NFS

[comicartcom]

for any person wishing to ask me about what I will take for pieces in my collection marked NFS, the price is $1,000,000

 

concerning James post above.. I don't agree with a single word of it.

 

if someone walks up to me and asks if I want to buy his art, he should have a price - but I will make you an offer if you want to go that way.

If I wish to sell, I have a price on what I am selling

If I don't wish to sell and you want to buy, you must make an offer that makes me consider changing my position

 

anything else is hogwash

[Meeley Man]

And I 1,000,000% agree with rich who agrees with Hari. Not much more to add, but if it's NFS, the onus is on the the other guy to make me want to sell that which is not for sale. I actually don't even understand the other point of view.

 

Scott Williams

 

the onus IS on the owner to let that potential buyer know just what will be expected of them. .

 

no no no

 

if a piece is mine, whether its comic art, comic books, or bellybutton lint, if I don't feel like pricing it, I don't have to. Its perfectly within my rights as a seller to say "make me an offer."

 

But YOU have all the power, infomation and the item itself. YOU hold all the cards. Thus the onus is on YOU to provide information to a potential buyer, so they can know what will be expected of them, if they want to obtain this "NFS" item.

 

If you don't feel like pricing it, then you just say "Sorry, not for sale at any price." Once you open the door to offers, YOU have accepted the responsibilites that come with all the power you hold.

 

It's not a difficult thing here, folks. If you don't want to price a NFS item, then you stick with it being NFS. That's it. If you want to allow offers, then YOU are the one who need to "do their homework" and be prepared to give out the info a potential buyer will need to make you a worthwhile offer. Otherwise, any lowball offers are on YOUR head, not theirs, and you've no right to complain or condesend about those buyers. YOU put them in that position, by opening the offer gate to a NFS item, then by not giving them the proper information to make an educated offer to you. Simple as that.

 

You don't have to like it, but that's the facts. Deal with it.

[stinkininkin]

And I 1,000,000% agree with rich who agrees with Hari. Not much more to add, but if it's NFS, the onus is on the the other guy to make me want to sell that which is not for sale. I actually don't even understand the other point of view.

 

Scott Williams

 

Than allow me to explain:

 

If NFS mean "not for sale," then that is what you tell anyone who asks if it is. Simple as that. "Sorry, this is not for sale at any price." The potnetial buyer now knows there is no chance to obtain it and can move on to other things. No time is wasted and their hopes are not raised, only to be dashed.

 

If NFS mean "not for sale, but I'll entertain crazy money offers," then the onus IS on the owner to let that potential buyer know just what will be expected of them. There are always new people coming into this hobby and know little about the market value and worth of some pieces. As the owner has that info, it is paramount to them to let that potential buyer know it, as well, if they leave the possibility of a sale open, by suggesting they make an offer. Doing so and not giving that potnatial buyer the infomation they need to make an educated offer, it simply playing games with the emotions of that potenial buyer, IMO. You are leading them on to think there is a chance they can own it, even though it says "not for sale," but giving them no idea of the guidelines involved in making that happen.

 

I see everyone is saying that the potential buyer should be prepared to make a "sock my socks off" offer, but what exactly is that? What might "knock off" one person's socks, won't for another. The buyer's idea of that, might greatly differ from the owner's. It is a very vague and undefined determination, which would seem to rely on the buyer being a fool who will offer up ungodly amounts of money to the owner. If any business were to try such things, they've either go out of business or be reprimanded in the face of business laws. Such things are pratically abusive treatment of the consumer base. If somone is new to the hobby and doesn't have the experience of market values, how are they to know what will "knock your socks off?" Add to this, things like our current economic woes and lowball offers on "NFS" pieces is practically an inevability. And to hear such callous nonsense like "I was lowballed by this guy, so I'll never sell to him or even open another email by him" is a sickening attitude to see coming from experienced collectors, which makes a sad statement on this community as a whole.

 

So, yes, the onus is on owners of a NFS piece, if they want to open the option of offers on such items. Otherwise, just tell someone "not for sale at ANY price" and let them move on. Playing games and using someone's inexperience to try and milk them for big bucks, while playing off their hopes, is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever heard coming from some of the most experienced collectors in this hobby. Just be honest and provide the information needed for the potential buyer to make an educated offer. Otherwise, NFS should mean "not for sale at ANY price." Anything else is simply morally abhorent.

