Questionable Paypal fees

[joe_collector]

Not a sensible comparison........by the way Joe....have you never sped and if you have how would you feel if a bunch of busy bodies were lining the interstate taking down your number plate so that they could dob you into the police.

 

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

People who flaunt the laws get no sympathy from me.

[Mushroom]

Not a sensible comparison........by the way Joe....have you never sped and if you have how would you feel if a bunch of busy bodies were lining the interstate taking down your number plate so that they could dob you into the police.

 

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

People who flaunt the laws get no sympathy from me.

 

You didn't answer the question......have you ever sped?

[BassGMan]

First of all, is charging a PayPal fee to cover the expense REALLY against the law? Someone has mentioned that but that does not mean it is true. There are businesses that still charge an extra fee for using a credit cards instead of cash, some small stores and etc. And not long ago MANY businesses did this. Maybe different states have different laws. I can understand that this may be a policy that Ebay/PayPal does not like, but maybe that is for self-serving reasons. I cannot understand why it SHOULD be illegal or against the rules if clearly stated up front. If Ebay did not own PayPal I wonder if it would still be against the rules. Ya' never really know about these things. Ebay certainly wants as many people as possible to use PayPal so I can understand them not wanting buyers to pay an extra fee, if so, not as many buyers would use PayPal. See? Now I wonder why it is against the rules, but illegal? I would like to see proof of that please. ----Sid

[Joanna]

First of all, is charging a PayPal fee to cover the expense REALLY against the law? Someone has mentioned that but that does not mean it is true. There are businesses that still charge an extra fee for using a credit cards instead of cash, some small stores and etc. And not long ago MANY businesses did this. Maybe different states have different laws. I can understand that this may be a policy that Ebay/PayPal does not like, but maybe that is for self-serving reasons. I cannot understand why it SHOULD be illegal or against the rules if clearly stated up front. If Ebay did not own PayPal I wonder if it would still be against the rules. Ya' never really know about these things. Ebay certainly wants as many people as possible to use PayPal so I can understand them not wanting buyers to pay an extra fee, if so, not as many buyers would use PayPal. See? Now I wonder why it is against the rules, but illegal? I would like to see proof of that please. ----Sid

 

It is illegal in some states, not in others. In California it is illegal (from my understanding, it was in response to gas stations charging one price for CC and another for cash).

 

CC companies have rules that say merchants cannot pass on the surcharge. If they do, they no longer get to accept the CC. It just takes a customer turning the merchant in for the violation for that merchant to be in a lot of trouble.

 

As for paypal, it is against their policies, and therefore always wrong, whether you are upfront or not. Like CC companies,Paypal has rules, and to use their service, you must abide by them. So there's no question that passing on the fee is 100% wrong in Paypal's eyes. That paypal 3% is most likely the charge the CC company charges, and to pass it on to a customer would be illegal in several states. Paypal isn't going to make separate rules for every state, so it is blanket policy. No law-breaking, no rule-breaking, pay the charge or lose your paypal account.

 

Ebay also has rules about it, simply because paypal does. They are enforcing their sister company's rules (and the law). You can get your auctions pulled, or NARU'd if you break ebay's rules.

 

It's not a question of whether people like the rule or the law. It's simply the way it is. Therefore, every seller needs to suck up the paypal fee, if he's going to accept credit cards. Otherwise, the seller risks his ebay account, his paypal account and possible arrest over pocket change.

 

-- Joanna

[BassGMan]

Thanks for clearing that up Joanna, it sounds like you are very well informed about this topic. I think it is important though to understand the motivation of why some sellers are charging this fee. Personally I had no idea before this thread that there was a rule against this. I also never charged this fee either. But I do not look at is as if a seller is trying to rip someone off, assuming that it is clearly stated. Just giving the seller an option of an easier method of payment if he/she wants to pay the service charge. Inform these dealers that they are breaking this rule and I am betting that 90+% would stop immediately. I also assume that some would then not offer PayPal as an option at all as some sellers really don't like giving up another 3% of gross sales, and you cannot blame them for that. On the other hand, you may see newly informed sellers start to jack up shipping if they cannot charge that 3%. No rule or law against that. --------Sid

[DeadUncleBen-migration]

