

 

Does Herbe Trimpe ever take credit for creating Wolverine?

 

You hit the nail on the head with that one. They have name recognition now, otherwise I don't think they would last very long.

 

To be fair, I never imagined Spawn would make it past issue #10, so there is the occassional exception that proves the rule. Savage Dragon also falls under the same category. A big difference in those two is that they were launched to much hooplah with established creators.

 

Prior to EC, did anyone ever take pride in their creative staff?

[UnRested Spectre]

Hiyo!

 

Here is a perfect understanding of the relationship of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Dikto...

 

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

Marvel = Apokolips

Stan Lee = Darkseid

Jack Kirby = Metron

Steve Dikto = Kalibak (... or Desaad)

 

I can go in to detail... if you do not understand the relationship I am trying to portray.

[Flemmings]

Hiyo!

 

Here is a perfect understanding of the relationship of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Dikto...

 

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

Marvel = Apokolips

Stan Lee = Darkseid

Jack Kirby = Metron

Steve Dikto = Kalibak (... or Desaad)

 

I can go in to detail... if you do not understand the relationship I am trying to portray.

 

I don't read DC. So I don't understand.

[Excelsior!-migration]

After watching Stan on the Youtube vid, i have to ask who is the actual creator..the one that comes up with the idea or the one who runs with the idea? Stan thought up Spider-man and Ditko drew up a kid in spider tights, but without Stan, Ditko wouldve probably never thought to put that kid in those tights. So I would say that Stan created the idea and Ditko expanded on it, but was not the creator.

 

That is the way I see it as well. The concept of Spider-Man might have failed without Ditko, but without the Stan Lee's concept there would be no Spider-Man.

[UnRested Spectre]

Hiyo!

 

Here is a perfect understanding of the relationship of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Dikto...

 

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

Marvel = Apokolips

Stan Lee = Darkseid

Jack Kirby = Metron

Steve Dikto = Kalibak (... or Desaad)

 

I can go in to detail... if you do not understand the relationship I am trying to portray.

 

I don't read DC. So I don't understand.

Hiyo!

 

Really? Ugh!

 

No knowledge of Jack Kirby's New Gods of the Third World or other related series?

Hands down some of the greatest creations by Jack Kirby!

 

Here is a little run-down:

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

(Think of it like this: Good (Light) side of the Yin and Yang)

 

Marvel = Apokolips

(Think of it like this: Bad (... or Dark) side of the Yin and Yang)

 

Stan Lee = Darkseid

(Without going into a origin: Surrealist, Strategist, Technology Enthusiast, Dark, Evil and Ruler of Apokolips with an ruthless ironfist after sudden deaths of his older family members by his hand)

 

Jack Kirby = Metron

(Without a huge origin lesson: Philosopher and a high-mind thinker. Obsessive and meticulous with learning and wanting to create. He was also like the "scottish clan of *McCullen", but was not given credit for his work nor cared most times.)

 

Steve Dikto = Kalibak or Desaad

(In according to Kalibak: Step-son of Darkseid, never got any respect, never got any true acknowledgement, was also considered petty, stupid, consider to be more worthless then the lowest paratrooper, and would never earn the inheritance of being the ruler of Apokolips even though was his only son.)

 

(... or Desaad: Left evil and twisted-hand of Darkseid. He is *S&M, if you know what I mean. Highly intelligent as he is grotesques. Brings the dark machinations of Darkseid thoughts to plan and action, but would never dared (Though does try) take credit for the success or failure for fear of the might of Darkseid whether in success though does in failure.)

 

What does this all mean?

 

Stan "The Man" Lee got to the top carefully through meticulous planning and patience in wait to strike the iron until its hot so that he be able to bend all to his will. Stan "The Man" Lee may had the ideas, but was not able to put pen to paper (supposively) and there lie in tales of... "Who was the true work-horse of Marvel, the House of Ideals?"

 

Jack Kirby is a comic purest (IMO) and probably did not care too much for the politics (Probably was more vocal on the set deadlines then anything else) in comics, but had a true pure love for creating and telling magnificent stories. Steve Dikto was probably the same but probably was not as optimistic as Jack was. Steve Dikto probably thought and (maybe) knew that if he did not "play ball" that he would be dumped and Stan would just throw it into the (probably) huge project piles he had for Jack Kirby to do. Stan "The Man" Lee would probably not think-twice about taking on the duties of Spiderman or other projects Dikto was currently on during that time and give them over to either himself or Jack.

