I dropped my soap in GrahamCrackers shower

[oakman29]

This very reason is why I ONLY go to certain dealers such as Harley or Bob Storms.I have heard stories like this before about Graham Crackers,I just manage to avoid these people.Honesty goes along way in my book, Harley and Bob are two of the most stand up guys in the business.Sorry about throwing my two cents into the ring

[fastballspecial]

Well, since someone pointed me in the direction of this thread, I just can't take this anymore.

 

A few months back, I had posted that I found ANOTHER key book in my collection that I suspected was trimmed. "Found" is probably the wrong word. It's a book that's been in my collection for about 7 or 8 years.

 

That book was HOUSE OF SECRETS 92.

 

The reason why I was so upset at the time of that post, was it wasn't that I was deliberately seeking out THAT book in my collection so much, as I wanted to pull some books for Bernie Wrightson and Len Wein to sign for signature series at the upcoming Baltimore show.

 

And I pulled the book, which I honestly hadn't looked at or pulled from the box in many years---and since the time I purchased that book, my eye has gotten much better in detecting certain restoration. Specifically, TRIM.

Mostly because of the horrible experience I had in purchasing major key books at top prices only to find out after grading that they were trimmed.

 

I used to shop quite extensively at a shop in Reisterstown MD. I bought a lot of my books there, mostly modern, but I would also buy some key books if I felt the price was right.

 

Specifically, I had purchased books like Marvel Team Up 1, Amaz. SM 100, HoS 92, Avengers 4, ASM 50---pretty big keys. Books that I wanted both for my personal collection and long term investments. In fact, I remember the conversation I'd had with my wife when debating buying the Avengers #4, of which the shop retailer was asking $1175 during one of his big sales.

My wife had just given birth to our first daughter, and we discussed the book as being something we would invest long term to put toward her college or something like that. And to the store owners credit, at the time I remember him telling me "Are you sure you want to spend that much money? You just had a kid, you should be saving your money."

 

But the book was really nice looking, and I'd had my eye on some of his other keys.

 

Amaz. SM 50, HoS 92, etc.

I can't remember which I bought first, but I do remember within two weeks I picked up the ASM 50 and the Avengers 4.

 

I was pretty excited, these were books that I'd wanted for some time. And they both looked nice, the nicest I'd ever seen.

And I remember also as he was showing me the books, he'd mentioned that he got them from Jamie Graham in a recent deal.

 

So when the ASM 50, Avengers 4 (and there was a third book that I can't remember which at the time)...all three books came back TRIMMED.

And I couldn't believe it.

I called Steve Borock, convinced there was some sort of mistake.

And Steve was very cool about it, very informative and also very sympathetic because (I think) he sees this a lot where people get stiffed like this.

And Steve told me "Rich, I looked those books over twice from top to bottom...I'm really sorry man. Can you get your money back?"

 

I wasn't sure. I mean, I thought I probably could with no problem. I'd been shopping with this guy for some time.

But I did something else first.

I cracked that Avengers 4 out and brought it to the Baltimore show and presented it to Jamie Graham. And Jamie looked at that book like a parent recognizes a long lost child.

He hadn't seen that book in some time...I mean, I didn't send the books off to CGC right away either, I think I had them for 6 months or so prior to sending them in, and then 2 months or so before getting them back. Not sure how long the retailer had them before selling them to me.

But Jamie's eye went RIGHT to that trim and pointed out "Yeah., see...you can spot that trim right here."

And then offered to maybe trade it out to me for one of his overpriced CGC books on the wall. He asked me where I got the book, I told him.

And he said to me (and I quote) "Yeah, thats the problem with that guy. He can't spot restoration. Not like some of us other dealers."

 

I've also heard from other people that don't shop there anymore as well that perhaps he turns a blind eye to it, but that's something else.

 

So I went to this guy up in Reisterstown and presented him with the Avengers, told him what his buddy Jamie Graham had said to me, and that he might want to really reconsider how he does business with him because he CLEARLY knows that YOU can't spot restortation and to me...he's taking advantage of that.

