Why do Anti-Pressers HATE pressing?

[THE_BEYONDER]

I think it's Other. I think anti-pressers have a visceral reaction to pressing. They just simply want their books unmanipulated in any way. They want a virgin book.

 

 

I also believe that pressing is a form of restoration, and therefore DEMANDS proactive disclosure. (thumbs u

 

You only demand disclosure because you don't want the pressed book. Probably for the reason stated in my post.

 

That's what I was trying to say.

[Paratrooper]

Can you elaborate a bit more on your opinion as to the greed aspect?

 

One could argure that your reference to "greed" is really the seller's potential to flip an asset and maximize their profit -- which is the core of American Marketplace.

 

I am thinking that this is really coming from a resentment that the presser/seller is flipping the book for a profit -- and that "greed" is really part of option D).

 

It's distinct from the jealousy involved in other people making money that you're not. Flaming_Telepath stated it in suggesting it could spell a correction or collapse in the market in the future, although I don't see that happening simply due to pressing. Many, probably most, collectors don't even sell books, wish they were cheap enough for them to afford anything they ever wanted, and when they see people pressing for higher grades and profits, they just see their prized books moving farther and farther out of reach and the introduction of more and more people who don't give a flip about comics and stories but just press and resubmit out of greed. This isn't anything a collector-only type of person could ever like and that many actively dislike.

 

I don't like it, but it also doesn't bug me much, I'm neutral about it.

 

So then this resentment is really just an extension of the whole concept that comic book collecting has morphed into a "high-end collectors" investment game...and that "true collectors" who collect for the art, stories, and historical significance of a comic book have, it appears, taken a permanent seat at the rear of the bus.

 

Can once conclude that:

 

Anti-Pressing = True Comic Collector

Pro-Pressing = Comic Investor

 

I am sure there are shades of gray that can be worked into this equation (like I am anti-pressing when I BUY comics, but I am pro-pressing when I SELL comics), but I think this defines the 2 camps pretty accurately.

 

There's a third category, the I don't care about whether a book has been pressed or not. What would you say I am if I fall in that category, the True Comic Collector or the Comic Investor?

 

I would say that if you dont care about pressing at all, you would lean closer to the "True Comic Collector" category.

 

But tell me, if you had to sell your collection, would you press your books to maximize your return, or would you still not care?

 

Still wouldn't care. Not because I don't love selling a book more than I paid for it, but because I'm too lazy to go through the process to get a book pressed. Same exact reason why I didn't bother to remove the minimal resto on this book so that is doesn't have that PLOD stigma:

[RockMyAmadeus]

2 drop dead gorgeous 9's walk into a bar. One is a virgin, one has been pressed manipulated and otherwise defiled. Do you not prefer the virgin?

 

That's such a terrible analogy, but I'll play along...it's personal preference. Obviously, the "defiled" one is going to make herself look as nice as possible, and it's quite possible that you wouldn't be able to tell the two apart...

 

How's that for a curveball?

 

[fantastic_four]

Anti-Pressing = True Comic Collector

Pro-Pressing = Comic Investor

 

It's not that simple. Some people don't look badly upon pressing yet press just so their own books look better because they prefer high grade. If you truly don't mind pressing, and you truly do prefer books to be in the highest grade you can get them in, then pressing your own books for the purposes of your own collection makes perfect sense.

[delekkerste]

Why do Anti-Pressers (like myself) HATE pressing?

 

1. I do not accept that a book that has withstood the ravages of time and ownership and earned its grade through its unrestored and natural state is equivalent to a book that was not in that state for some/much/all of its natural life but was restored to that condition through pressing. Does anybody really believe the latter is as good as the former? If not, aren't you just a slave to the CGC label?

 

2. I do not accept that disclosure is sufficient. First, every book that is pressed is a book that I and many others do not want to own, period. That pool of books which I deem undesirable has gone from very few to probably thousands by now in just a few short years. While I respect the profit motive, a byproduct of the crack-press-resub game is that it leaves the books irrevocably tainted in my eyes - what's done in the name of profit cannot be undone.

 

Second, all these thousands of books have and will change hands many times in the coming years - reliable identification and segregation of pressed books is a fantasy. Pandora's Box has been opened.

 

3. I do think pressing has amplified the greed into the hobby to an unacceptable level. Yes, greed has always been prevalent and so has pressing, but the monetary rewards have never been so great. Never have so many people in this hobby been able to make so much for doing so little and crossing the line a little further has never been more tolerated or profitable as well. I feel the practice has contributed to a dramatic downward slide in ethics in this hobby. Anyone who is clued in these days knows some of the shenanigans that are going on both in plain sight and behind the scenes.

[Monstro]

Another great post.

[3319comics]

I dont know about any of this but. i feel for me the fun in the hobby is to have a copy of the particular book u love. The chase to find a gagillion year old book you always wanted in the best possible space you can afford. I dont know all the technical aspects of restoration but for me its like buying a reprint of the book. I mean I would love a 1.0 XMen #1 blue label over a restored one.