 

Ok, you've already heard my view on this, and I now know yours. I've been on enough message boards to know that when people start talking about "sickening" and "disgusting" attitudes and being accused of "morally abhorrent" behavior, nothing other than a flame war can result. You disagree with me. Strongly. I disagree with you. Strongly. I'm now agreeing to disagree, and leave it at that.

 

Scott Williams

[Bronty]

And I 1,000,000% agree with rich who agrees with Hari. Not much more to add, but if it's NFS, the onus is on the the other guy to make me want to sell that which is not for sale. I actually don't even understand the other point of view.

 

Scott Williams

 

Playing games and using someone's inexperience to try and milk them for big bucks, while playing off their hopes, is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever heard coming from some of the most experienced collectors in this hobby. Just be honest and provide the information needed for the potential buyer to make an educated offer. Otherwise, NFS should mean "not for sale at ANY price." Anything else is simply morally abhorent.

 

Playing on inexperience and asking for offers are two different things. Sometimes they intertwine I will grant but listing a piece as "NFS" is hardly taking advantage or morally abhorrent (I mean please). The potential seller isn't anticipating an offer and may not even know the buyer's experience or inexperience level. Perhaps you had some scenarios where you felt you were taken advantage of and that's unfortunate but ultimately no one is putting a gun to your head. Why are you even offering if you don't have a clue what something is worth or what you are willing to pay for it. If a buyer wants the seller to do all the work they should stick to ebay, heritage, clink, etc and not waste other CAF members' time.

[Meeley Man]

If I don't wish to sell and you want to buy, you must make an offer that makes me consider changing my position

 

anything else is hogwash

 

If you don't wish to sell, then DON'T. It's real easy.

 

If you want to open the "offers gate," then be prepared to give that potential buyer the info they need to make a proper one. Otherwise, if you are lowballed, it's no one fault but your own. Period!

 

Anything else is hogwash.

[Bronty]

And I 1,000,000% agree with rich who agrees with Hari. Not much more to add, but if it's NFS, the onus is on the the other guy to make me want to sell that which is not for sale. I actually don't even understand the other point of view.

 

Scott Williams

 

Than allow me to explain:

 

If NFS mean "not for sale," then that is what you tell anyone who asks if it is. Simple as that. "Sorry, this is not for sale at any price." The potnetial buyer now knows there is no chance to obtain it and can move on to other things. No time is wasted and their hopes are not raised, only to be dashed.

 

If NFS mean "not for sale, but I'll entertain crazy money offers," then the onus IS on the owner to let that potential buyer know just what will be expected of them. There are always new people coming into this hobby and know little about the market value and worth of some pieces. As the owner has that info, it is paramount to them to let that potential buyer know it, as well, if they leave the possibility of a sale open, by suggesting they make an offer. Doing so and not giving that potnatial buyer the infomation they need to make an educated offer, it simply playing games with the emotions of that potenial buyer, IMO. You are leading them on to think there is a chance they can own it, even though it says "not for sale," but giving them no idea of the guidelines involved in making that happen.

 

I see everyone is saying that the potential buyer should be prepared to make a "sock my socks off" offer, but what exactly is that? What might "knock off" one person's socks, won't for another. The buyer's idea of that, might greatly differ from the owner's. It is a very vague and undefined determination, which would seem to rely on the buyer being a fool who will offer up ungodly amounts of money to the owner. If any business were to try such things, they've either go out of business or be reprimanded in the face of business laws. Such things are pratically abusive treatment of the consumer base. If somone is new to the hobby and doesn't have the experience of market values, how are they to know what will "knock your socks off?" Add to this, things like our current economic woes and lowball offers on "NFS" pieces is practically an inevability. And to hear such callous nonsense like "I was lowballed by this guy, so I'll never sell to him or even open another email by him" is a sickening attitude to see coming from experienced collectors, which makes a sad statement on this community as a whole.

 

So, yes, the onus is on owners of a NFS piece, if they want to open the option of offers on such items. Otherwise, just tell someone "not for sale at ANY price" and let them move on. Playing games and using someone's inexperience to try and milk them for big bucks, while playing off their hopes, is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever heard coming from some of the most experienced collectors in this hobby. Just be honest and provide the information needed for the potential buyer to make an educated offer. Otherwise, NFS should mean "not for sale at ANY price." Anything else is simply morally abhorent.

