Listing on CAF

[Coach]

I think we agree that the users bear the greater responsibility in ensuring that they comply to policies. But when it comes to ensuring a controlled environment and deterring further violations, I think Bill holds that responsibility. I'm not at all implying that Bill has done a bad job in policing. We see minor "selfish" infractions here and there, but major problems (like conflicts) are rare at the site. I think that is credited to Bill's watch over the site. It's understandable that Bill doesn't have the time to run a tight ship and monitor every user and uploaded image.

 

Users are responsible for their own actions. Bill is responsible for the overall culture on CAF; similar to how the moderators are responsible for the culture on the CGC forums. If users are, in fact, rampantly violating his policies, then I think Bill should do something about it.

 

I see your point and agree with your statements above. Does Bill have a responsibility to enforce the rules? Yes, he does (if he doesn’t, who will?), but in my opinion, why put him in that situation?

 

If I were to go to someone’s house and they have a rule that you don’t bring food and drinks in a particular room and I do it anyway, that would be inconsiderate. If they choose not to enforce their rule, it doesn’t make my actions any less inconsiderate. Just putting them in that situation is inconsiderate or perhaps even selfish. (I just realized this is pretty much what CollectingFool said, sorry for the redundancy)

 

Darren

 

[GotSuperPowers?]

Hey All,

 

I'm a bit late on the party to this one as the last couple of days have been busy busy, but considering I'm the owner of the page that started this thread, I'd like to see that as my invite to offer nothing original to the conversation.

 

As a buyer of art in CAF, once I have a piece of art in my position I do ask the previous owner to take the piece down from CAF if they haven't done so already. To me it makes it look odd for a piece to be in 2 'places' at once. I want to be seen by others as honest and straight, so me having a piece on my gallery and the same piece to also be in Dude Shmoe's, doesn't help me sparkle. That and I want the limelight, dammit!

 

As a seeker in CAF, aside from CAF rules, which clearly not enough people pay attention to, I'd LOVE it if folks are going to post sold or wanted art, that they put that in the title of the piece itself - "WANTED - Big Boobie Comics 69". That way when a piece comes up in a search, you see it's not something you care about straight away.

 

As a seeker of art in dealer sites, sold pieces annoy me. I click on an artists name to see the goodies and find all of the pieces listed long gone. Very frustrating. I don't know if folks are trying to pad out their sites, or brag about what they've sold but it's not something I enjoy encountering.

 

As a seller, both in CAF (personal collection) and at my site (art rep), I take down a piece as soon as cash is received/cleared. If I expect others to play a certain way, I have to play that same way. I remember Mitch I getting knocked for this practice back on the comic art L and thought it ridiculous. It's my site and I'll cry if I want to. Again, if I don't like something as a buyer, I'm not going to do that from the other side of the fence.

 

Well, that's quite possibly my longest post, and attempted contribution to an semi-intelligent conversation. Semi as I'm clearly bringing things done a couple of notches.

 

Cheers

Simon Miller

 

[CollectingFool]

Ok. The site costs a lot of money to operate and Bill works hard to maintain it. I don't disagree with any of those facts, but I also don't see how any of that is relevant to judging any end user's personality.

 

At what point did I describe any individual's personality? I'm saying the act is a selfish act. If that act is all I know about the person they may seem selfish to me but since I don't know that person I'm not going to say their entire personality is selfish. An intelligent person can say a stupid thing. If all anyone ever heard is that one thing they may be perceived as stupid. It doesn't mean that they are.

 

In the end if you know the rules and choose to ignore them you will be perceived as selfish in my eyes and others that think like me. If you care more about having your folder than other people's perceptions then more power to you. That's between you and Bill. Don't complain about how other people see you or interpret your actions. You chose your action, how people perceive you is the consequence.

 

I'm done with this. Like so many other topics people see things different ways and no more good can come out of beating this dead horse. If there is one thing these never ending arguments prove is that your actions and words however insignificant you may think they are shape the perceptions others have of you. If you care about how other people see you, think twice before doing something or saying something in public. And like all other things recently, this thread leads back to Tiger.

 

[buyatari]

Ok. The site costs a lot of money to operate and Bill works hard to maintain it. I don't disagree with any of those facts, but I also don't see how any of that is relevant to judging any end user's personality.

 

At what point did I describe any individual's personality? I'm saying the act is a selfish act. If that act is all I know about the person they may seem selfish to me but since I don't know that person I'm not going to say their entire personality is selfish. An intelligent person can say a stupid thing. If all anyone ever heard is that one thing they may be perceived as stupid. It doesn't mean that they are.