 

I guess I can understand how pressing isnt considered restoration? You are changing the phisical apperance of the book? isnt that what all those pruple labeled books have been tagged for? Physical manipulation of the book :shrug:

 

[1koko]

Why do Anti-Pressers (like myself) HATE pressing?

 

1. I do not accept that a book that has withstood the ravages of time and ownership and earned its grade through its unrestored and natural state is equivalent to a book that was not in that state for some/much/all of its natural life but was restored to that condition through pressing. Does anybody really believe the latter is as good as the former? If not, aren't you just a slave to the CGC label?

 

2. I do not accept that disclosure is sufficient. First, every book that is pressed is a book that I and many others do not want to own, period. That pool of books which I deem undesirable has gone from very few to probably thousands by now in just a few short years. While I respect the profit motive, a byproduct of the crack-press-resub game is that it leaves the books irrevocably tainted in my eyes - what's done in the name of profit cannot be undone.

 

Second, all these thousands of books have and will change hands many times in the coming years - reliable identification and segregation of pressed books is a fantasy. Pandora's Box has been opened.

 

3. I do think pressing has amplified the greed into the hobby to an unacceptable level. Yes, greed has always been prevalent and so has pressing, but the monetary rewards have never been so great. Never have so many people in this hobby been able to make so much for doing so little and crossing the line a little further has never been more tolerated or profitable as well. I feel the practice has contributed to a dramatic downward slide in ethics in this hobby. Anyone who is clued in these days knows some of the shenanigans that are going on both in plain sight and behind the scenes.

 

Unfortiunately I have to agree with delekkerste.

 

Great post

 

The reason pressing has become increasingly prevalent is CGC's opinion that it iis not restoration and the huge differential in value between the CGC 9.2/9.4/9.6/9.8 grades.

 

Pressing will over time destroy the differential as perceived rarity in CGC blue label grades . High grade collectors who spent substantial amounts on highly graded comics in the past due to rarity in grade will become disillusioned. There are many examples here.

 

I sold by SA collection in 2007 for the above reasons and focused on rare GA mid grade comics (unrestored and restored).

 

 

[lizards2]

2 drop dead gorgeous 9's walk into a bar. One is a virgin, one has been pressed manipulated and otherwise defiled. Do you not prefer the virgin?

 

Yeah, but i'll take both. Keep the defiled one and train the virgin.

 

fixed it for you

[lizards2]

It's not the pressing I hate, it's the pressers.

[Dano]

I just like the touch of real things. Pressed books feel manipulated to me. I've pretty much moved on to OA now, anyways. It's got greed in it too, but it's more fun to me.

 

Dan

[shortstack comics]

It's distinct from the jealousy involved in other people making money that you're not. Flaming_Telepath stated it in suggesting it could spell a correction or collapse in the market in the future, although I don't see that happening simply due to pressing. Many, probably most, collectors don't even sell books, wish they were cheap enough for them to afford anything they ever wanted, and when they see people pressing for higher grades and profits, they just see their prized books moving farther and farther out of reach and the introduction of more and more people who don't give a flip about comics and stories but just press and resubmit out of greed. This isn't anything a collector-only type of person could ever like and that many actively dislike.

 

I don't like it, but it also doesn't bug me much, I'm neutral about it.

 

I've had a hard time in the past thinking about how to articulate my feelings/thoughts on pressing, but I think you just hit the nail on the head from my viewpoint.

[sckao]

2 drop dead gorgeous 9's walk into a bar. One is a virgin, one has been pressed manipulated and otherwise defiled. Do you not prefer the virgin?

 

That's such a terrible analogy, but I'll play along...it's personal preference. Obviously, the "defiled" one is going to make herself look as nice as possible, and it's quite possible that you wouldn't be able to tell the two apart...

 

How's that for a curveball?

 

 

Calling a woman "defiled" in the first place is mysogynistic. So the OP really didn't help the argument.

 

In regards to this thread overall, life's too short.

 

 

 

[comix4fun]

I just like the touch of real things. Pressed books feel manipulated to me. I've pretty much moved on to OA now, anyways. It's got greed in it too, but it's more fun to me.

 

Dan

 

 

Is that, like, some kind of super power?

 

You should get a booth at conventions and demonstrate it. Kind of like the feats of strength at the old time carnivals.

 

You could be presented with a stack of 100 books and go through one by one..."PRESSED"...."REAL"...."PRESSED"...."REAL". I would pay a $1 admission to see it.

 

Just jibing you. I have never heard of people being able to tell pressing by feeling the book. But I too spend almost all of my time on Original Art and have been doing so for about 15 years now. I got out of comics because, at the time, resto was rampant and finding dealers who could spot it and subsequently disclose it were getting harder and harder to find. So I know what you mean.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

[shortstack comics]

2 drop dead gorgeous 9's walk into a bar. One is a virgin, one has been pressed manipulated and otherwise defiled. Do you not prefer the virgin?

