$1,000,000 Frazetta painting confirmed

[The Troll King]

 

Lastly, Frazetta is the only living artist amongst the artists being discussed; Remember Frank has so far declined to sell his greatest works-- in 10-25 years we will have a better idea of Frank's true 'price per inch'.

 

 

This is the key to the whole debate about value, once Frank is gone, these pieces will be priceless...(or at least more in line with Rockwells, ect.)

 

You are comparing apples to oranges....Norman Rockwell has been dead for 31 years.

 

Not so, even Warhol and Picasso were selling items for record prices even while they were alive.

 

I know a lot of people in the art community that have no respect for Picasso's later work claiming that he was slopping anything together just to see what it would sell for. Claiming that Picasso himself thought it was ridiculous.

 

Realize to that Frazetta was extremely prolific in his day. He use to knock out paintings like the original Death Dealer and the Vampi #1 cover in less than a week.

 

When and if these paintings come to market eventually the market will be saturated with them. I'm sure the heirs will only leak out a few at a time in an attempt to control the prices for as long as possible.

 

We're not talking about DaVinci or Vermeer here who had very short careers. We're talking about a modern Van Gogh who churned out hundreds of paintings.

[comix4fun]

 

Lastly, Frazetta is the only living artist amongst the artists being discussed; Remember Frank has so far declined to sell his greatest works-- in 10-25 years we will have a better idea of Frank's true 'price per inch'.

 

 

This is the key to the whole debate about value, once Frank is gone, these pieces will be priceless...(or at least more in line with Rockwells, ect.)

 

You are comparing apples to oranges....Norman Rockwell has been dead for 31 years.

 

Not so, even Warhol and Picasso were selling items for record prices even while they were alive.

 

I know a lot of people in the art community that have no respect for Picasso's later work claiming that he was slopping anything together just to see what it would sell for. Claiming that Picasso himself thought it was ridiculous.

 

Realize to that Frazetta was extremely prolific in his day. He use to knock out paintings like the original Death Dealer and the Vampi #1 cover in less than a week.

 

When and if these paintings come to market eventually the market will be saturated with them. I'm sure the heirs will only leak out a few at a time in an attempt to control the prices for as long as possible.

 

We're not talking about DaVinci or Vermeer here who had very short careers. We're talking about a modern Van Gogh who churned out hundreds of paintings.

 

 

You are muddying the discussion.

 

We are talking about Frank Frazetta's 5 or 10 best oil paintings.

 

We aren't talking about his lesser pencil and ink or oil work.

 

We are talking about the painting that just sold for $1 million, Conan, Egyptian Queen, Death Dealer and a choice few others.

 

The claim of market saturation is a moot point when you are talking about the cream of an artistic career only.

 

An artist's best work will always be his best work regardless of how many lesser pieces by that artist come to market. The demand for the best of anything continues unabated in the face of B or C level work.

 

Also I don't know why you are hanging on Gene's opinion, as educated and experienced as it is, you have heard from Rob Pistella who has as much experience dealing with Frazetta art as anyone and is one of the authorized agents for Frank. You heard from Scott Williams who has followed Frank's career and the art market for his pieces as closely as anyone.

 

You've had more than one person in this thread, and these are people that know for a fact, that Frank has been offered in excess of $1 million for several pieces including Death Dealer and only this sale was chosen to be announced.

 

I don't know why you are clinging to the belief that this is a one-time fluke when several knowledgeable, experience people have refuted that belief. Frank himself could have publicly broken the million dollar mark several years ago if he had chosen to do so, on more than one piece with more than one potential buyer.

 

It doesn't make sense.

 

[Bronty]

 

We're not talking about DaVinci or Vermeer here who had very short careers. We're talking about a modern Van Gogh who churned out hundreds of paintings.

 

In today's art world a short career doesn't elevate values, it helps depress them. Old masters may be helped by limited supply, but modern artists won't gain the fame needed to help pricing unless they put out a fair amount of material.