 

In the end if you know the rules and choose to ignore them you will be perceived as selfish in my eyes and others that think like me. If you care more about having your folder than other people's perceptions then more power to you. That's between you and Bill. Don't complain about how other people see you or interpret your actions. You chose your action, how people perceive you is the consequence.

 

I'm done with this. Like so many other topics people see things different ways and no more good can come out of beating this dead horse. If there is one thing these never ending arguments prove is that your actions and words however insignificant you may think they are shape the perceptions others have of you. If you care about how other people see you, think twice before doing something or saying something in public. And like all other things recently, this thread leads back to Tiger.

 

I was glad to see this thread. CAF is a great place. I had a sold folder there myself and took it down after this. Being a rookie I saw other sold folders and just did the same. Sometimes an item I was looking up would only exist on CAF as a SOLD piece and I was able to enjoy the image because it was still there. I didn't know it was a problem.

 

The front page of CAF is full of useful links that all help the art collector but I couldn't find those rules you guys brough up when I looked for them. Even the FAQ didn't mention these guidelines. Not taking anyway away from the website but I'm sure less people would break the rules if they knew what they were.

 

 

 

[rednalsram]

Here it is ( I posted it earlier in this thread).

CAF Terms & conditions

 

You can see it on CAF's sign-up top bar; front page.

 

Ok. The site costs a lot of money to operate and Bill works hard to maintain it. I don't disagree with any of those facts, but I also don't see how any of that is relevant to judging any end user's personality.

 

At what point did I describe any individual's personality? I'm saying the act is a selfish act. If that act is all I know about the person they may seem selfish to me but since I don't know that person I'm not going to say their entire personality is selfish. An intelligent person can say a stupid thing. If all anyone ever heard is that one thing they may be perceived as stupid. It doesn't mean that they are.

 

In the end if you know the rules and choose to ignore them you will be perceived as selfish in my eyes and others that think like me. If you care more about having your folder than other people's perceptions then more power to you. That's between you and Bill. Don't complain about how other people see you or interpret your actions. You chose your action, how people perceive you is the consequence.

 

I'm done with this. Like so many other topics people see things different ways and no more good can come out of beating this dead horse. If there is one thing these never ending arguments prove is that your actions and words however insignificant you may think they are shape the perceptions others have of you. If you care about how other people see you, think twice before doing something or saying something in public. And like all other things recently, this thread leads back to Tiger.

 

I was glad to see this thread. CAF is a great place. I had a sold folder there myself and took it down after this. Being a rookie I saw other sold folders and just did the same. Sometimes an item I was looking up would only exist on CAF as a SOLD piece and I was able to enjoy the image because it was still there. I didn't know it was a problem.

 

The front page of CAF is full of useful links that all help the art collector but I couldn't find those rules you guys brough up when I looked for them. Even the FAQ didn't mention these guidelines. Not taking anyway away from the website but I'm sure less people would break the rules if they knew what they were.

 

 

[Nexus]

Leaving aside the issue of keeping other people's art in one's gallery for a minute...is anyone else besides me surprised at just how few gallery owners have paid memberships? It looks to be about 5% or less. Even if there were no premium services as an incentive, I still would have expected more people would be willing to chip in $25 just to support the site.

 

I know that basic membership is free, and that most folks are casual users. I'm not saying everyone should or needs to pay. I appreciate people just sharing their art (well, mostly:P). I guess I'm just amused when collectors publicly gush about how great CAF is, what a service Bill has provided, yada, yada, yada...but can't bring themselves to spend less than 1/4 the cost of an average con sketch to help support the site.

 

Anyway, to bring it back to topic...if you've got a free membership, then the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

 

[innocuous]

Also late to the discussion here...

 

Valid points, but something else to consider. CAF is well beyond a "personal" site now. It is a business with advertising, affiliate (ebay) and subscription revenue streams. (There may be more than 3 revenue streams, but those are easy to spot.) The policy decisions must take that revenue into account. And, what it looks like the market is saying is that CAF is more than just a site to show off artwork.

 

If this is an issue, it should be dealt with by clarifying and enforcing old policies with some needed new ones. The bright side is the potential for new revenue. For example, all those people with "sold" galleries could be charged extra for the privilege.

[Shemp]

...if you've got a free membership, then the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

Wrong!

 

If you are a member (free or not), the least you can do is follow the rules.

