Thinking about something.. RE:Thread in GA forum.

[Old Fashion PB and J]

I was reading the debate/poll in the GA forum as to which book people would rather own. A Cap1 or AF15, both valued at 85K..

 

The responses were as always interesting, people brought up many points. Roy once again plugged MMC1 as being, well I stopped paying attention (Roy LOVES MMC1, and for Timely collectors it is THE book). Some people brought up other GA keys, and Kimik and Rick brought up something that made me think. Kimik stated how AF15 will eventually be on par with Tec27 and Action1, which is not entirely realistic but is still realistic. While AF15 is a big key, I dont consider it a MEGA key like the previous two books. That of course IS my opinion and I am sure many will not agree.

 

But it got me thinking about how other collectors view these "grail" books. I personally love the history of the superhero genre. Action 1 is something that can never be replaced in my eyes. It really got the ball rolling, Detective Comics 27 is number two. The big thing with these books to me s they are still going. It wasnt a start/stop, bring back to original numbering, change titles Etc.. They are books that have just plugged away after 70+ years now. I also think about how Captain Marvel really had kids reading comics in the GA of comics and how Timely Schomburg coers were just so patriotic, and rellevant to the times.

 

After the Ga you have the JLA, FF, and others who brought the comic book back. Stan Lee and Jack Kirby brought real interest back into comic books and created a juggernaut called Marvel Comics and were a dominant force for years, paving the way for what I read every week now.

 

I guess what I am saying, and asking is that I love the history of these books and generally judge the key books by lasting importance, and how they are relative to today. Am I alone in this thought? I dont consider my favorite characters first appearance the #1 book because it is my favorite character. I dont collect anything because of status of the book. I generally buy books I find to have had an impact on the genre, maybe artists, storylines, covers, etc.. But in the end I just love watching the books evolve from the crude GA to the high-tec books of today.

 

Is there anyone else who collects this way? Or am I the only one who thinks this way?

 

I know, its longwinded. But I swear I will just get back to posting graemlins and useless banter tomorrow..

[VintageComics]

Roy once again plugged MMC1 as being, well I stopped paying attention

 

Just to be fair and keep my post in context when I posted this:

 

Ryan there was a discussion a while back. There are a few (maybe even quite a few) who think Cap #1 should be a bigger key than Marvel #1. I disagree but I do understand their reasoning.

 

 

I was responding to Ryan's post stating this:

 

I went with AF #15. Cap #1 is a cool book, but it really is a second tier GA key (the top tier has 3 books IMHO - Action #1, Tec #27 and MC #1). I think a fairer poll would be MC #1 in 8.5 vs. AF #15, since these are probably the two most important Marvel/Timely/Atlas books.

 

...because the discussion turned to what Timely was actually the #1 book...Cap #1 or MC #1.

 

Carry on.

 

(thumbs u

[joeypost]

As much as I hate to say this

 

I would have to go with MC #1 as my #1 choice followed by the CAP #1.

[Ogami]

Pat, I would just like to say that you are being much more respectful to the importance of AF15 in this post, than I've seen you in the past, and I salute you for it! (thumbs u

 

 

As for the number three book, using your parameters of importance of the character to culture, and publishing longevity, I'd think, hands down, it goes to AF15, in light of Spidey carrying 3 books for most of thirty plus years, and one to two for forty plus. When people think Superheroes, they think Superman, Batman, Spider-Man. They are the Trinity, with all due respect to DC trying to make Wonderwoman the third. The importance of Spider-Man cannot be overstated.

 

 

As for placing MM1 as number three, I have a great deal of respect for that choice, recognizing one must walk before one can run.

[c-mack]

it will always be AF 15 to me, 1st comic i picked up? spiderman, fav cartoon? spiderman , fav comic in the sunday paper? spiderman...so i have more fondness for that book then dec 27 and action 1..but i dont think it will ever be put on the same leve books due to the rareness of dec27/action1

 

but spiderman is for sure as big if not bigger then batman/superman

[Green]

Hulk 1 ...wait, what was the question?

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Roy once again plugged MMC1 as being, well I stopped paying attention

 

Just to be fair and keep my post in context when I posted this:

 

Ryan there was a discussion a while back. There are a few (maybe even quite a few) who think Cap #1 should be a bigger key than Marvel #1. I disagree but I do understand their reasoning.

 

 

I was responding to Ryan's post stating this:

 

I went with AF #15. Cap #1 is a cool book, but it really is a second tier GA key (the top tier has 3 books IMHO - Action #1, Tec #27 and MC #1). I think a fairer poll would be MC #1 in 8.5 vs. AF #15, since these are probably the two most important Marvel/Timely/Atlas books.

 

...because the discussion turned to what Timely was actually the #1 book...Cap #1 or MC #1.

 

Carry on.

 

(thumbs u

It was just more of a fun poke Roy. I do respect MMC1, I just know you LOVE that book. Im not trying to put you down, I just love messing with ya!

[Old Fashion PB and J]

Pat, I would just like to say that you are being much more respectful to the importance of AF15 in this post, than I've seen you in the past, and I salute you for it! (thumbs u

 

 

As for the number three book, using your parameters of importance of the character to culture, and publishing longevity, I'd think, hands down, it goes to AF15, in light of Spidey carrying 3 books for most of thirty plus years, and one to two for forty plus. When people think Superheroes, they think Superman, Batman, Spider-Man. They are the Trinity, with all due respect to DC trying to make Wonderwoman the third. The importance of Spider-Man cannot be overstated.

 

 

As for placing MM1 as number three, I have a great deal of respect for that choice, recognizing one must walk before one can run.

