Kirby heirs claim Spider-Man co-creator credit

[mackenzie999]

Probably covered elsehere on the boards, but here it is again:

 

Link

[He11blazer]

 

That is one tenuous claim! Good luck to his heirs in snatching a token payoff, not that there's any reason they should get it.

 

Oh yeah, and I can imagine how keen Stan is to accept one-third of the Spidey creator credit. His reaction when asked to acknowledge Ditko's co-creator credit is hilarious

[mackenzie999]

This is just a bargaining chip for their Disney negotiations. They do have a point though, if Kirby really did come up with the idea of a nerdy spider-powered teen living with aunt & uncle, that IS a significant contribution.

[fantastic_four]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? If that's the case, and the original Kirby version of the costume looked like it does on the cover, then I'd think Kirby had more to do with the visual design than either one of them did. The original idea for the character though is all Stan, although I'm guessing Kirby and/or Ditko added a few of the seminal ideas in.

[fantastic_four]

if Kirby really did come up with the idea of a nerdy spider-powered teen living with aunt & uncle, that IS a significant contribution.

 

The character details were all Stan.

[short_box-migration]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

[AtlasFan]

Is this claim derived from that old story where Kirby's advocates claim that Spider-man is really based on the Joe Simon character the "Silver Spider" (which became Archie's The FLY) and that Jack just modified the original Silver Spider character into the character that appears in AF #15?

 

I dont think Jack had anything to do with the initial story plot, but if he did design Spidey's costume...the heirs may have something...its worth a shot...but I'm sure Joe will want his cut as well.

 

 

[Ares]

The Lawyers will have a field day with this!

[Dick Pontoon]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

 

You have it backwards. Ditko's cover got rejected, so Stan had Kirby draw it. That's a Kirby drawing with Ditko inks.

[Mutant Manatee]

Also, if you read the article linked in the first post, Kirby pencilled 5 pages of the first Spider-Man story, Stan didn't like them and had Ditko start over from scratch.

 

According to Ditko, Kirby's version of Spider-Man looked nothing like the version that appeared in AF #15.

 

 

[AtlasFan]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

 

You have it backwards. Ditko's cover got rejected, so Stan had Kirby draw it. That's a Kirby drawing with Ditko inks.

 

In "Origins of Marvel Comics" Stan states that Kirby drew a "few pages", but Peter Parker looked too muscular and heroic -- not the look Stan wanted -- so he gave it to Ditko to make Parker look like a typical teenage everyman.

 

Those "few pages" have never surfaced...ever. If they even existed, they were probably destroyed shortly after being rejected as they were only partially complete. If they exist of not dosent effect any claim of ownership...just an interesting footnote.

[mackenzie999]

I think there's enough grist here for the legal mill that it will amount to something extra for the Kirbys...probably not in the form of Spidey rights but maybe a better deal on his more legitimate claims. Even if a claim is ridiculous, it's often cheaper to pay for it to go away rather than fight it.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

if he did draw a story first, that art would have been a holy grail of comics and be worth a lot on the open market.

[MR.COMICBOOK]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

 

You have it backwards. Ditko's cover got rejected, so Stan had Kirby draw it. That's a Kirby drawing with Ditko inks.

 

In "Origins of Marvel Comics" Stan states that Kirby drew a "few pages", but Peter Parker looked too muscular and heroic -- not the look Stan wanted -- so he gave it to Ditko to make Parker look like a typical teenage everyman.

 

Those "few pages" have never surfaced...ever. If they even existed, they were probably destroyed shortly after being rejected as they were only partially complete. If they exist of not dosent effect any claim of ownership...just an interesting footnote.

Do you think Stan did destroy them or did Kirby keep them and now his heirs are holding the key to untold riches?

[mackenzie999]

Do you think Stan did destroy them or did Kirby keep them and now his heirs are holding the key to untold riches?

 

I think Atlas Fan's conjecture is the most likely scenario by a long shot:

 

Those "few pages" have never surfaced...ever. If they even existed, they were probably destroyed shortly after being rejected as they were only partially complete.

[AtlasFan]

Didn't Kirby draw the Spider-Man story in AF15 first, but Stan didn't like the work, so he had Ditko re-do it? .

 

Cover, not story. Kirby drew the cover first, Stan didn't like it, and then had Ditko do it. Never heard of Kirby doing any interior art on that book.

 

You have it backwards. Ditko's cover got rejected, so Stan had Kirby draw it. That's a Kirby drawing with Ditko inks.

 

In "Origins of Marvel Comics" Stan states that Kirby drew a "few pages", but Peter Parker looked too muscular and heroic -- not the look Stan wanted -- so he gave it to Ditko to make Parker look like a typical teenage everyman.

 

Those "few pages" have never surfaced...ever. If they even existed, they were probably destroyed shortly after being rejected as they were only partially complete. If they exist of not dosent effect any claim of ownership...just an interesting footnote.

Do you think Stan did destroy them or did Kirby keep them and now his heirs are holding the key to untold riches?

 

Who knows?

 

If they existed, I dont think they would have been destroyed to cover-up anything (why would Stan have even mentioned it in his book it that was the case?), If Jack did a few layouts, showed them to Stan -- who then canceled the assignment -- there would be no reason to keep them.

 

If the Kirby heirs had them..it would be interesting, but how would they prove the drawings were done in 1962 as opposed to 1963 or later?

[dekeuk]

 

Ditko did the art for the first Uncle Ben and Aunt May in Strange Tales #97 before AF #15 came out.

 

I think that weakens Kirby as Spider-man creator a lot.

 

Ditko did the first Ben/May and was the logical choice to continue drawing them when Peter Parker came on the scene.

 

 

[fantastic_four]

Ditko did the art for the first Uncle Ben and Aunt May in Strange Tales #97 before AF #15 came out.

 

I think that weakens Kirby as Spider-man creator a lot.

 

Ditko did the first Ben/May and was the logical choice to continue drawing them when Peter Parker came on the scene.

 

What the heck does Uncle Ben and Aunt May from Strange Tales have to do with the creation of Spidey? Stan picked those two already-used characters more or less at random. And if Ditko was the logical choice to draw Peter Parker, why did Stan choose Kirby instead and only replace him when he didn't like his take?

[Mr 9.8]

Oh this will end well!

[fantastic_four]

Oh this will end well!