[Nexus]

...if you've got a free membership, then the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

Wrong!

 

If you are a member (free or not), the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

Absolutely. What I was trying to get across is that everyone should follow the rules...but seems to me if you're going to take advantage of the free service, then even more so.

[Bronty]

Leaving aside the issue of keeping other people's art in one's gallery for a minute...is anyone else besides me surprised at just how few gallery owners have paid memberships? It looks to be about 5% or less. Even if there were no premium services as an incentive, I still would have expected more people would be willing to chip in $25 just to support the site.

 

I know that basic membership is free, and that most folks are casual users. I'm not saying everyone should or needs to pay. I appreciate people just sharing their art (well, mostly:P). I guess I'm just amused when collectors publicly gush about how great CAF is, what a service Bill has provided, yada, yada, yada...but can't bring themselves to spend less than 1/4 the cost of an average con sketch to help support the site.

 

Anyway, to bring it back to topic...if you've got a free membership, then the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

 

Fine, you're guilting me into it, I will sign up

 

For my part when I signed up I did not anticipate I'd be using it as much as I do, so just got the free membership. Now that I use it more that part is sort of out of sight out of mind. I suspect I'm not the only one.

[comicartcom]

I've always had a paid membership in CAF as I see that as supporting Bill and the hobby.. However, I get almost no use out of it as I can't take to the time to fgure out what benefits it even gives me.. So I guess it's just an annual gift to Bill for being a good guy and supplying a great art museum for all.

[buyatari]

Here it is ( I posted it earlier in this thread).

CAF Terms & conditions

 

You can see it on CAF's sign-up top bar; front page.

 

 

I don't see it. I don't see a sign-up top bar either. When I go to comicartfans.com I am automaticlly logged in perhaps that is why?

 

Anyway I did do an EDIT-> FIND on the front CAF page and did find a Terms&Conditions link at the very bottom in the smallest print. So it is there but anyone who has the view I have when they go to CAF will never see it.

 

 

 

[rednalsram]

I apologize; you're correct.

 

Just for my satisfaction; did my link bring you and others to the Terms & condition page? Just making sure I did that correctly. Thanks

 

Here it is ( I posted it earlier in this thread).

CAF Terms & conditions

 

You can see it on CAF's sign-up top bar; front page.

 

 

I don't see it. I don't see a sign-up top bar either. When I go to comicartfans.com I am automaticlly logged in perhaps that is why?

 

Anyway I did do an EDIT-> FIND on the front CAF page and did find a Terms&Conditions link at the very bottom in the smallest print. So it is there but anyone who has the view I have when they go to CAF will never see it.

 

 

[Nexus]

Leaving aside the issue of keeping other people's art in one's gallery for a minute...is anyone else besides me surprised at just how few gallery owners have paid memberships? It looks to be about 5% or less. Even if there were no premium services as an incentive, I still would have expected more people would be willing to chip in $25 just to support the site.

 

I know that basic membership is free, and that most folks are casual users. I'm not saying everyone should or needs to pay. I appreciate people just sharing their art (well, mostly:P). I guess I'm just amused when collectors publicly gush about how great CAF is, what a service Bill has provided, yada, yada, yada...but can't bring themselves to spend less than 1/4 the cost of an average con sketch to help support the site.

 

Anyway, to bring it back to topic...if you've got a free membership, then the least you can do is follow the rules.

 

 

Fine, you're guilting me into it, I will sign up

 

 

The extras are worth it. More comprehensive use of Market Data, for one. But like Rich says, even if you don't use them, it's still a nice gesture for Bill and CAF. (thumbs u

[Claudio]

Last night, I went to the page that made me start this thread and saw that he put this on his dearly departed gallery:

 

"IF YOU DON'T HAVE IT, WHY DO YOU POST IT?" one CAF member (whom I'll charitably refrain from naming) recently asked me.

"BECAUSE 1) I USED TO OWN IT, DUH! and 2) I POST WHAT I WANT IN MY CAF GALLERY AS LONG AS I SAY WHAT IT IS."

 

Very charitable of him to refrain from naming me. BTW, I didn't put my question in all caps. So I emailed him this:

 

I only asked because terms and conditions say to only post stuff you currently own or stuff that you have personally produced. That's all. http://www.comicartfans.com/signup.asp

 

He responded with this:

I will gladly remove this gallery once CAF demands that all "Dearly Departed" galleries be cancelled. But it wouldn't be a very popular move. This is a hobby and people are in it for the fun of comic art collecting. As long as I point out that the art appearing in this gallery is SOLD I think I don't break any rules - even if I upload scans of pieces I parted with long ago.