First of all, is charging a PayPal fee to cover the expense REALLY against the law? Someone has mentioned that but that does not mean it is true. There are businesses that still charge an extra fee for using a credit cards instead of cash, some small stores and etc. And not long ago MANY businesses did this. Maybe different states have different laws. I can understand that this may be a policy that Ebay/PayPal does not like, but maybe that is for self-serving reasons. I cannot understand why it SHOULD be illegal or against the rules if clearly stated up front. If Ebay did not own PayPal I wonder if it would still be against the rules. Ya' never really know about these things. Ebay certainly wants as many people as possible to use PayPal so I can understand them not wanting buyers to pay an extra fee, if so, not as many buyers would use PayPal. See? Now I wonder why it is against the rules, but illegal? I would like to see proof of that please. ----Sid

 

Yes I will also will confirm that in the state I am in charging a surchage for credit card payments is against the law.Call any credit card company or check their websites for merchant agrements and you will see that anyone who signed a merchant agreement when they set up their credit card processing account and then knowingly charges surcharges is violating the law.Just because your a "small business" does not make it right to break the law.And in reguards to the speeding versus surcharge comparison Joe speeding does not effect anyone(unless he hits someone or something because of it )except himself if he gets a ticket and doesn't cost the people he sped by any money but surcharges cost money.If everytime someone sped by you doing over the speed limit and it cost YOU a dollar you wouldn't want to pay for it would you? That's the proper comparison.

[murph0]

Nicely done, Mushroom. Good example.

 

Brian

[joe_collector]

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

 

People who flaunt the laws get no sympathy from me.

 

You didn't answer the question......have you ever sped?

 

When I was a young lad, but it only took a big ticket to cure me of that habit. I respect the laws, I foolishly broke one, and I paid for it. But I didn't whine about it, I didn't complain, I just paid my tab and took my punishment.

 

If I started scamming with Paypal surcharges, I would respect the decision if EBay NARU'd my account and I got booted off Paypal as well.

 

P.S. not knowing the laws has never been an excuse, as it is your duty to understand the rules and regulations of anything you take part in.

 

 

[BassGMan]

 

 

P.S. not knowing the laws has never been an excuse, as it is your duty to understand the rules and regulations of anything you take part in.

 

 

That's true, I agree. BUT, you have to give people a break sometimes if they break a rule that is not obvious. I have checked out Ebay's "rules" several times and cannot believe all the stuff they have in there. Some of it obvious, some ridiculous, some very nitpicky and some prude. Go check it out sometimes. There is a heck of alot of information there and I doubt anyone has every rule memorized. ----Sid

[LordRahl]

It is illegal in some states, not in others. In California it is illegal (from my understanding, it was in response to gas stations charging one price for CC and another for cash).

 

You know I thought this was the case as well but I'm not sure anymore. I recently decided to go back to school to get my Masters. In paying my tuition fees at San Jose State I noticed that they charge a surcharge if you pay with a credit card. They specifically don't take VISA and explain that VISA regulations won't allow it or something to that effect. I'm not sure how they are getting around the law of not passing on CC charges onto consumers but I'm thinking that perhaps there is no such law to begin with?

[joe_collector]

I'm sure I read somewhere that gov't/state institutions are not bound by that law, and I'm sure it's just the VISA requirements they're trying to get around with this. Someone else posted a Calif. utilities company link awhile back, and they had some notation of "CC surcharges are allowed for state-run facilities" or something similar.

[FlyingDonut]

Just a couple of quick hits:

 

Credit card surcharges and cash discounts

In some states the customer can be assessed a surcharge for using a credit card. However, there are laws against credit card surcharges in CA, CO, CT, FL, KS, MA, ME, NY, OK and TX. Additionally, Visa and MasterCard prohibit surcharges. American Express discourages them in general, and prohibits merchants from charging them if they also accept MasterCard or Visa. Discover allows surcharges on credit card purchases except in the above states. According to Bankcard Holders of America, there is one exception to the no surcharge law. If you pay state license fees by credit card, you may have to pay a surcharge. There are no exceptions for retail merchants.

 

Credit Card Surcharges

An eBay seller may not charge a fee, often called a "credit card surcharge," when accepting credit card payments. This surcharge, which is an added cost to the buyer over and above the final sale price and shipping/handling, is not allowed under the laws of many states, including California.