 

So I told him lookit...this book was supposed to be a long term investment for me, and now it's worthless. And that $1175 was a LOT of money for me to spending, and I'd like to know about getting my money back.

 

Well, he tells me that Jamie Graham is coming to town that weekend, and he'd discuss it with him.

I don't know what transpired in that conversation, but it was a month later before he finally told me, "Jamie says send it back to him and he'll refund you your money."

 

NOW...what SHOULD have happened....he should have given me my money back, not make me chase down Jamie Graham. He sold me the book, he should have owned responsibility to it.

And to wrap all this up, 2 months later Jamie DID make good on it.

I told him I didn't want grading fees or anything else, just what I paid for the book.

And I did get my money back.

 

And then a few months later I saw those two dealing books together again, and I thought okay...so none of this matters to either of them, and I won't be buying from either of these guys ever again.

I hear similar stories from other people who "USED" to shop with both retailers and for that reason alone, I can only imagine how much in store business these guys have lost from long term customers that don't shop with them anymore.

It's a small industry and word gets around.

 

To add insult to injury, the Reisterstown retailer had said to me that (after the fact, BTW( he suspected that there were other books in that collection he'd purchased from Jamie that may have been trimmed.

And I asked him "Really? Like what?"

And he gives me this snarky kind of look and says, "Oh...a few."

 

And I can't help but wonder if his mind went to that HoS 92 that I'd purchased from him as well, wondering when/if I may ever discover that book was trimmed too.

 

It never crossed my mind back then, for whatever reason, to go back and check all the other keys in my collection that I'd purchased from him over the years...but then 3 months ago I pull out that HoS 92 and my head explodes.

 

And then in NYC comicon, I had my ASM 100 graded on site, recently signed by Stan and Romita and it came back 7.5 trimmed.

It was all I could do to keep from going over to Jamie Grahams booth and smashing it over his head.

 

But it's like ---okay PROVE IT. PROVE you bought that book from so and so. Prove that book originated from his booth.

Or his shop.

And the reality is, you can't. These are all cash in had sales at shows, unless you're paying credit card, and when I buy my book in a shop, the receipt only says "Comic Book, X $"

No title. No issue number.

 

But I know where it came from.

And it's burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice...I'm telling the whole frackin' community you're a screw.

 

I know there's a lot of other guys out there with similar stories. And I know that there's probably not so many that pop up on the boards like this to share those stories because at the end of the day...they still might not know that they're sitting on dead books. Until, like the origins of this thread, a few years go buy after purchase and they decide to get their book graded.

 

And then this happens.

 

I had pretty much put that whole bad incident behind me until I started to discover that even more comics in my collection are coming back with trim, and it not only leaves a bad taste in your mouth, you feel taken advantage of.

 

Make no mistake Jamie Graham can spot trim, color touch, whatever you want to call your favorite restoration.

If he discloses that or not, I couldn't say.

 

BUT I will say that he DID refund me my $1175 for a book that indirectly came from him, which to be 100% honest, he really had no responsibility to me on that book.

 

He could have said, "I didn't sell you that book, go see your boy in Reisterstown."

 

I say, to the person that started this thread, call Jamie Graham every day, email him every day, until you get some response.

And if you don't get any headway, if your messages continue to be unreturned (I know mine were never returned until I got his personal email---he knew that I was not going to go away).

 

And just don't buy from him ever again. And tell anyone else you know to NOT buy from him either, for those very reasons.

And if you ever suspect that a book you purchase from a dealer may have restoration, ASK that dealer.

 

And if the guy says he doesn't know, then ask him if he'll refund your money on it if it comes back graded.

If a dealer sells you a high grade key book, ask him if he'll put in writing that the book doesn't, to the best of his knowledge, have any restoration.

 

Someone has to hold these guys accountable. Word of mouth travels fast, and with the advent of CGC, it's making it harder for these guys to get away with it. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to that will not buy raw books on Ebay anymore for just that very reason.

 

So there you have it...buyer beware is the lesson learned here.