Do feel free to leave comments about the rest of my collection, though!

 

I kinda feel like asking him why he doesn't think he is breaking any rules when the rules are pretty clear but I don't think I am going to get a rational answer...

 

 

[Claudio]

I've always had a paid membership in CAF as I see that as supporting Bill and the hobby.. However, I get almost no use out of it as I can't take to the time to fgure out what benefits it even gives me.. So I guess it's just an annual gift to Bill for being a good guy and supplying a great art museum for all.

 

What about emailed searches? Probably my favorite premium feature...

[Nexus]

I kinda feel like asking him why he doesn't think he is breaking any rules when the rules are pretty clear but I don't think I am going to get a rational answer...

 

Maybe you could ask him what his motivation is for keeping a gallery of art he used to own. That's what I'm curious about. My hunch is that people who do this like to give off the illusion of having a bigger collection than the one they actually have. Rules aside...if everyone kept a "Sold" gallery, the same piece might show up on CAF a dozen times.

[Bronty]

done.

[comicartcom]

I've always had a paid membership in CAF as I see that as supporting Bill and the hobby.. However, I get almost no use out of it as I can't take to the time to fgure out what benefits it even gives me.. So I guess it's just an annual gift to Bill for being a good guy and supplying a great art museum for all.

 

What about emailed searches? Probably my favorite premium feature...

 

Claudio.. I don't even know how to use the classifieds much less emailed searches. Of course, I don't collect art anymore (I'm majorly into posters now) and I just love what I have and the memories of the 1000 pieces or so I used to have. Someday I'll compile a complete list of the pieces I used to own and the very many more I sold never planning to keep at all. The only thing I need to do is reconcile old lists with stats etc that I have. I actually have a scan, photo or stat of almost every piece I ever owned going back 30 years. The pile of stats is about 4 foot tall!!!

 

But to CAF.. one day when an art fan who uses the site very well is at my office, I'll ask him to spend a few hours walking through the entire site. Until then.. Bill can have my $50

 

Rich

[MyNameIsLegion]

hmmmm.

 

I see both sides of this, and I was not aware that Bill had a rule against it, but I'm one of those pesky guys that has a "SOLD/TRADED" gallery, and it includes art that I've sold or traded to people that have posted in this thread. I do this for a couple of reasons:

 

1. as a premium member, I"m essentially "paying" for the space and bandwidth I use, and the discussion of the cost storage and bandwidth as reason not to have SOLD items in your CAF is miniscule. That may have been a factor 10 years ago, but in 2009, storage and bandwidth are dirt cheap. That Bill now lets you post multiple images for one piece of art and there's never been a cap on number of images regular or premium users can post reflects that. And as a premium member, I'm among the 5% that are subsidizing the rest of the freeloaders!

 

2. as a premium member, I'm entitled to sell things on the CAF, and set up my comicartshop space, which is more than I can say for the majority of non-paying members that use the CAF as a sales forum without Bill getting any compensation whatsoever. That's a much more serious offense.

 

3. I maintain a "SOLD" folder as a means advertising the fact that I have indeed sold items on the CAF. In the absence of any kind of feedback system, it (hopefully) gives people some degree of confidence in my ability to conduct an honest sale.

 

4. I keep the pics in the "SOLD" forum so that the new owner can take my scan to use for his gallery- it's happened more than once when I didn't and they asked, and I've asked others to do the same.

 

5. On one occasion, a buyer asked me to remove the image form my SOLD gallery, and I did, no questions asked. If Frey sends me an email and asks me to take down the pics of the art we traded, I'd do it immediately.

 

6. Having a SOLD gallery lets newcomers to CAF know if a particular piece of art even exists at all. Not everything I've sold or traded ends up in the CAF, so there's no record that it ever existed, and I think it's terribly important to maintain some kind of public record of what art does and doesn't exist. I've had people ask me about things I've sold, and if I could put them in touch with the current owner, or contacting the current owner and letting them know someone wants to make them an offer. That sort of things is what fosters community among collectors.

 

Bill's CAF is a tremendous resource, and an ever evolving and improving one, and I'm sure down the road some mechanism will be designed to retain sold items but filter or exclude them from certain kinds of searches or view counts. It's just a matter of design and programming those features. I for one would like to be able to ignore or exclude key words or users from my CAF searches, such as "INQUIRE",