What value should restored/conserved comics receive? 0

[kc120us]

In another thread, I had asked how should we view restored or conserved comics? Distain or Acceptance? I had posted that I thought the hobby's ( everyone involved with collecting) view on restoration needed to be addressed. I remember in the 80's restoration being promoted as a way to "make your comics just like new" and increase the value of those books. When the 90's came around, the pendulum had swung in the opposite direction and this view had completely reversed and restored comics were now to be shunned. But is that trully how they should be viewed? I think many of the GA collectors here might disagree. My question went unanswered.

 

So I ask again, How should restored/conserved comics be viewed? Distain or acceptance? And why? And the following question would be, how would you value them? What value should such books receive?

 

We've seen so many threads about pressing and restoration and CGC's take on all of it. Yet, I don't think we've discussed why it is so reviled and if that is even proper given that all of our books are aging and many will indeed need these conservation/restoration techniques to maintain their integrity and appeal as the decades pass.

 

I ask this not to start another anger filled flame war but to foster discussion.

 

I will start off. I believe restoration/conservation needs to be better accepted and should not receive the stigma it is currently bestowed. IMO, a restored book should be given the equivalent value of the book's previous grade prior to the restoration. If no grade change has occured, then the restoration could be seen as a "defect" value-wise.

 

What do you think?

[DiceX]

I think they should be branded with the PLOD and shunned by the entire community. They should only sell for cover price of the comic inside. Everyone should hate them.

 

 

 

[nwpassage]

I love restoration as conservation for collectors, but I loath it as a means of increasing monetary gain by investors. I guess that makes me wishy-washy at best.

[THE_BEYONDER]

a restored book should be given the equivalent value of the book's previous grade prior to the restoration

 

I disagree. Unless the resto could be reversed, the book should be worth more prior to the work done.

 

 

[ninanina]

Restoration developed a bad rap because people were selling restored comics without telling the buyer they were restored. Up until then, restored comics were more accepted. I'm thinking the pendulum is slowly swinging toward more acceptance primarily because CGC makes it easier to avoid undisclosed restoration. You buy a raw comic...you takes your chances.

 

The only comment I can make re: value wise....a heavily restored comic in VF would be worth whatever current guide is in VG. Certainly there are other criteria in determining worth as there are different degrees in how much the comic is restored.

[nwpassage]

I think restoration should be reserved for basket cases. I love the work the best of the best do to books that have no hope of being presentable otherwise.

[gpanalysis]

If the book is restored by a professional restoration/conservation expert, then I would consider them equal value. However, our hobby places a stigma on such books and hence the market adjusts accordingly. Personally, an expertly restored book where paper has been deacidified, spines reinforced, tears sealed, etc., one could even argue is now in a better state than a non-restored copy with soiling, tears, rolls, etc.

 

A non-professional restored book? I wouldn't touch it in a million years.

[MstrTech]

I feel the only type of "bad" restoration is the kind that removes anything from the book i.e. trimming. Beyond that I'm coming around to the idea that some of the other procedures are not all that harmful if at all. I currently don't mind the stigma as that means I can get some really nice books for way below guide. I am holding out hope that some day some of the practices will become more accepted and the books I'm buying now will get within 25% or so of their Universal counterparts. But if not hey I still got a great looking book for a reasonable price.

 

My most recent example. Highest graded copy, small color touch ( I can't even see it? ), and books for $350 universal. My dad paid less than Half.

 

(thumbs u

Andrew

 

 

 

 

[gpanalysis]

I feel the only type of "bad" restoration is the kind that removes anything from the book i.e. trimming.

 

Definitely agree. I should have added this to my statement also.

[ChasingKingKirby]

I don't mind certain forms of professional restoration. Tear seals, deacidification, reinforcement, etc. Not a fan of color touch, trimming SUCKS, or pieces added. I actually have started targeting key GA books that have SP or MP with those forms of restoration because they are cheap and potentially reversible if desired.

 

I prefer those books remain cheap so I can afford them.

 

M

[kc120us]

Great responses so far. I should have stated professional restoration since I think amateur work should be prevented. So i am gathering that the conservation techniques are more accepted than the cosmetic. So if someone takes an AF #15 6.0 and professionally restores it to a 9.4, should it now be worth less than it was as an unrestored 6.0? Why?

Edited November 12, 2009 by kc120us

[MstrTech]

Great responses so far. I should have stated professional restoration since I think amateur work should be prevented. So i am gathering that the conservation techniques are more accepted than the cosmetic. So if someone takes an AF #15 6.0 and professionally restores it to a 9.4, should it now be worth less than it was as an unrestored 6.0? Why?

 

In the current climate I think the answer to this question is Yes.

Jul 2008 AF#15 9.6 (PLOD slight pro) $50k

Oct 2008 AF#15 8.5 (Blue) $119k

 

If I had that kind of money I would have taken the 9.6 and been as happy as a pig in slop.

 

I have no Idea why.

 

If you take a piece of fine art and have it Pro. Restored it actually gains value. The opposite is true for funny books. Maybe its like antique furniture and guns and what not you have to have the original patina.

 

To me anything that will make the book last longer and look better is a good thing right?

 

(thumbs u

Andrew

 

 

[kc120us]

Great responses so far. I should have stated professional restoration since I think amateur work should be prevented. So i am gathering that the conservation techniques are more accepted than the cosmetic. So if someone takes an AF #15 6.0 and professionally restores it to a 9.4, should it now be worth less than it was as an unrestored 6.0? Why?

 

In the current climate I think the answer to this question is Yes.