If you suspect trim, it probably has trim.

If any of those 3 sides look too clean, odds are its trimmed. The worn spine is a dead giveaway.

Doesn't make sense that the other 3 sides would be clean as a whistle and the spine would have wear.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get guys jumping all over my mess about what I've just posted here, but as was in the last thread I started about my HoS 92, it was mostly dealers giving me mess.

 

Be warry, be SMART when you shop.

And if you're spending a lot of money on a book like an Avengers 4 or an FF 48 or 49 or something, get that dealer to back up for you in some way that he'll own up to a refund if that book comes back purple.

If he WONT...then walk away.

 

I truly appreciate the honest story above. I can almost feel his pain and frustration as he wrote it. It has truly changed my viewpoint on SA collecting/slabbing for investment. I honestly dont know how you guys do it. Just locally we have guys known marking and trimming up books so I cant even imagine it on the scale that you guys deal with.

[arexcrooke]

Well, since someone pointed me in the direction of this thread, I just can't take this anymore.

 

A few months back, I had posted that I found ANOTHER key book in my collection that I suspected was trimmed. "Found" is probably the wrong word. It's a book that's been in my collection for about 7 or 8 years.

 

That book was HOUSE OF SECRETS 92.

 

The reason why I was so upset at the time of that post, was it wasn't that I was deliberately seeking out THAT book in my collection so much, as I wanted to pull some books for Bernie Wrightson and Len Wein to sign for signature series at the upcoming Baltimore show.

 

And I pulled the book, which I honestly hadn't looked at or pulled from the box in many years---and since the time I purchased that book, my eye has gotten much better in detecting certain restoration. Specifically, TRIM.

Mostly because of the horrible experience I had in purchasing major key books at top prices only to find out after grading that they were trimmed.

 

I used to shop quite extensively at a shop in Reisterstown MD. I bought a lot of my books there, mostly modern, but I would also buy some key books if I felt the price was right.

 

Specifically, I had purchased books like Marvel Team Up 1, Amaz. SM 100, HoS 92, Avengers 4, ASM 50---pretty big keys. Books that I wanted both for my personal collection and long term investments. In fact, I remember the conversation I'd had with my wife when debating buying the Avengers #4, of which the shop retailer was asking $1175 during one of his big sales.

My wife had just given birth to our first daughter, and we discussed the book as being something we would invest long term to put toward her college or something like that. And to the store owners credit, at the time I remember him telling me "Are you sure you want to spend that much money? You just had a kid, you should be saving your money."

 

But the book was really nice looking, and I'd had my eye on some of his other keys.

 

Amaz. SM 50, HoS 92, etc.

I can't remember which I bought first, but I do remember within two weeks I picked up the ASM 50 and the Avengers 4.

 

I was pretty excited, these were books that I'd wanted for some time. And they both looked nice, the nicest I'd ever seen.

And I remember also as he was showing me the books, he'd mentioned that he got them from Jamie Graham in a recent deal.

 

So when the ASM 50, Avengers 4 (and there was a third book that I can't remember which at the time)...all three books came back TRIMMED.

And I couldn't believe it.

I called Steve Borock, convinced there was some sort of mistake.

And Steve was very cool about it, very informative and also very sympathetic because (I think) he sees this a lot where people get stiffed like this.

And Steve told me "Rich, I looked those books over twice from top to bottom...I'm really sorry man. Can you get your money back?"

 

I wasn't sure. I mean, I thought I probably could with no problem. I'd been shopping with this guy for some time.

But I did something else first.

I cracked that Avengers 4 out and brought it to the Baltimore show and presented it to Jamie Graham. And Jamie looked at that book like a parent recognizes a long lost child.

He hadn't seen that book in some time...I mean, I didn't send the books off to CGC right away either, I think I had them for 6 months or so prior to sending them in, and then 2 months or so before getting them back. Not sure how long the retailer had them before selling them to me.

But Jamie's eye went RIGHT to that trim and pointed out "Yeah., see...you can spot that trim right here."