 

In other words, if you do 30 paintings in your entire life, and thereby have a supply of work similar to vermeer's no one will even know or care Who T.F. you are.

 

 

[The Troll King]

 

We're not talking about DaVinci or Vermeer here who had very short careers. We're talking about a modern Van Gogh who churned out hundreds of paintings.

 

In today's art world a short career doesn't elevate values, it helps depress them. Old masters may be helped by limited supply, but modern artists won't gain the fame needed to help pricing unless they put out a fair amount of material.

 

In other words, if you do 30 paintings in your entire life, and thereby have a supply of work similar to vermeer's no one will even know or care Who T.F. you are.

 

 

 

Your short career statement is

 

Keith Haring and Jackson Pollock had pretty short careers yet people seem to want to pay crazy money for them.

[tth2]

It`s not true because I would pay $1 million for it.

 

As if your wife would let you!

One trip to Harry Winston's and I'd get the approval I'd need!

[tth2]

have you SEEN some of the high grade DCs tim has sold? I'm sure he could raise the million bucks if he wanted to and he's not the kind of guy who would put that out there to boost his ego and not mean it

 

I'm not saying he doesn't have or couldn't raise the money. I only made the beat up reference because it seems that rather than using logic all the posts against me in this thread have dove into school-yard type bickering.

Not at all. You were saying that Death Dealer couldn't sell for $1 million. And I was attempting to refute you by eliminating the speculation and simply saying that I know for a fact that it would, because I would be willing to write the check. And no, the check would not bounce.

 

Nothing schoolyard about it, and not an attempt by me to brag because I know I'm just a peon. It was just an attempt to settle the argument with facts.

 

[The Troll King]

I'm going to say one more thing in this thread and then I'm done with it:

 

It's fine if you guys disagree with my opinion that million dollar Frazetta sales are the exception rather than the rule. I can think of a lot of artists that I feel are undervalued as well. It all boils down to opinion. Nothing is more subjective than art.

 

What I'm upset about though is all the name calling and ridicule I've had to endure in this thread, specifically when I was quoting price per square inch of certain artists.

 

Hopefully some of you might have actually read some of the links I provided showing that this method of determining price and value of a piece is quite common in the art world. Maybe some of you actually learned something too.

 

Instead of being comic book art snobs and acting like a bunch of children you could have very easily tried to convince me that my thoughts on the subject were wrong. I asked for verifiable sales of Frazetta over the half a million mark and was completely ignored.

 

Individual private sales of art do not normally equate to true value of an artist. Auctions do. Pieces of art are not comic books. They are one of a kind renderings and it is illogical to make any statement that just because one painting happened to sell in a private sale for X amount that all other works by that same artist are now of equal value.

 

Hopefully we can all remain friends, just in a different thread. (thumbs u

[Bronty]

re harry winston

[Bronty]

I'm going to say one more thing in this thread and then I'm done with it:

 

It's fine if you guys disagree with my opinion that million dollar Frazetta sales are the exception rather than the rule. I can think of a lot of artists that I feel are undervalued as well. It all boils down to opinion. Nothing is more subjective than art.

 

What I'm upset about though is all the name calling and ridicule I've had to endure in this thread, specifically when I was quoting price per square inch of certain artists.

 

Hopefully some of you might have actually read some of the links I provided showing that this method of determining price and value of a piece is quite common in the art world. Maybe some of you actually learned something too.

 

Instead of being comic book art snobs and acting like a bunch of children you could have very easily tried to convince me that my thoughts on the subject were wrong. I asked for verifiable sales of Frazetta over the half a million mark and was completely ignored.

 

Individual private sales of art do not normally equate to true value of an artist. Auctions do. Pieces of art are not comic books. They are one of a kind renderings and it is illogical to make any statement that just because one painting happened to sell in a private sale for X amount that all other works by that same artist are now of equal value.