 

(IMO: Jack Kirby seemed like the only one doing all the books during his time with Marvel)

[AtlasFan]

Hiyo!

 

Here is a perfect understanding of the relationship of Stan Lee, Jack Kirby and Steve Dikto...

 

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

Marvel = Apokolips

Stan Lee = Darkseid

Jack Kirby = Metron

Steve Dikto = Kalibak (... or Desaad)

 

I can go in to detail... if you do not understand the relationship I am trying to portray.

 

I don't read DC. So I don't understand.

Hiyo!

 

Really? Ugh!

 

No knowledge of Jack Kirby's New Gods of the Third World or other related series?

Hands down some of the greatest creations by Jack Kirby!

 

Here is a little run-down:

DC = New Genesis/Hero City

(Think of it like this: Good (Light) side of the Yin and Yang)

 

Marvel = Apokolips

(Think of it like this: Bad (... or Dark) side of the Yin and Yang)

 

Stan Lee = Darkseid

(Without going into a origin: Surrealist, Strategist, Technology Enthusiast, Dark, Evil and Ruler of Apokolips with an ruthless ironfist after sudden deaths of his older family members by his hand)

 

Jack Kirby = Metron

(Without a huge origin lesson: Philosopher and a high-mind thinker. Obsessive and meticulous with learning and wanting to create. He was also like the "scottish clan of *McCullen", but was not given credit for his work nor cared most times.)

 

Steve Dikto = Kalibak or Desaad

(In according to Kalibak: Step-son of Darkseid, never got any respect, never got any true acknowledgement, was also considered petty, stupid, consider to be more worthless then the lowest paratrooper, and would never earn the inheritance of being the ruler of Apokolips even though was his only son.)

 

(... or Desaad: Left evil and twisted-hand of Darkseid. He is *S&M, if you know what I mean. Highly intelligent as he is grotesques. Brings the dark machinations of Darkseid thoughts to plan and action, but would never dared (Though does try) take credit for the success or failure for fear of the might of Darkseid whether in success though does in failure.)

 

What does this all mean?

 

Stan "The Man" Lee got to the top carefully through meticulous planning and patience in wait to strike the iron until its hot so that he be able to bend all to his will. Stan "The Man" Lee may had the ideas, but was not able to put pen to paper (supposively) and there lie in tales of... "Who was the true work-horse of Marvel, the House of Ideals?"

 

Jack Kirby is a comic purest (IMO) and probably did not care too much for the politics (Probably was more vocal on the set deadlines then anything else) in comics, but had a true pure love for creating and telling magnificent stories. Steve Dikto was probably the same but probably was not as optimistic as Jack was. Steve Dikto probably thought and (maybe) knew that if he did not "play ball" that he would be dumped and Stan would just throw it into the (probably) huge project piles he had for Jack Kirby to do. Stan "The Man" Lee would probably not think-twice about taking on the duties of Spiderman or other projects Dikto was currently on during that time and give them over to either himself or Jack.

 

(IMO: Jack Kirby seemed like the only one doing all the books during his time with Marvel)

 

I'm the biggest Kirby fan out there -- the stuff he did in the 50s and early 60s is beyond words...but I just cant get into his whole Fourth World mythos...and I tried...really did. In the end, I concluded that it was all just a shapeless glob -- a convoluted clap-trap of contrived storylines...

 

After long-time Kirby arch-foe editor Jack Schiff left DC, Kirby was swayed into jumping ship from Marvel. I remember all the "Kirby's Coming" hype that ran across every DC comic for months leading up to his arrival.

 

When Jack finally arrived, I think fans were very disappointed in the Fourth World...too many high-falooting cosmic characters that no one could relate to... The central characters were always in absolutes (Darkseid=absolute evil, Orion=absolute good). I think he tried too hard to show readers that he could plot and write as well as illustrate. And, these new characters did NOT mix well with DC's other long established heroes.