And then offered to maybe trade it out to me for one of his overpriced CGC books on the wall. He asked me where I got the book, I told him.

And he said to me (and I quote) "Yeah, thats the problem with that guy. He can't spot restoration. Not like some of us other dealers."

 

I've also heard from other people that don't shop there anymore as well that perhaps he turns a blind eye to it, but that's something else.

 

So I went to this guy up in Reisterstown and presented him with the Avengers, told him what his buddy Jamie Graham had said to me, and that he might want to really reconsider how he does business with him because he CLEARLY knows that YOU can't spot restortation and to me...he's taking advantage of that.

 

So I told him lookit...this book was supposed to be a long term investment for me, and now it's worthless. And that $1175 was a LOT of money for me to spending, and I'd like to know about getting my money back.

 

Well, he tells me that Jamie Graham is coming to town that weekend, and he'd discuss it with him.

I don't know what transpired in that conversation, but it was a month later before he finally told me, "Jamie says send it back to him and he'll refund you your money."

 

NOW...what SHOULD have happened....he should have given me my money back, not make me chase down Jamie Graham. He sold me the book, he should have owned responsibility to it.

And to wrap all this up, 2 months later Jamie DID make good on it.

I told him I didn't want grading fees or anything else, just what I paid for the book.

And I did get my money back.

 

And then a few months later I saw those two dealing books together again, and I thought okay...so none of this matters to either of them, and I won't be buying from either of these guys ever again.

I hear similar stories from other people who "USED" to shop with both retailers and for that reason alone, I can only imagine how much in store business these guys have lost from long term customers that don't shop with them anymore.

It's a small industry and word gets around.

 

To add insult to injury, the Reisterstown retailer had said to me that (after the fact, BTW( he suspected that there were other books in that collection he'd purchased from Jamie that may have been trimmed.

And I asked him "Really? Like what?"

And he gives me this snarky kind of look and says, "Oh...a few."

 

And I can't help but wonder if his mind went to that HoS 92 that I'd purchased from him as well, wondering when/if I may ever discover that book was trimmed too.

 

It never crossed my mind back then, for whatever reason, to go back and check all the other keys in my collection that I'd purchased from him over the years...but then 3 months ago I pull out that HoS 92 and my head explodes.

 

And then in NYC comicon, I had my ASM 100 graded on site, recently signed by Stan and Romita and it came back 7.5 trimmed.

It was all I could do to keep from going over to Jamie Grahams booth and smashing it over his head.

 

But it's like ---okay PROVE IT. PROVE you bought that book from so and so. Prove that book originated from his booth.

Or his shop.

And the reality is, you can't. These are all cash in had sales at shows, unless you're paying credit card, and when I buy my book in a shop, the receipt only says "Comic Book, X $"

No title. No issue number.

 

But I know where it came from.

And it's burn me once shame on you. Burn me twice...I'm telling the whole frackin' community you're a screw.

 

I know there's a lot of other guys out there with similar stories. And I know that there's probably not so many that pop up on the boards like this to share those stories because at the end of the day...they still might not know that they're sitting on dead books. Until, like the origins of this thread, a few years go buy after purchase and they decide to get their book graded.

 

And then this happens.

 

I had pretty much put that whole bad incident behind me until I started to discover that even more comics in my collection are coming back with trim, and it not only leaves a bad taste in your mouth, you feel taken advantage of.

 

Make no mistake Jamie Graham can spot trim, color touch, whatever you want to call your favorite restoration.

If he discloses that or not, I couldn't say.

 

BUT I will say that he DID refund me my $1175 for a book that indirectly came from him, which to be 100% honest, he really had no responsibility to me on that book.

 

He could have said, "I didn't sell you that book, go see your boy in Reisterstown."

 

I say, to the person that started this thread, call Jamie Graham every day, email him every day, until you get some response.

And if you don't get any headway, if your messages continue to be unreturned (I know mine were never returned until I got his personal email---he knew that I was not going to go away).

 

And just don't buy from him ever again. And tell anyone else you know to NOT buy from him either, for those very reasons.