 

Hopefully we can all remain friends, just in a different thread. (thumbs u

 

well you refuse to acknowledge that frazetta's auction records are pretty meaningless because none of his better work has ever come to auction. So quoting auction stats and asking for verifiable sales is equally meaningless

[tylerdurden-migration]

anybody know where "Winged Terror" is ?

 

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/fantasy/images/FrankFrazetta-Winged-Terror-1965.jpg

[Nexus]

anybody know where "Winged Terror" is ?

 

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/fantasy/images/FrankFrazetta-Winged-Terror-1965.jpg

 

Heh...this is funny. I guess word is getting around. Yes, apparently "Winged Terror" has surfaced from a long-buried collection. Good timing for the owner!

 

I was approached last year about another Frazetta that had been buried, "Beyond the Furthest Star". I had nothing to do with that eventual sale, and I'll have nothing to do with "Winged Terror"...but it does feel like lightning striking twice.

[Kevin76]

Instead of being comic book art snobs and acting like a bunch of children you could have very easily tried to convince me that my thoughts on the subject were wrong. I asked for verifiable sales of Frazetta over the half a million mark and was completely ignored.

 

Individual private sales of art do not normally equate to true value of an artist. Auctions do. Pieces of art are not comic books. They are one of a kind renderings and it is illogical to make any statement that just because one painting happened to sell in a private sale for X amount that all other works by that same artist are now of equal value.

 

Hopefully we can all remain friends, just in a different thread. (thumbs u

 

He doesn't sell his more well known paintings,this is the first more well known one he's sold and it sold for a million. That's why the big deal.

[tylerdurden-migration]

anybody know where "Winged Terror" is ?

 

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/fantasy/images/FrankFrazetta-Winged-Terror-1965.jpg

 

Heh...this is funny. I guess word is getting around. Yes, apparently "Winged Terror" has surfaced from a long-buried collection. Good timing for the owner!

 

I was approached last year about another Frazetta that had been buried, "Beyond the Furthest Star". I had nothing to do with that eventual sale, and I'll have nothing to do with "Winged Terror"...but it does feel like lightning striking twice.

 

I love this piece

 

And yes, word is out

[Nexus]

anybody know where "Winged Terror" is ?

 

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/fantasy/images/FrankFrazetta-Winged-Terror-1965.jpg

 

Heh...this is funny. I guess word is getting around. Yes, apparently "Winged Terror" has surfaced from a long-buried collection. Good timing for the owner!

 

I was approached last year about another Frazetta that had been buried, "Beyond the Furthest Star". I had nothing to do with that eventual sale, and I'll have nothing to do with "Winged Terror"...but it does feel like lightning striking twice.

 

I love this piece

 

And yes, word is out

 

In both cases, the respective owners were out-of-touch with the hobby and uninformed about market values. Ripe for fleecing by some around here. So now, as then, I've told them who they can (reasonably) trust in the hobby, and who they should avoid. The second list is longer than the first:P

[tylerdurden-migration]

anybody know where "Winged Terror" is ?

 

http://www.arthistoryarchive.com/arthistory/fantasy/images/FrankFrazetta-Winged-Terror-1965.jpg

 

Heh...this is funny. I guess word is getting around. Yes, apparently "Winged Terror" has surfaced from a long-buried collection. Good timing for the owner!

 

I was approached last year about another Frazetta that had been buried, "Beyond the Furthest Star". I had nothing to do with that eventual sale, and I'll have nothing to do with "Winged Terror"...but it does feel like lightning striking twice.

 

I love this piece

 

And yes, word is out

 

In both cases, the respective owners were out-of-touch with the hobby and uninformed about market values. Ripe for fleecing by some around here. So now, as then, I've told them who they can (reasonably) trust in the hobby, and who they should avoid. The second list is longer than the first:P

 

I hears ya

[vodou]

Whew. Long thread start to finish if you only check these boards every few weeks like myself.

 

Anyway, I'd like to point out (because nobody else did yet) that Warhol was an illustrator long before he was "that Marilyn guy".