Jul 2008 AF#15 9.6 (PLOD slight pro) $50k

Oct 2008 AF#15 8.5 (Blue) $119k

 

 

Now that makes me shake my head a little. Since it was SP restoration, the difference between that book and an unrestored version could be one tear seal or a few dots of CT on an otherwise untouched book. An unrestored 9.6 AF #15 is worth what? $500k? So the same book with a few dots of CT is worth 10% of that. I wonder if/when people come to their senses will the owners of these books be sitting on potential gold mines*.

 

 

 

 

 

*Yes, I know the crash is coming and all of this is moot but bear with me.

[MstrTech]

I wonder if/when people come to their senses will the owners of these books be sitting on potential gold mines.

 

That's what I'm counting on.

 

I just wish I could have pulled the trigger on the White Mountain 9.0 PLOD X-Men 1 that went for 10k.

 

I'll have to settle for my 6.0 Blue Label.

 

(thumbs u

Andrew

[Cimm]

If the book is restored by a professional restoration/conservation expert, then I would consider them equal value. However, our hobby places a stigma on such books and hence the market adjusts accordingly. Personally, an expertly restored book where paper has been deacidified, spines reinforced, tears sealed, etc., one could even argue is now in a better state than a non-restored copy with soiling, tears, rolls, etc.

 

A non-professional restored book? I wouldn't touch it in a million years.

 

I feel the only type of "bad" restoration is the kind that removes anything from the book i.e. trimming.

 

This is pretty much my own feeling... The only thing I would add is that the extensiveness of the restoration should play a part in determining final value, i.e.

 

Professional, slight = 90/100% of Universal

Professional, moderate = 60/90% of Universal

Professional, extensive = 40/60% of Universal

Amateur, slight = 40/80% of Universal

Amateur, moderate = 30/40% of Universal

Amateur, extensive = 10/30% of Universal

 

And then there are types of restoration to factor in, like, tear seals (+5%), colour touch(-10%), deacidification (+10%), pieces added (-20%), etc.

 

The above numbers are straight out of my arse, so are subject to change, derision, and revision at any time... but, they are my precise feelings on the subject of valuation of restoration.

 

Here's an example...

 

Marvel Mystery Comics #9 CGC 9.2 Restored, Professional, Moderate

 

Overstreet Guide Value is 58,000

Moderate restoration....... 52,200

 

Restoration includes

tear seals (3).................. 60,900

colour touch................... 54,810

pieces added (2)............. 43,938

staples replaced............. 41,741

deacidification................ 45,916 as the final value

Edited November 12, 2009 by Cimm

[VintageComics]

Personally, an expertly restored book where paper has been deacidified, spines reinforced, tears sealed, etc., one could even argue is now in a better state than a non-restored copy with soiling, tears, rolls, etc.

 

This is a very good point.

 

Often we take a short sighted view to restored books, mainly because a lot of the books that we want can be easily obtained in unrestored shape.

 

Books that have been restored/conserved (deacidified, rehumidified etc) may end up outlasting their unrestored counterparts.

 

This is definitely the case with some comic books that are old and rare just as it is the case with old documents and literature.

 

R.

 

 

[COI]

I'm seriously considering buying a 5.0-ish AF 15 to have extensively restored to pretty-ish, so no disdain here.

[VintageComics]

Great responses so far. I should have stated professional restoration since I think amateur work should be prevented. So i am gathering that the conservation techniques are more accepted than the cosmetic. So if someone takes an AF #15 6.0 and professionally restores it to a 9.4, should it now be worth less than it was as an unrestored 6.0? Why?

 

In the current climate I think the answer to this question is Yes.

Jul 2008 AF#15 9.6 (PLOD slight pro) $50k

Oct 2008 AF#15 8.5 (Blue) $119k

 

 

Now that makes me shake my head a little. Since it was SP restoration, the difference between that book and an unrestored version could be one tear seal or a few dots of CT on an otherwise untouched book. An unrestored 9.6 AF #15 is worth what? $500k? So the same book with a few dots of CT is worth 10% of that. I wonder if/when people come to their senses will the owners of these books be sitting on potential gold mines*.

 

 

*Yes, I know the crash is coming and all of this is moot but bear with me.

 

I think the reason the 9.6 PLOD sold for $50K is because someone valued it at what an 8.0 copy (or so) would have sold for at the time.

 

What I'm seeing is that savvy bidders will pay determine market price for a restored book by theoretically "unrestoring" the book to try and determine what the book would have graded before resto and then bid according they believe the previously unrestored grade was.

 

That is why the more the resto, the lower the price...because the book would have graded lower to start with before the resto was done.

 

I don't think this will ever change again.

 

What you will see is restored books start to climb as the consumer becomes more educated about resto but I don't think you'll see restored books ever catch up to unrestored books the way they used to be.

 

 

R.

 

 

[VintageComics]

I'm seriously considering buying a 5.0-ish AF 15 to have extensively restored to pretty-ish, so no disdain here.

 

I loves me my slightly restored books. 5 and 6 figure eye appeal and feel for a fraction of the price.

 

(thumbs u

[gpanalysis]

Personally, an expertly restored book where paper has been deacidified, spines reinforced, tears sealed, etc., one could even argue is now in a better state than a non-restored copy with soiling, tears, rolls, etc.

 

This is a very good point.

 

Often we take a short sighted view to restored books, mainly because a lot of the books that we want can be easily obtained in unrestored shape.

 

Books that have been restored/conserved (deacidified, rehumidified etc) may end up outlasting their unrestored counterparts.

 

This is definitely the case with some comic books that are old and rare just as it is the case with old documents and literature.

 

R.

 

 

Creating our very own "What If?" scenario, I wonder what would have been the case with restored books/values if from the very start CGC gave a PLOD only to those books that were not professionally restored, or had trimming? I.e. professional restored books still received a blue label with the details of the restoration/conservation undertaken.