And if you ever suspect that a book you purchase from a dealer may have restoration, ASK that dealer.

 

And if the guy says he doesn't know, then ask him if he'll refund your money on it if it comes back graded.

If a dealer sells you a high grade key book, ask him if he'll put in writing that the book doesn't, to the best of his knowledge, have any restoration.

 

Someone has to hold these guys accountable. Word of mouth travels fast, and with the advent of CGC, it's making it harder for these guys to get away with it. I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to that will not buy raw books on Ebay anymore for just that very reason.

 

So there you have it...buyer beware is the lesson learned here.

If you suspect trim, it probably has trim.

If any of those 3 sides look too clean, odds are its trimmed. The worn spine is a dead giveaway.

Doesn't make sense that the other 3 sides would be clean as a whistle and the spine would have wear.

 

I'm sure I'm going to get guys jumping all over my mess about what I've just posted here, but as was in the last thread I started about my HoS 92, it was mostly dealers giving me mess.

 

Be warry, be SMART when you shop.

And if you're spending a lot of money on a book like an Avengers 4 or an FF 48 or 49 or something, get that dealer to back up for you in some way that he'll own up to a refund if that book comes back purple.

If he WONT...then walk away.

 

I truly appreciate the honest story above. I can almost feel his pain and frustration as he wrote it. It has truly changed my viewpoint on SA collecting/slabbing for investment. I honestly dont know how you guys do it. Just locally we have guys known marking and trimming up books so I cant even imagine it on the scale that you guys deal with.

I really wouldnt read too much into Rich's rolling diatribe. Other than lunacy.

When you are a major dealer like Jamie Graham (insert any major dealer) and deal in the volume of books that he does, then trimmed, color touched, restored, etc books are going to slide through the cracks. To accuse him of doing it on purpose and hurting his reputation here is reckless at best.

But, correct me if I am wrong, you got a book from him that was trimmed, had it graded later, and he still gave you credit for it? And yet you want to bash him on here?

That dont feed the bulldog.

 

[BillS25]

It definitely sucks that the book came back with a trimjob. It's will also be sad on the dealers part to not make it whole.

 

When it comes to buying books I have to admit I make certain to ONLY buy them from a dealer with an open ended return policy on restoration if the books are high dollar items at this point. Having been burned before it's simply a matter of adjusting my purchasing practices. It it's a book under $100 from a dealer who doesn't have an open ended return policy on resto it's a live and learn situation for me, I suck up the loss, let them know what happened and never buy from them again if they don't make an attempt to make it right. If the dealer is reputable they will generally make the offer of making the situation right with either a partial refund to compensate for the decrease in value or a full refund. If they do say "So sad, too bad." then they go on my list of never buy from again dealers.

 

One of the best experiences I have ever had is with John Verzyl who provided me with his return policy as "Even if you're not happy with the book after 3 years let me know and you can return it. I don't ever want a customer to not be happy with a book that I sell them." To John it didn't matter whether the issue was resto or just an "I'm just not happy with it." He wants me, his customer, to be happy. This has earned him my return business year after year.

[comicwiz]

 

(2) With restoration of any description, I think any seller worth his salt should have an open-ended full refund policy in place. Errors will understandably occur and the seller should be happy to make those errors good. (thumbs u

 

Man that's just asking to get cornholed IMO.

 

It might happen, but so what?

 

The occasional shafting is probably worth it for the reputation you earn from all of your returning customers. (thumbs u

 

 

 

PS Bob Storms does it and according to him, very rarely does somebody try it on.

 

I have to disagree. I wouldn't even make it accessible information because people will game it. In an ideal world, what would be reasonable is for a seller to disclose an accepted timeframe for refunds for undisclosed restoration, but then even if its in the fine print of a return policy or an eBay description, the only noise they'll ever be hearing is the sound from crickets chirping.