 

Extra Charge for Using a Credit Card

Some merchants seek to impose a service fee for all credit card purchases.

 

When a merchant gives a credit card slip to the credit card company or bank for processing, a percentage of each purchase—usually 1.5% to 5% of the purchase amount—is deducted. This "merchant discount fee" helps pay for the bank's services and for the credit card system. By charging extra for credit card use, the merchant passes the discount fee on to customers.

 

MORE: Since 1984, when a Truth in Lending law ban on surcharges expired, some states have enacted laws prohibiting surcharges; see States That Prohibit Credit Card Surcharges.

 

Visa and MasterCard prohibit surcharges, and American Express discourages them. Amex does prohibit "discrimination" against the Amex card, however, so if a merchant accepts Visa and MasterCard (and cannot impose a surcharge under those companies' rules), the merchant may not discriminate against Amex by imposing a surcharge.

 

TIP: Any merchant that accepts American Express cards and also accepts Visa and/or MasterCard may not charge consumers a surcharge on Amex purchases.

 

Surcharges invite numerous abuses by retailers, including bait-and-switch tactics. There are no laws on how and when surcharges must be disclosed, making it difficult to figure out the total price of an item. Travelers often find it difficult to get out-of-state checks accepted, and should not be penalized for using credit cards. Further, credit card acceptance usually produces higher sales for merchants, offsetting the cost of processing credit card transactions.

 

Note that a cash discount is legal and permitted under all credit card companies rules. A cash discount offers a lower price for cash than credit; for example, many gasoline stations offer cash discounts. While this may merely be a loophole, it is permitted. In addition, there are a few state governmental agencies, including state tax offices and motor vehicle departments, that are permitted to charge surcharges due to state laws that do not permit them to pay discount fees. However, retail merchants may not impose surcharges.

 

Credit Card Surcharges at Flying J, Pilot Corporation Target of Suit by Owner-Operators

The Owner-Operator Independent Drivers Association (OOIDA) announces the filing of a class action suit in the Chancery court for Williamson County, Tennessee, against the Flying J, Inc., and Pilot Corporation truckstop chains and EFS National Bank for the improper imposition of surcharges upon credit card purchases of diesel fuel by truck operators. Jim Johnston, president of OOIDA, explained, "all merchants that accept VISA and MasterCard promise in their contract with the credit card company that no surcharge will be imposed on credit card purchases, yet these truckstops choose to ignore that promise when the customer is an owner-operator trucker with a credit card. Credit card users, including thousands of owner-operators, are beneficiaries of these promises, and have the right to enforce them."

 

OOIDA alleges that the Flying J and Pilot truckstop chains charge a higher price for diesel fuel when the driver’s credit card is used to pay for diesel fuel. OOIDA estimates that several thousand credit card users are being overcharged through surcharges on fuel purchases on a daily basis. OOIDA is seeking both monetary damages and injunctive relief on behalf of a class who uses credit cards to purchase diesel fuel at truckstops.

 

Mr. Johnston continued, "Owner-operators who must pay a higher credit card price for diesel fuel at truckstops are being penalized while other retail customers of diesel fuel are not. Owner-operators often rely on credit cards to purchase large quantities of diesel fuel because it is impractical and unsafe for drivers to carry with them the hundreds of dollars in cash needed to purchase the amount of fuel required for a long haul. Additionally, owner-operators are at a competitive disadvantage with larger trucking companies, which can issue fleet cards to their drivers." Fleet cards are plastic cards that may be used to purchase fuel at the same price as cash at many truckstop chains.

 

"Our goal is to assert the rights of owner-operators and other credit card holders to receive the kinds of service and treatment they have a right to expect when using these credit cards. This means not having to pay more to a merchant just because the payment was made by credit card," said Mr. Johnston. "The imposition of surcharges on credit card purchases lessens the value of the credit card itself," noted Johnston, "and it is especially outrageous that these surcharges are imposed primarily on owner-operators – a truckstop’s best customers!"

 

Mr. Johnston went on to state that "OOIDA would welcome the support of VISA, MasterCard and other credit card companies in its efforts to curb unfair and discriminatory practice."

 

[Rickdogg]