 

That's such a terrible analogy, but I'll play along...it's personal preference. Obviously, the "defiled" one is going to make herself look as nice as possible, and it's quite possible that you wouldn't be able to tell the two apart...

 

How's that for a curveball?

 

 

Calling a woman "defiled" in the first place is mysogynistic. So the OP really didn't help the argument.

 

In regards to this thread Comic General today overall, life's too short.

 

 

 

sckao... I'm betting you pressed those Doom 2099's you sent to me didnt you

 

 

I fixed your comment for you

[Dano]

I just like the touch of real things. Pressed books feel manipulated to me. I've pretty much moved on to OA now, anyways. It's got greed in it too, but it's more fun to me.

 

Dan

 

 

Is that, like, some kind of super power?

 

You should get a booth at conventions and demonstrate it. Kind of like the feats of strength at the old time carnivals.

 

You could be presented with a stack of 100 books and go through one by one..."PRESSED"...."REAL"...."PRESSED"...."REAL". I would pay a $1 admission to see it.

 

Just jibing you. I have never heard of people being able to tell pressing by feeling the book. But I too spend almost all of my time on Original Art and have been doing so for about 15 years now. I got out of comics because, at the time, resto was rampant and finding dealers who could spot it and subsequently disclose it were getting harder and harder to find. So I know what you mean.

 

Best,

Chris

 

 

Chris,

Yeah, actually you're right, I CAN'T tell the difference. But with my luck, that would be the super power I'd end up with! Ha!

 

But you nailed it on the head, since I do think that it's resto (some do, some don't) I've just decided to move on and occasionally go for the moderns I think are cool and the super mid-grade GA. Original Art feels more like detective work to me lately, and that's a good thing.

 

Best,

Dan

[trmoore54]

I've seen a lot of stong opinions by people for and against pressing.

 

I am just wondering what is the driving force/forces AGAINST pressing?

 

Is it:

 

A) Pressing could potentially harm the comic

B) Pressing floods the market with "High Grade" comics

C) Pressign is really the same thing as Undisclosed Restoration

D) I dont like seeing books I've sold pressed & flipped for more $ than I sold it for

E) Other...(please elaborate)

 

I think it's Other. I think anti-pressers have a visceral reaction to pressing. They just simply want their books unmanipulated in any way. They want a virgin book.

 

I think it's no different than preferring chocolate to vanilla, or blondes over brunettes. A-D listed above might be the rational arguments that they use to validate their stance, but in the end, the truth is that on a visceral level they just want an unmanipulated book.

 

 

Jeff...I believe I understand in this sense your categorization of the feelings as a visceral attitude, but I would go so far as to say it's a philosophical attitude...at least for me. I have always viewed myself as a true collector, someone who shepherded his books from his youth to the present day...on a higher level an archivist...someone appreciative of the inherent value of something and protecting it into the future for my, as well as other's, eventual, enjoyment.

 

With that mission if you will comes responsibility. And for me that responsibility is to protect the books condition as best I can without manipulation. Protection in this case, and in my mind, to preserve their ability to last as long as possible...because let's face it, there will come a day when they will ultimately disintegrate.

 

Manipulation, beyond sound archival storage techniques, just crosses the line. Once people see some advantage, and let's be frank, most of this pressing is purely a money-driven/profit-making advantage, people will pursue it to that end. So, as previously stated, pressing was looked upon amongst the comic cognescenti just recently as clear restoration, only to have that opinion swept away with CGC's, and other's, influence.

 

So in that regard, pressing gets swept away today, and tomorrow cleaning is cool, and no longer restoration. And then what next? Everything happens in steps...take one step, and then the next step can be taken.

 

Not to mix analogies, but we're looking at a World Series this week being played in unacceptable weather, in conditions baseball was never intended to be played in, for all the marbles, all due to money. So much for the spirit of something that others would say is equally religious in how it should not be tainted in the pursuit of money/profit.

 

And btw...once books get older, such as GA, especially keys (and then ultimately SA), I am a 100% proponent of restoration to preserve these beautiful books and history...and just to throw another wrench in things I view this ultimately as conservation.

 

 

[nearmint]

So in that regard, pressing gets swept away today, and tomorrow cleaning is cool, and no longer restoration. And then what next? Everything happens in steps...take one step, and then the next step can be taken.

 

I agree with most of your post, but you lose me with the above quote. I know the guys at CGC, and I know many of the top collectors, and these are not people who are plotting to move other processes under the universal label umbrella.

 

There is a legitimate argument as to whether pressing is resto. But has anyone ever claimed that trimming isn't? The lines have been drawn, and I don't think the border between what's resto and what isn't is in any way porous.

[Speedy-D]

E) Other...(please elaborate)

 

 

 

sweet memories

[Mr 9.8]

I like pressed books....just saying.