[Foolkiller]

Unfortunately, here's the reality. There are several big name, big time dealers (and not necessarily the ones at issue here) who intentionally sell restored books as unrestored. It happens all the time. Some of these are dealers we know and like from a personal standpoint. I'm not talking about "slipping through the cracks" or they just aren't sure, I'm talking about ones who are told that there is resto on the books and still attempt to sell it as unrestored (I've seen this personally happen and had it happen where I returned books and they were later sold to other parties as unrestored).

 

Then there's dealers who can't spot restoration with any sort of consistency or reliability. Volume is no excuse on big key books. If your Brave and the Bold 28 is restored, you know it if you have any skills whatsoever. There are several major dealers who can't. You could say they are intentionally doing it, but I can't say that in these cases.

 

I also find collectors hiding behind the "I'm not a dealer so I can't tell shield" when I know they have "eagle eyes" when buying a book.

 

Don't think this is going on? Please don't kid yourselves. The only tool I can tell you to arm yourself with is information.

[Rich_Henn]

 

Volume is no excuse on big key books.

 

THANK YOU.

[skypinkblu]

Unfortunately, here's the reality. There are several big name, big time dealers (and not necessarily the ones at issue here) who intentionally sell restored books as unrestored. It happens all the time. Some of these are dealers we know and like from a personal standpoint. I'm not talking about "slipping through the cracks" or they just aren't sure, I'm talking about ones who are told that there is resto on the books and still attempt to sell it as unrestored (I've seen this personally happen and had it happen where I returned books and they were later sold to other parties as unrestored).

 

Then there's dealers who can't spot restoration with any sort of consistency or reliability. Volume is no excuse on big key books. If your Brave and the Bold 28 is restored, you know it if you have any skills whatsoever. There are several major dealers who can't. You could say they are intentionally doing it, but I can't say that in these cases.

 

I also find collectors hiding behind the "I'm not a dealer so I can't tell shield" when I know they have "eagle eyes" when buying a book.

 

Don't think this is going on? Please don't kid yourselves. The only tool I can tell you to arm yourself with is information.

 

Richard Evans and Matt Nelson gave a great seminar in Chicago a few years ago on restoration, it was very helpful.

 

I have a stack of sellers I won't buy from anymore. One of them, didn't want me to count the pages at a show, he held the book in the middle, flipped through them for me (with me watching) and when I got home and opened the book, I found there was a missing coupon he "masked".

 

You make an excellent point Brian. Arming yourself with information is your only tool.

 

Maybe we could talk Richard and Matt and a few of the other dealers like Bob, who DO know what to look for, into contributing to a thread that could be stickied.

[VintageComics]

The resto forum is chock full of stuff like this including a stickied thread that discusses spotting resto.

 

 

[comicwiz]

No argument on the usefulness of this forum, or the discussions providing insight, but their value is often lost in the way threads nest this information.

 

I think its time to repurpose some of the boards "best" in the left menu on public service merit (where Boards Information, Announcements, Grading Companies, etc. are currently found) with quick links and references to topics voted by everyone as musts for newbie's and savvy collectors.

[JohnRobinson-migration]

For those who don't know, which I'm assuming is all of you, I am the co-owner of Graham Crackers Comics and I'm the guy who made the call on not refunding a two year old purchase.

 

I'm fairly shocked by the wide range of responses to this situation, but wanted to publicly clarify how/why I came about my decision, be it right or wrong in each of yours eyes.

 

We try our best to treat customers exactly how we feel we should be treated. I try and respond to e-mails as quickly as humanly possible - we prioritize problems with orders to the top of the 'to do" list and try and be as forthcoming and as honest (without being insulting) with each customer we deal with.

 

We do NOT TRIM comics, nor have we ever. Does a trimmed comic slip past us, absolutely this can happen, can a restored book slip past, yes. If someone ends up getting one from us that was not noted - we will of course allow them to return it within a reasonable amount of time.

 

DAVID OAKLEY purchased an FF #49 from us on eBay listed as VF 8.0 2nd app. Silver Surfer for $100.99 on December 7th, of 2007.