 

Ok, you've already heard my view on this, and I now know yours. I've been on enough message boards to know that when people start talking about "sickening" and "disgusting" attitudes and being accused of "morally abhorrent" behavior, nothing other than a flame war can result. You disagree with me. Strongly. I disagree with you. Strongly. I'm now agreeing to disagree, and leave it at that.

 

Scott Williams

 

well said, this is going to go nowhere.

[Meeley Man]

And I 1,000,000% agree with rich who agrees with Hari. Not much more to add, but if it's NFS, the onus is on the the other guy to make me want to sell that which is not for sale. I actually don't even understand the other point of view.

 

Scott Williams

 

Playing games and using someone's inexperience to try and milk them for big bucks, while playing off their hopes, is probably the most disgusting thing I've ever heard coming from some of the most experienced collectors in this hobby. Just be honest and provide the information needed for the potential buyer to make an educated offer. Otherwise, NFS should mean "not for sale at ANY price." Anything else is simply morally abhorent.

 

Playing on inexperience and asking for offers are two different things. Sometimes they intertwine I will grant but listing a piece as "NFS" is hardly taking advantage or morally abhorrent (I mean please). The potential seller isn't anticipating an offer and may not even know the buyer's experience or inexperience level. Perhaps you had some scenarios where you felt you were taken advantage of and that's unfortunate but ultimately no one is putting a gun to your head. Why are you even offering if you don't have a clue what something is worth or what you are willing to pay for it. If a buyer only wants to pay retail they should stick to ebay, heritage, clink, etc and not waste other CAF members' time.

 

So, dealing with CAF members is only worthwhile, if you feel like throwing out ungodly amounts of cash? Well, I guess that's good to know. Although, given what I've seen said about the practices of some dealers, it would seem to infer that they take their cue from CAF members. Kinda makes it hard to see those who complain about such dealers as little more than hypocrites, doesn't it?

 

As for why someone would ask, without knowing the market value, well, gee, I don't know. Maybe because the piece has some special significance to them? Maybe some nostalgia vibe? Maybe as a gift to a friend who they know would like it? Maybe it just looks really cool? The reasons are legion. It doesn't mean they should be toyed with in the manner I've seen advocated here.

 

If it isn't for sale, then just say it. Why would you waste your time opening the "offers gate," if you have no intention to sell? Isn't THAT the true waste of time? And one easily avoided, just by saying, "Sorry, it's NFS at any price." All you need to do is be honest and forthright and most of the lowball offers would simply go away. Why would you think that is a waste of time, unless you are into playing games with others?

[Meeley Man]

You disagree with me. Strongly. I disagree with you. Strongly. I'm now agreeing to disagree, and leave it at that.

 

Scott Williams

 

That's fine. I can accept that. Thank you.

[comicartcom]

If I don't wish to sell and you want to buy, you must make an offer that makes me consider changing my position

 

anything else is hogwash

 

If you don't wish to sell, then DON'T. It's real easy.

 

If you want to open the "offers gate," then be prepared to give that potential buyer the info they need to make a proper one. Otherwise, if you are lowballed, it's no one fault but your own. Period!

 

Anything else is hogwash.

 

 

James.. you entire position and reasoning on this issue is:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOGWASH

[malvin]

 

 

You don't have to like it, but that's the facts. Deal with it.

 

Well, I am talking to myself here since someone blocked me for disagreeing with him.

 

But it made me chuckle when someone says his opinions are facts, especially when he is the only one expressing it.

 

Malvin

[comicartcom]

oh Bronty.. thanks for the compliment on the Wood piece.. by square inches it has to be the largest Wood illustration out there

[comicartcom]

 

 

You don't have to like it, but that's the facts. Deal with it.

 

Well, I am talking to myself here since someone blocked me for disagreeing with him.

 

But it made me chuckle when someone says his opinions are facts, especially when he is the only one expressing it.

 

Malvin

 

Malvin, are you saying that James blocked you for disagreeing with him??

If that's the case, it sure sounds childish.

[Meeley Man]

If I don't wish to sell and you want to buy, you must make an offer that makes me consider changing my position

 

anything else is hogwash

 

If you don't wish to sell, then DON'T. It's real easy.

 

If you want to open the "offers gate," then be prepared to give that potential buyer the info they need to make a proper one. Otherwise, if you are lowballed, it's no one fault but your own. Period!