 

I quote -

 

"A thought-provoking question was raised here … Was Warhol an artist or a con-artist? Well, he definitely was a creative opportunist, that’s for sure! After Andy Warhol graduated from Carnegie Tech in 1949, he migrated to the Big Apple where he became the highest paid illustrator in NY, earning $150,000/year during the 1950s. A starving artist he was not!!! His success in the 50s allowed him to transition from advertiser to pop artist, successfully using consumerism as a subject of art. Hence the Can of Campbell’s Soup! "

 

http://mimisculturalgems.blogspot.com/2009/06/andy-warhol-artist-con-artist-or-little.html

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=NRmjRcSYXlgC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=warhol+highest+paid+illustrator&source=bl&ots=JetAbROjF9&sig=taoZzDjITG5GzgqeNXV-oQJEOx4&hl=en&ei=aGsQS666Gc6YlAfw-OihBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=warhol%20highest%20paid%20illustrator&f=false

 

It's also a fact that Warhol tried unsucessfully for three years to get a one-man show in his (adopted) hometown NYC but couldn't. The major contemporary galleries weren't biting. His first one-man show was in CA and almost nothing sold. In other words he was a much more successful illustrator than fine artist, at least in the beginning. Just a curious thing for those not familiar with Warhol or that might not know he did indeed draw, long before he screenprinted and farmed most work out to assistants.

 

The Warhols that get the BIG $$$ - like "200 One Dollar Bills" for $44mil and "Green Car Crash (Green Burning Car I)" for $71.7mil are the top iconic Warhold works, are a combination of hand-painting and screening, and are almost 100% pure Warhol (with maybe some help from Gerard Malanga - kind of like having a studio assistant fill blacks on a comic page).

 

None of this has anything to do with a $1mil Fraz sale. Just anecdotal background. The Fraz price is very interesting but I truly think only those with $1mil cash to spend have any legitimate claim to comment on the subject of "what Frazetta is worth $1mil or more." That dollar amount is so far outside what most of us will even earn over the next 10 years before taxes that it's silly to think we could step into those shoes and speak in an educated and eloquent way on how best to spend that kind of money. My opinion.

 

But it's all fun to read, so please each of you do continue forward!

[comix4fun]

 

None of this has anything to do with a $1mil Fraz sale. Just anecdotal background. The Fraz price is very interesting but I truly think only those with $1mil cash to spend have any legitimate claim to comment on the subject of "what Frazetta is worth $1mil or more." That dollar amount is so far outside what most of us will even earn over the next 10 years before taxes that it's silly to think we could step into those shoes and speak in an educated and eloquent way on how best to spend that kind of money. My opinion.

 

 

 

So does this apply only to Frazetta sales?

 

Or does it apply to all analysis made be people who aren't in the position to participate in the activity which they are analyzing?

 

Does this mean that art agents, gallery curators, and art appraisers should immediately quit their jobs and go to work in the fast food industry?

 

None of them have a million to spend, but each of them are commenting on prices, setting prices, and estimating prices.

 

I am writing an email to ESPN now demanding they fire their sports commentators who aren't also athletes, They have no business talking about sports when they can't play them.

 

I think it's silly to think that educated people, with experience, knowledge and networked contacts, within a given field, could not comment in a meaningful way on any topic. There are consultants and experts in everything from soup to nuts that don't personally have the cash to play the game but that doesn't mean they don't know how it's played.

 

Just saying. (thumbs u

[tth2]

Anyway, I'd like to point out (because nobody else did yet) that Warhol was an illustrator long before he was "that Marilyn guy".