 

I felt 2 years later, after David had tried to sell the comic himself and had no luck and recently got it CGC'ed to see if that would help - it was no longer within any kind of fair statue of limitations. Can you return any items that cost $100 2 years later? You ipod freezes up on you 2 years later will someone take it back? You discover a crack in your Halmiton Star Trek collectors plate that you bought that you never noticed - can you return it for a full refund? Evidently a LOT of you feel the dealers should carry the burden of risk entirely, even if it's for 20 years - they should stand behind any book they sell and hope that each of the customers they deal with is honest.

It's a fair opinion, and I try and do that with any and all of our regular customers.

 

DAVID OKALEY bought 1 comic from me in the past 2 years off of eBay. And he didn't stop buying because he felt he got ripped off on a trimmed book - he only just discovered this 2 years later.

 

I had no way of knowing this was still our book, or as someone else pointed out if he wanted to clean it up himself with the trim job, tried to sell it and that wasn't working out, nor do I have access to eBay listings which may or may not have listed the books as trimmed in the description. Again, most of these are MOST LIKELY not the case. Just as I would hope more people would assume a dealer would MOST LIKELY not intentionally sell a trimmed book and then seemingly delight in his tricking someone into buying that book - yet so many people jump straight to that false assumption.

 

Right or wrong, I was the one that made the call that 2 years was too long to be held responsible and decide you want a refund for a book that you haven't had any luck selling or hasn't increased in value as much as you had hopped.

 

Though If David Oakley would like to exchange it for something else on our site or stores for that dollar amount, we'd be happy to accommodate him.

 

--John Robinson

GRAHAM CRACKERS COMICS

16030 S. Lincoln Highway Suite #4

Plainfield, IL. 60586 USA

(815) 254-3410 <-- You can call and yell at me in person even!

www.grahamcrackers.com

twitter/gccomics

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Foolkiller]

Though If David Oakley would like to exchange it for something else on our site or stores for that dollar amount, we'd be happy to accommodate him.

 

Did you offer this to David as an option when he first emailed or called you? I think this is a reasonable solution, but I'm not sure if you offered to him directly or if it was prompted by this thread.

[arexcrooke]

who is David Oakley?

[Foolkiller]

who is David Oakley?

 

I assume the original poster.

[arexcrooke]

I must have got turned around then, as I thought it was Henn who had a complaint. :shrug:

[Foolkiller]

I must have got turned around then, as I thought it was Henn who had a complaint. :shrug:

 

Henn's complaint went on about a previous purchase. In that instance, it was dealt with directly by Jamie, who, incidentally, did refund Rich's money after a little bit of consternation. That being said, he did get it back.

 

In the story, what's interesting, is that Jamie basically says Marc Nathan is blind as a bat and can't spot resto and Jamie preys on that fact.

 

It's all hearsay of course, and so none of us here really know what Jamie did or didn't say.

[AtlasFan]

For those who don't know, which I'm assuming is all of you, I am the co-owner of Graham Crackers Comics and I'm the guy who made the call on not refunding a two year old purchase.

 

I'm fairly shocked by the wide range of responses to this situation, but wanted to publicly clarify how/why I came about my decision, be it right or wrong in each of yours eyes.

 

We try our best to treat customers exactly how we feel we should be treated. I try and respond to e-mails as quickly as humanly possible - we prioritize problems with orders to the top of the 'to do" list and try and be as forthcoming and as honest (without being insulting) with each customer we deal with.

 

We do NOT TRIM comics, nor have we ever. Does a trimmed comic slip past us, absolutely this can happen, can a restored book slip past, yes. If someone ends up getting one from us that was not noted - we will of course allow them to return it within a reasonable amount of time.

 

DAVID OAKLEY purchased an FF #49 from us on eBay listed as VF 8.0 2nd app. Silver Surfer for $100.99 on December 7th, of 2007.

 

I felt 2 years later, after David had tried to sell the comic himself and had no luck and recently got it CGC'ed to see if that would help - it was no longer within any kind of fair statue of limitations. Can you return any items that cost $100 2 years later? You ipod freezes up on you 2 years later will someone take it back? You discover a crack in your Halmiton Star Trek collectors plate that you bought that you never noticed - can you return it for a full refund? Evidently a LOT of you feel the dealers should carry the burden of risk entirely, even if it's for 20 years - they should stand behind any book they sell and hope that each of the customers they deal with is honest.