 

Anything else is hogwash.

 

 

James.. you entire position and reasoning on this issue is:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

HOGWASH

 

Only to those who like playing games with people.

 

Paging the Donnelly brothers.... paging the Donnelly brothers....

[Meeley Man]

 

 

You don't have to like it, but that's the facts. Deal with it.

 

Well, I am talking to myself here since someone blocked me for disagreeing with him.

 

But it made me chuckle when someone says his opinions are facts, especially when he is the only one expressing it.

 

Malvin

 

Malvin, are you saying that James blocked you for disagreeing with him??

If that's the case, it sure sounds childish.

 

Actually, he's blocked because of his insultingly jerkish behavior towards me and I simply have no time for such people.

 

The fact I'm being disagreed with here by others, yet still talking to them, should show you what the truth really is.

[Nexus]

James,

 

Regarding all the pieces in your gallery marked "NFS":

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3287

 

Are ALL of them "not for sale at ANY price"? I doubt it. So tell me which ones are potentially available and what you want for them. I don't know the market values, I don't care to do the research, I just want you to tell me. Remember, you have all the power, so don't play with my emotions.

 

Chop, chop.

 

Felix

 

 

[comicartcom]

James,

 

Regarding all the pieces in your gallery marked "NFS":

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3287

 

Are ALL of them "not for sale at ANY price"? I doubt it. So tell me which ones are potentially available and what you want for them. I don't know the market values, I don't care to do the research, I just want you to tell me. Remember, you have all the power, so don't play with my emotions.

 

Chop, chop.

 

Felix

 

 

 

 

 

[Meeley Man]

James,

 

Regarding all the pieces in your gallery marked "NFS":

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3287

 

Are ALL of them "not for sale at ANY price"? I doubt it. So tell me which ones are potentially available and what you want for them. I don't know the market values, I don't care to do the research, I just want you to tell me. Remember, you have all the power, so don't play with my emotions.

 

Chop, chop.

 

Felix

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, all my pieces listed NFS are "not for sale at any price." If I do ever change my mind, they will be marked for sale, with a price and open to offers listed on them (i.e. instead of NFS it will say something like "$250.00 or best offer").

 

See, I don't like wasting the time of a potnetial buyer and myself, or getting tons of lowball offers, so I do what is honest and forthright to prevent such things. And it is really amazingly easy to do, too.

[comicartcom]

James,

 

Regarding all the pieces in your gallery marked "NFS":

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3287

 

Are ALL of them "not for sale at ANY price"? I doubt it. So tell me which ones are potentially available and what you want for them. I don't know the market values, I don't care to do the research, I just want you to tell me. Remember, you have all the power, so don't play with my emotions.

 

Chop, chop.

 

Felix

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, all my pieces listed NFS are "not for sale at any price." If I do ever change my mind, they will be marked for sale, with a price and open to offers listed on them (i.e. instead of NFS it will say something like "$250.00 or best offer").

 

See, I don't like wasting the time of a potnetial buyer and myself, or getting tons of lowball offers, so I do what is honest and forthright to prevent such things. And it is really amazingly easy to do, too.

 

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

[Meeley Man]

James,

 

Regarding all the pieces in your gallery marked "NFS":

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryDetail.asp?GCat=3287

 

Are ALL of them "not for sale at ANY price"? I doubt it. So tell me which ones are potentially available and what you want for them. I don't know the market values, I don't care to do the research, I just want you to tell me. Remember, you have all the power, so don't play with my emotions.

 

Chop, chop.

 

Felix

 

 

 

 

 

 

Actually, all my pieces listed NFS are "not for sale at any price." If I do ever change my mind, they will be marked for sale, with a price and open to offers listed on them (i.e. instead of NFS it will say something like "$250.00 or best offer").

 

See, I don't like wasting the time of a potnetial buyer and myself, or getting tons of lowball offers, so I do what is honest and forthright to prevent such things. And it is really amazingly easy to do, too.

 

:roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao::roflmao:

 

What? No "Winnah" smilie for me? Whay a gyp. :boo::tonofbricks:

[Nexus]

 

Actually, all my pieces listed NFS are "not for sale at any price."

 

So if someone offered you, say, $10K for this classy piece:

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=287375&GSub=82368

 

...you'd turn them down?

 

Sorry, buddy, but you are entirely full of mess.