 

So what happened? After a year or so, DC killed all the Fourth World books. Kirby regrouped and ended up doing titles like Green Team, OMAC, Kamandi, etc.. and by the mid-70s he slunk back to Marvel with his tail between his legs. It would have been much better if he had left comics totally in the early 70s and had gone into animation layouts sooner (like Alex Toth).

 

After he went back to Marvel he was marginalized and finally just faded away. Quite a shame.

 

 

[Mutant Manatee]

So what happened? After a year or so, DC killed all the Fourth World books. Kirby regrouped and ended up doing titles like Green Team, OMAC, Kamandi, etc..

 

 

Don't forget the Dingbats of Danger Street.

 

[JohnT]

I can only judge the man by the two minutes I spent with him. He is a jerk, and uncaring about his fan base. He cares little about the comic books and believes those that take them serious in any manner whatsoever, are nuts. He believes that anyone who collects them, follows them, or likes them are silly.

 

He made this "VOOOOM" and "GOLUM" stuff up, mostly just being silly, and us silly peons loved it.

 

At least this was my impression of "The Man" from my two minutes with him in 1988. Maybe he had a bad day. Maybe he has changed, but I don't think so from what I have read.

 

Watch this short interview and see what you think. This is how I think Stan really views it...

 

 

Did anyone watch this video I linked?

 

Anyone?

 

[Flemmings]

I watched it, when either you posted it earlier or someone else posted it earlier in the thread.

[MedicAR]

I watched it back when I posted it.

[JohnT]

I watched it back when I posted it.

 

I obviously didn't watch in when you posted it.

[MedicAR]

I'm the biggest Kirby fan out there -- the stuff he did in the 50s and early 60s is beyond words...but I just cant get into his whole Fourth World mythos...and I tried...really did. In the end, I concluded that it was all just a shapeless glob -- a convoluted clap-trap of contrived storylines...

 

After long-time Kirby arch-foe editor Jack Schiff left DC, Kirby was swayed into jumping ship from Marvel. I remember all the "Kirby's Coming" hype that ran across every DC comic for months leading up to his arrival.

 

When Jack finally arrived, I think fans were very disappointed in the Fourth World...too many high-falooting cosmic characters that no one could relate to... The central characters were always in absolutes (Darkseid=absolute evil, Orion=absolute good). I think he tried too hard to show readers that he could plot and write as well as illustrate. And, these new characters did NOT mix well with DC's other long established heroes.

 

So what happened? After a year or so, DC killed all the Fourth World books. Kirby regrouped and ended up doing titles like Green Team, OMAC, Kamandi, etc.. and by the mid-70s he slunk back to Marvel with his tail between his legs. It would have been much better if he had left comics totally in the early 70s and had gone into animation layouts sooner (like Alex Toth).

 

After he went back to Marvel he was marginalized and finally just faded away. Quite a shame.

 

 

Not so fast there, Sparky!

 

I tried the Fourth World when I was younger, say late teens and early twenties, and I didn't care for it either. Like you said, it was just a convoluted mess. I re-read it a couple of years ago and actually liked it. I need to find my copy of Hunger Dogs and re-read it all again.

 

Now, I can't defend OMAC, or Green Team, but Kamandi has managed to stick around and I actually like the first 6-12 issues (I'm working from memory). It got weird without a doubt, but it started out good.

 

I think this is where Jack needed Stan to make the stories more relatable to the readers. There was just a special chemistry......

[MedicAR]

I watched it back when I posted it.

 

I obviously didn't watch in when you posted it.

 

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Marvel sales actually went up with Romita Sr and John Buscema replacing Ditko and Kirby. Stan was and still is a great business man. Comic artists need businessmen and vice versa. The two are interwined. Stan needed Kirby and Ditko, Ditko and Kirby needed Stan Lee.

[MedicAR]

Marvel sales actually went up with Romita Sr and John Buscema replacing Ditko and Kirby. Stan was and still is a great business man. Comic artists need businessmen and vice versa. The two are interwined. Stan needed Kirby and Ditko, Ditko and Kirby needed Stan Lee.

 

This is true. (thumbs u

[Excelsior!-migration]

Was there any character failures with Stan Lee as the writer and Kirby or Ditko as the artist in the early years of Marvel Comics? We know the successes like Spider-man, Fantastic Four, X-Men etc... If there were failures, who got the blame? Anyone?