It's a fair opinion, and I try and do that with any and all of our regular customers.

 

DAVID OKALEY bought 1 comic from me in the past 2 years off of eBay. And he didn't stop buying because he felt he got ripped off on a trimmed book - he only just discovered this 2 years later.

 

I had no way of knowing this was still our book, or as someone else pointed out if he wanted to clean it up himself with the trim job, tried to sell it and that wasn't working out, nor do I have access to eBay listings which may or may not have listed the books as trimmed in the description. Again, most of these are MOST LIKELY not the case. Just as I would hope more people would assume a dealer would MOST LIKELY not intentionally sell a trimmed book and then seemingly delight in his tricking someone into buying that book - yet so many people jump straight to that false assumption.

 

Right or wrong, I was the one that made the call that 2 years was too long to be held responsible and decide you want a refund for a book that you haven't had any luck selling or hasn't increased in value as much as you had hopped.

 

Though If David Oakley would like to exchange it for something else on our site or stores for that dollar amount, we'd be happy to accommodate him.

 

--John Robinson

GRAHAM CRACKERS COMICS

16030 S. Lincoln Highway Suite #4

Plainfield, IL. 60586 USA

(815) 254-3410 <-- You can call and yell at me in person even!

www.grahamcrackers.com

twitter/gccomics

 

 

 

 

 

 

John,

Your POV is understood...but here is your chance to be magnanimous and rise above the other guys. If you took back his book and returned him the amount he paid...I would guarantee he would come back for more business...as would others who heard about this extraordinary customer service.

 

Food for thought...

Bill

 

[comix4fun]

I must have got turned around then, as I thought it was Henn who had a complaint. :shrug:

 

Henn's complaint went on about a previous purchase. In that instance, it was dealt with directly by Jamie, who, incidentally, did refund Rich's money after a little bit of consternation. That being said, he did get it back.

 

In the story, what's interesting, is that Jamie basically says Marc Nathan is blind as a bat and can't spot resto and Jamie preys on that fact.

 

It's all hearsay of course, and so none of us here really know what Jamie did or didn't say.

 

 

 

Calling it just hearsay is pretty generous too as there were several more colorful colloquialisms that sprang into my mind before "hearsay". I am glad Rich retracted all those statements after rethinking things.

 

I am dubious to believe that Jamie made a blanket statement that he had defrauded Marc Nathan intentionally, and does so repeatedly because of some opinion regarding Marc's abilities to grade and spot resto.

 

We are supposed to believe Jamie made a statement that is basically the confession of a crime about a person he has known for decades (given their standing in the hobby), and that he made this confession to a person he hardly knows other than knowing that bought the book in question from Marc. Then we are supposed to believe that Jamie sends this same person back to Marc, after making this confession, to tell Marc what he said.

 

I couldn't get past the first sentence before the sniff test was failed. None of that makes any sense or is within the bounds of logic. I am banking on a misunderstanding of what was said and what was meant.

 

So I applaud you for using the word "hearsay" it's far more restrained than I could have been given the facts as they were portrayed.

 

Glad Rich got his money back though. It's always good to hear that some folks will take the necessary steps to make things right and it's a ton of cash for anyone to be out. I would not want that for anyone.

 

Best,

Chris

[comicwiz]

Though If David Oakley would like to exchange it for something else on our site or stores for that dollar amount, we'd be happy to accommodate him.

 

Did you offer this to David as an option when he first emailed or called you? I think this is a reasonable solution, but I'm not sure if you offered to him directly or if it was prompted by this thread.

 

Regardless of whether this thread spurred it, I think "reasonable" is putting it mildly, and accepting an exchange after two years is in "extremely gracious" territory.

[Shootydog]

Stories like this just make we want to get out of the hobby entirely and move on to something else.

 

 

sigh.