 

FF1 for Marvel SA. Spidey would not have come along if the FF hadnt taken off. But I would give spidey the second most important key. I can discuss that all day long. Spidey is more popular, but his book is not more important to the Marvel Universe by a long shot.

[VintageComics]

It was just more of a fun poke Roy. I do respect MMC1, I just know you LOVE that book. Im not trying to put you down, I just love messing with ya!

 

[VintageComics]

 

FF1 for Marvel SA. Spidey would not have come along if the FF hadnt taken off. But I would give spidey the second most important key. I can discuss that all day long. Spidey is more popular, but his book is not more important to the Marvel Universe by a long shot.

 

That's why when it comes down to discussing something like this we need to clarify if we are talking strictly dollar value or if we are discussing historical impact, or historical importance which might include both because there are plenty of books that are just as important to comics as AF #15 that simply do not sell for close to guide any more.

 

R.

 

 

[Theagenes]

If we are talking about overall cultural significance, then yes I think AF 15 is third most important comic. Superman, Batman, and Spiderman are the Big Three as far as superheroes go and Action 1, Tec 27, AF 15 are the big books for those three. They are iconic symbols and no other books are on that level today. AF 15 has solidly laid claim to the no.3 spot imo.

 

There are books that are more valuable (Supes 1); books that are arguably more historically significant (MMC 1, FF1, Cap 1), but none of the other contenders for the no. 3 spot have the overall symbolic importance that AF 15 enjoys today.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[DrWatson]

Hulk 1 ...wait, what was the question?

In all honesty, I think I might rather have a Hulk #1. I just don't see them everyday. AF 15s fall out of the sky like raindrops and I am not that big of a fan of Captain America.

 

I do think both will eventual outstrip Marvel #1 in importance mainly due to the fact that the first appearance of the Human Torch isn't as important as Captain America or Spider-Man. However, it's place in history is very important.

[rjpb]

Even in the GA thread I think there was a general agreement that AF #15 is a more "important" book - the debate was more about value in equivelant higher grade when one considers how far more common AF #15 is, and too a lesser degree which one would you like to have in your collection.

[Ogami]

Pat, I would just like to say that you are being much more respectful to the importance of AF15 in this post, than I've seen you in the past, and I salute you for it! (thumbs u

 

 

As for the number three book, using your parameters of importance of the character to culture, and publishing longevity, I'd think, hands down, it goes to AF15, in light of Spidey carrying 3 books for most of thirty plus years, and one to two for forty plus. When people think Superheroes, they think Superman, Batman, Spider-Man. They are the Trinity, with all due respect to DC trying to make Wonderwoman the third. The importance of Spider-Man cannot be overstated.

 

 

As for placing MM1 as number three, I have a great deal of respect for that choice, recognizing one must walk before one can run.

 

FF1 for Marvel SA. Spidey would not have come along if the FF hadnt taken off. But I would give spidey the second most important key. I can discuss that all day long. Spidey is more popular, but his book is not more important to the Marvel Universe by a long shot.

 

Personally, I think that is debatable, Pat.

 

 

[MrBedrock]

So much of what is considered historically important and significant is a direct result of the biases of the culture that makes the determination. From my perspective, based on when I started collecting and the prevalent views of that time, Action #1 was THE book. And the argument for most important silver age comic centered around Showcase 4 vs. Fantastic Four #1 (with FF getting my vote). But time moves on, and Spidey has rightfully been given the title of most important character from that time period. And silver age, simply due to perspective, is becoming THE collectible time period for comic books. The old farts get moved aside. I think it is entirely possible that at some point in the future Amazing Fantasy 15 could be considered the most important comic of all. Or maybe, hundreds of years from now, something that we never gave any thought to (Sponge Bob? Sonic the Hedgehog?) could be considered the pinnacle of pop-culture achievement.

We will all just have to wait and see.

[comicalgems]

Importance to me: AF 15. I agree that Superman, Batman, and Spider-Man are the three that everyone thinks of when you say "super hero". Maybe one day that'll be Superman, Batman, Spider-Man, and Wolverine ;-)

 

As a kid I loved Batman above all else and was really caught up in the hype around the 1989 movie. When I started reading comics though, I found I liked Spider-Man's stories more than Batman's. So while I absolutely love Batman, hands down I'd rather own an AF 15 than a Detective 27 or Action 1.

[Ogami]

Yeah, Richard, I had a big post typed up discussing the Hulk's cultural importance, (he has a huge worldwide following), and how what you are discussing HAS to be taken into consideration alongside historical printing order, or who came first, and value.

 

I think you said it better than me.

[1koko]

If we were to ask the world generally the order of the top 3 super-hero characters the resuult would probably be Batman, Spider-Man and then Superman.

 

However the scarcity factor and historical significance of the books would for a comic collector change the order to Action #1, Tec #27 and then AF#15

[comicalgems]

If we were to ask the world generally the order of the top 3 super-hero characters the resuult would probably be Batman, Spider-Man and then Superman.

 

However the scarcity factor and historical significance of the books would for a comic collector change the order to Action #1, Tec #27 and then AF#15

 

I don't disagree with this at all, but an AF 15 is more affordable for someone like me (who I would consider to be the average joe) than an Action 1 or Tec 27 both of which would be "Oh hey look at how awesome I am owning this book!" type books, they are also something I would never consider trying to buy prior to paying off my mortgage.

 

Obviously if I had an Action 1 or Tec 27 I could sell them and get an AF 15 and have some left over...but for me AF 15 is the book I most want.

[TheWatcher]

Cap 1 over MC 1. Never been the biggest HT or Submariner fan, but always been a huge Cap fan (thumbs u If that wasn't enough, Cap always had better art (at least the first 10 issues)