 

I quote -

 

"A thought-provoking question was raised here … Was Warhol an artist or a con-artist? Well, he definitely was a creative opportunist, that’s for sure! After Andy Warhol graduated from Carnegie Tech in 1949, he migrated to the Big Apple where he became the highest paid illustrator in NY, earning $150,000/year during the 1950s. A starving artist he was not!!! His success in the 50s allowed him to transition from advertiser to pop artist, successfully using consumerism as a subject of art. Hence the Can of Campbell’s Soup! "

 

http://mimisculturalgems.blogspot.com/2009/06/andy-warhol-artist-con-artist-or-little.html

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=NRmjRcSYXlgC&pg=PA11&lpg=PA11&dq=warhol+highest+paid+illustrator&source=bl&ots=JetAbROjF9&sig=taoZzDjITG5GzgqeNXV-oQJEOx4&hl=en&ei=aGsQS666Gc6YlAfw-OihBA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBIQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=warhol%20highest%20paid%20illustrator&f=false

 

It's also a fact that Warhol tried unsucessfully for three years to get a one-man show in his (adopted) hometown NYC but couldn't. The major contemporary galleries weren't biting. His first one-man show was in CA and almost nothing sold. In other words he was a much more successful illustrator than fine artist, at least in the beginning. Just a curious thing for those not familiar with Warhol or that might not know he did indeed draw, long before he screenprinted and farmed most work out to assistants.

 

The Warhols that get the BIG $$$ - like "200 One Dollar Bills" for $44mil and "Green Car Crash (Green Burning Car I)" for $71.7mil are the top iconic Warhold works, are a combination of hand-painting and screening, and are almost 100% pure Warhol (with maybe some help from Gerard Malanga - kind of like having a studio assistant fill blacks on a comic page).

Thanks for posting this. I withheld my comments on the anti-Warhol vitriol earlier, but many of the comments people were making about his artistic skill were just silly or wrong.

 

The fact is that every major artist that I can think of from before the modern era was a very decent technically skilled artist. Picasso, Pollack, Stella, etc. They were all classically trained. Do people really think these guys didn`t know how to draw "realistically"? Only within the last 20-30 years have you had some successful artists who genuinely couldn`t draw or paint "realistically" if their life depended on it.

 

The other fact is that technical skill is hugely overrated. I can take you to many back-alleys in China or Vietnam where very skilled artists are generating knock-offs by the thousands. Since the advent of photography, there is simply no need to create accurate depictions of the world through drawing or painting. What is more important is innovation, vision and the ability to create something that catches the eye, and that`s what 99.9% of all highly skilled artists can`t do. I think very highly of Warhol and admire his ability to find things of interest in the mundane artifacts of everyday life.

 

[vodou]

So does this apply only to Frazetta sales?

 

Or does it apply to all analysis made be people who aren't in the position to participate in the activity which they are analyzing?

 

Does this mean that art agents, gallery curators, and art appraisers should immediately quit their jobs and go to work in the fast food industry?

 

None of them have a million to spend, but each of them are commenting on prices, setting prices, and estimating prices.

 

I am writing an email to ESPN now demanding they fire their sports commentators who aren't also athletes, They have no business talking about sports when they can't play them.

 

I think it's silly to think that educated people, with experience, knowledge and networked contacts, within a given field, could not comment in a meaningful way on any topic. There are consultants and experts in everything from soup to nuts that don't personally have the cash to play the game but that doesn't mean they don't know how it's played.

 

Just saying. (thumbs u

But it's all fun to read, so please each of you do continue forward! (thumbs u

[jimjum12]

When it comes to high end original art....it really is a personal thing. Many people who go there have the resources to buy what they wish without much thought to liquidity. I can only speak for myself, and I have a fairly broad range of tastes when it comes to art, but I would put several Frazetta images at a very high degree desirability. I would NOT prefer a Frazetta over a choice work by Dali', John Biggers, or possibly Van Gogh....but I would rather have a Frazetta than a Monet, Renoir, Degas, Rembrandt, or Da Vinci. I would also probably prefer an N.C. Wyeth over many of the historical icons and he, too, is "just" an illustrator. Let's face it....an illustrator is only an artist whose work has been deemed to have mass appeal. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus) (thumbs u

 

P.S. Death Dealer is fabulous....but would not be my first choice, were I to have the means.